Go Back  RCU Forums > RC Helicopters > RC Helicopter Beginners Forum
Reload this Page >

First flight a success!!! Tilts to the right question?

RC Helicopter Beginners Forum If you are a beginner or "newbie" to RC heli's feel free to post your questions right here in the rc heli beginner forum.

First flight a success!!! Tilts to the right question?

Reply

Old 08-30-2002, 04:19 PM
  #1  
shawnkappner
Senior Member
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (40)
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Maineville, OH
Posts: 107
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default First flight a success!!! Tilts to the right question?

I flew. It wasn't pretty at first but I flew and actually hovered 1-3 feet off the ground for over a minute. After probably 50 hours of reading building and tinkering I did it and it was very gratifying. I felt like I should be smoking a cigarette after the flight. I did this almost completely on my own. No simulators or seasoned flyers to help. Just me in my back yard. I wanted to see if a fixed wing flyer could make the transition on his own. I wouldn't necessarily recommend not using a sim and I will definitely be getting help (whether I want it or not) from my fellow club members. I did make a 15 minute phone call to Kurt at Heli-Proz to help with the gyro set up. That dude knows his helis!

I have the JR venture with and OS 32 and a futaba 401 gyro with JR 531 throttle and 517s for the rest. Gain is set at 85% and may go a little higher. Some questions for anyone:

1) I have the hula hoop training gear. While hovering/skating it always wanted to lean to the right. It didn't really fly to the right, it just kinda of leaned that way. I put about 5 ounces of weight on the left side of the hoop to level it out a little. Is this something that will be able to be trimmed out later and is putting a little weight on the high side of the hoop an OK fix?

2) After the hula hoop comes off, how much will the flight performance improve?

Note: Warning! This is only my opinion and if not used properly could be dangerous. I built the run up stand just like the one in Ray's heli-manual. Wow! That thing works great. You can stand right underneath your heli (wear a helmit!!!) with a plane tach and set your pitch and throttle curves, high and low needles, check tracking and get a closeup view of everything. I know there are folks that would disagree with using one but I think if used in a safe manner is a VERY usful tool.

I can't wait till my next flights!!!!
shawnkappner is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2002, 04:21 PM
  #2  
Furyflyer2
My Feedback: (117)
 
Furyflyer2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: middlesex, NJ
Posts: 2,677
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default First flight a success!!! Tilts to the right question?

Leaning to the right is normal it's due to the torque generated by the blades.
Furyflyer2 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2002, 07:15 PM
  #3  
RS2K
Senior Member
My Feedback: (8)
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Wichita, KS
Posts: 1,241
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default First flight a success!!! Tilts to the right question?

You don't want any extra weight on there. Take that weight off. The leaning is called translating tendency, it is caused by the tail rotor blade acting like a propeller and blowing air to the left, the reason it does swing left is because of the main rotor torque. This extra power has to go somewhere so the heli wants to go right; you stop it from going right by tilting it a little. ALL helis with a tail rotor do this. Look for this on hovering helicopters on TV next time.
RS2K is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2002, 07:17 PM
  #4  
RS2K
Senior Member
My Feedback: (8)
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Wichita, KS
Posts: 1,241
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default First flight a success!!! Tilts to the right question?

Sorry in a hurry, but the heli will be a lot more "peppier" without the hoop..... IT LOOKS SMALLER, TOO! LOL, start looking at the heli not the blades or training gear when flying.
RS2K is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2002, 07:24 PM
  #5  
Furyflyer2
My Feedback: (117)
 
Furyflyer2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: middlesex, NJ
Posts: 2,677
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default First flight a success!!! Tilts to the right question?

The tail rotor has nothing to do with the heli leaning to the right. If the tail did cause the leaning then every time I moved the rudder in a different direction the heli would tilt in the other direction. It caused by torque from the main blades, not the little 8" tail blades.
Furyflyer2 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2002, 11:49 PM
  #6  
RS2K
Senior Member
My Feedback: (8)
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Wichita, KS
Posts: 1,241
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default First flight a success!!! Tilts to the right question?

It caused by the thrust from the tail rotor, that thrust cancels out the torque from the main blades, the by product is thrust which causes motion. Check out rays heli manual or search the net for translating tendency. It's physics.

Actually the tail rotor does not cause the leaning, you do. Make a heli completly level and it will go right be cauce of the thrust. That's why tandom main rotors do not have translating tendency, no tail rotor.

Oh and two things, first of all a little 8 inch prop on a plane sure does a lot! second of all the reason you heli doesn't drift when you input a rudder command is because it is putting force about 2 feet from the center of mass and there is nothing to provide the same amount of force 2 feet in front of the heli so your heli rotates instead of drifts. The reason a heli drifts is because the there is just enough force from the TR to cancel out the torque but the force still has to go somewhere. Energy just can't disaapear, the reason it tilts is to cause a sort of lateral acceleration... Like when you go up a hill in a car it takes more power to get the same amount of acceleration... if the hill is big enough and taking out the idea of squeeling wheels the car will just sit there burning up the clutch, helis work in fluid so there is no mechanical clutch system attaching the blades to the air so that's why it tilts.

Sorry to rant.

No tone Disclaimer: (just in case) Just want to tell you I mean no offence, I just want to explain it. You can't tell my tone of voice in this post but it is informative only. In other words this is not a flame.
RS2K is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2002, 02:30 PM
  #7  
flmgrip
Senior Member
My Feedback: (2)
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: irvine, CA
Posts: 1,051
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default First flight a success!!! Tilts to the right question?

furyflyer, can't believe you didn't know this... RS2K is absolutely right... heli want's to left because the tail is pushing that way, so tilt to the right and you are in a stable hover...

MORE IMPORTANT: if i would ever see you put a heli on a test stand (or anybody else) i would cut of your b.... and hang them on the tips of the heliblades !!! this is absolutely unnecessary and extremely dangerous !!!

there is all this ranting going on about safety here, safety there but if a beginner does something stupid like that... NOBODY SAYS ANYTHING... so all you safety freaks... speak up !!! this is where WE CAN MAKE a difference, in educating the newcomer the RIGHT WAY...
flmgrip is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2002, 03:19 PM
  #8  
Furyflyer2
My Feedback: (117)
 
Furyflyer2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: middlesex, NJ
Posts: 2,677
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default First flight a success!!! Tilts to the right question?

Thank God for question and answer books. I guess I have to brush up on my physics. I can't know everything , but I know a hell of a lot. The run up test stand is totally not necessary and like it's already been said, is Very Dangerous . One piece of advice the Ray's manual say's, that should not be in their.
Furyflyer2 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2002, 04:18 PM
  #9  
RS2K
Senior Member
My Feedback: (8)
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Wichita, KS
Posts: 1,241
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default First flight a success!!! Tilts to the right question?

Woah, missed that part. Yes, I agree, that is a VERY bad idea!! All you have to do is get comfertable with the idea of it and raise your hand up a little to far and WHAP, the heli explodes along with your hand, and of course probably a few other parts...

BAD IDEA.
RS2K is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2002, 02:06 AM
  #10  
shawnkappner
Senior Member
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (40)
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Maineville, OH
Posts: 107
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default Test Stand

Gentleman, let me start off by saying I respect all of your opinions especially when it comes to safety. I have been flying helis for a total of 3 days now so I am a heli newbie. I have been flying fixed wing aircraft for 17 years without a single mishap (knock on something hard). I can say with confidence that heli flying and fixed wing flying are inherently dangerous and you must use caution at all times to minimize risk. Now here is where many of us will differ. Remember this is my opinion... Using a test stand to trim and tune your model is SAFER than doing it without one. Now you know I'm crazy :spinnyeye

As I mentioned earlier you cannot eliminate risk but you can minimize it where it makes sense to. I believe you can eliminate some risk by using a test stand. If you have a sturdy ladder and your heli is securely mounted on a base which is bolted to the ladder you have a very stable set up. When you trim a plane or heli you need to MENTALLY focus on two things and they are SAFETY and completing the task at hand. You shouldn't have to use precious concentration on flying. With a test stand you don't have to focus on flying while checking for various attributes that are occurring DURING FLIGHT. A stand lets you MENTALLY focus 100% of your attention on SAFETY and getting the heli trimmed out right THE FIRST TIME. Then when the trimming is done you can focus 100% on the even more dangerous and more crazy thing that we do for fun... FLY. I will admit I am not an expert on stress on heli parts but I know what I read in Ray's Manual and I think he knows what he's talking about when he says that the stress put on a heli while on a stand is a non-issue.

I believe that test stand is an incredible tool that is very simple to make and to use. If used properly can be safer than trying to trim a model without one. It sure did the job for this newbie. Please don't hate me you guys are great to listen to.

Shawn
shawnkappner is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2002, 02:34 AM
  #11  
N71505
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Mpls Minnesota
Posts: 75
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default First flight a success!!! Tilts to the right question?

I tried to get a Nexus set up while attatched to the ground ... didn't know any other way, I had never flown it, nor did I know how to fly it. Anyway, one of the control links broke during this "controlled" experiment, I thought the whole thing was going to come unglued! I for one will not try it again.
N71505 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2002, 02:48 AM
  #12  
shawnkappner
Senior Member
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (40)
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Maineville, OH
Posts: 107
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default Any test stand owners out there...

I would love to here some comments from folks that actually have a stand that was properly built and get their thoughts. Maybe on a different thread???

I can see where strapping a heli on the ground would definitely have its limitations and be more dangerous than using a test stand. Again - my opinion.
shawnkappner is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2002, 04:33 AM
  #13  
flmgrip
Senior Member
My Feedback: (2)
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: irvine, CA
Posts: 1,051
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default First flight a success!!! Tilts to the right question?

shawnkappner, depending on how you use your test stand you will put a tremendous force on it and really stress the entire mechanics.
now you can not trim the heli on a test stand. all you can do is adjust the engine and the blade tracking.

blade tracking can be done (at least close enough for starters) without ever actually "taking off". so no safety hazard without your test stand.
engine tuning, has do be done anywhere under the proper load and not strapped onto a ladder. this again can be done safe and easily on the ground. hover - ;and - adjust needle - hover - land - adjust needle - full climb-out etc.
now the fact that you come form airplanes explains why you would ever even think about it... and please do not be insulted. there is thousands of heli pilots which started form scratch, never ran in the engine on a tune in stand and never used a "ladder test stand". and we all made it very safely and without crashing...
so please take the advice (as a 3 day "experienced" heli pilot) and never use any device like that again or ever do recommend it to some one else. IT IS EXTREMELY DANGEROUS, UNSAFE AND COMPLETELY UNNECESSARY !!!!!!!!!

end of discussion...

thank and PLEASE BE SAFE AND USE COMMON SENSE.
flmgrip is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2002, 09:53 AM
  #14  
Scotty740
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Nashport, OH
Posts: 645
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default First flight a success!!! Tilts to the right question?

I built a test stand for use at the field a few years ago. The results from it were not good. Have you ever noticed how a heli will shake when spooling up while the blades find their position? Well I thought the machine that I had tied down to it was going to tear it's self apart on the stand. While it is sitting on the ground it is free to move around and dissipate that energy.

I was lucky and only bent the spindle in that experiment. I have since heard of others that have had the same results. I will not use a stand again and would highly recommend against it. There is a lot of energy stored up in a 4' rotor disk spinning at 1700+ RPM.

If anything anymore I use a set of head loaders to run the machine up to check for radio problems and to "pre tune" the engine to get the needle settings in the ball park. All the final adjusting and tuning is done in the air.

Setting pitch and throttle curves on the stand will not be correct as things change a lot when in flight. Remember that the heli is moving through the air then and settings will be quite a bit different than when the heli is sitting static.
Scotty740 is offline  
Reply With Quote

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service