helibutt

I am a beginner and I've been practicing with RealFlight G3.5 in the past few months, and finally considering to purchase a heli for the first time. Is a Trex 600 a bad choice for a beginner as a trainer considering the startup & maintenance costs? Would you instead recommend a Raptor 50 gas, or a smaller Trex 450 electric? The Trex 450 is smaller, therefore more unstable though overall seems to cost less than Trex 600 to start & maintain, but I'm not sure if it's a good first timer heli for learning to fly. I have a decent size park behind the house, so with an electric heli, I could practice every day after work without driving to a flying field 25 miles away. With a gas heli, I could only practice to fly weekends. Thanks much for your input in advance.

neweheliflyer

I think the Trex 450se is better for you. Or you can consider the Belt CP ([link=http://www.china-magic3.com/picture.php?cat=58&image_id=501]pic[/link]) or King 2 ([link=http://www.china-magic3.com/category.php?cat=46]pic[/link])

helibutt

Neweheliflyer, could u tell me why Trex 450 se is better than Trex 600? I've heard a bigger heli is more stable and a better learner. So you don't think there's nothing wrong with going with an electric heli instead of a gas heli (such as Raptor 50)?

VinceHerman

Your sim practice will help you no matter which heli you choose.

I think that the T-Rex 600 is entirely usable as a beginner heli. Great stability. Known good behavior.
Likewise, a nitro 50 can be a good beginner heli.

But with either of these large helis, I would be much happier if you had the help of experienced heli pilots. If a setup issue is done wrong, the results will be catastrophic.
If you do have access to a club, and the budget requirements of the T-Rex 600 are not a problem, I think that you will be quite happy starting with the 600.

Also good would be the T-Rex 450. I would recommend the SE V2 if you are considering this size heli. While a crash with the 450 will still twist shafts and shatter blades, most of my crashes with this heli were in the $20 range to repair.

Not knocking the advice of newheliflyer above, but in my opinion, I think that the T-Rex 450 is the smallest heli that should be considered for an outdoor model.

Oh, just a note - with either a 450 sized or a 600 sized heli, flying at the park is only an option if there are no other visitors nearby. I have to keep a constant scan for kids on bikes when I fly, and as soon as kids start showing up for football/soccer/baseball practice, it is time to leave.

helibutt

VinceHerman, thank you. I keep hearing the name of T-rex 450, so it must be a nice heli (though my ignorance tells me it looks small). I do understand your advice on the smallest size heli being a 450 class to fly outdoor. I've heard generally bigger helis are more stable than the smallers. That's why I am considering a T-rex 600 instead of a T-rex 450. Does Trex-600 cost significantly more than Trex 450 for a same type of repair? If the regular maintenance & fixing costs are much greater in the 600, then it seems that I should start with a 450 instead of a 600. I am aware of safety at a park with kids and other people.

BarracudaHockey

My Feedback: (11)

The 450 is much more stable than the micro offerings like the Axe, Blade CP etc.

Its not a 600 size but in calm air they are pretty comparable. Plus its easy to fly in a park (given safety considerations) so you will get more stick time which is critical to learning. They are also dirt cheap to fix. A pack of 4 spindles is 9 bucks or something like that.

helibutt

Thank you, Barracudahockey. Everybody here seems to recommend me a T-rex 450. I like the idea that it doesn't cost much to fix when I break a T-rex 450. I guess starting with an electric helicopter for the first time is ok, as opposed to starting with a gas heli, according to you folks. I also like the idea a smaller heli is safter at the park. If it's a gas heli, I know I have to drive all the way to a flying field to practice, 25 miles away, that means I can't fly on weekdays.

[]TEX[]

I agree, the start up cost and repair cost make the TRex 450 an excellent beginner heli.

Good luck!

heli_Rod

The T-Rex is an excellent heli. I love mine and they fly soooooooo much better than the smaller blades, Axe...etc. I do like bigger helis bacause they handle wind better and are easier to see.

The T-Rex 600 is a super nice heli, however if you choose the electric version, be aware of battery costs and the cost of replacement if damaged in a crash.....they are not cheap. The T-Rex 600 nitro is an excellent 50 size nitro heli. It is capable of anything you will ask of it. I think the T-Rex 600 will soon be the standard heli of choice. I can see it nudging the Raptor out.

If you get a chance to see the different helis in flight, ask the pilots their opinions. They may be able to provide a little insight to aide your selection.

Rod

helibutt

Rod, is your Trex a 450 or 600? Many people here say Trex 600 costs us a bit to fix after a crash than a Trex 450, and I understand Trex 600 often requires a replacement of the battery. How much would you say the average fixing cost per average crash is for Trex 600? I know it's a generalization, but VinceHerman in this discussion says it cost an average of $20 to fix a Trex 450 per crash. Are you saying a crash of Trex 600 involves a battery replacement often but a crash of Trex 450 does not? I wonder why. The people here mention T-rex 600 electric version ends up costing more than the Trex 600 gas version after crashes. I've heard the batteries for the Trex 600 class helis are significantly more expensive than the ones for Trex 450. How much more?

AirmanBob

My Feedback: (14)

Well the T-Rex 450 would be a very good choice and after you
learn to flly it really good you can sell it here on the forums and
get most of you money back out of it.

No matter which way you go I think you should consider the
FMA Co-Pilot. When things go wrong, just let go of the right
stick and the heli will recover to straight and level flight, all by
its self.

Go to the beginners forum and read the posts about them.

Go to thier web site and check them out: http://www.fmadirect.com/

You can download thier manuals and read up on them.

I have one coming in the mail. I want it just for peace of mind. Oh,
and you can turn them off and on while flying in case you think you
can fly ok without it. It will save you BIG bucks.

115$ for the CCPM model. Very advanced technology....

Just me two cents worth..

Bob

[]TEX[]

THe 600 battery is aroung $150 where the 450 pack is about $75. THe 600 battery is roughly the size of a brick and heavy.

Expect a 600 crash to excede $150 in repairs in cluding blades where a 450 would cost more like $25-50 including blades. Thes eare high estimtes.

helibutt

Airmanbob, wow I haven't heard of this FMA co-pilot thing. That sounds interesting and cool. I have to read more about this thing. Thanks for your input.

Tex, then you are saying T-rex 600 pretty much costs twice as much as a Trex 450 to maintain. I am not sure if I want to or could spend $150 every time I crash a T-rex 600, maybe that'll keep me from flying if something major happens as I try to fly regularly. Again T-rex 450 sounds reasonable to fix up.

According to you all, the T-rex 450 sounds like the candidate. I just got back from a book store with 5 used magazines...they are all saying good things about T-rex 450. I don't see much about T-rex 600 in the magazines.

heli_Rod

My T-Rex is the 450 SE V2. The 450 is less expensive to repair as is buying batteries ccompared to the 600. The 450 flies almost as well as the 600, but is a little more affected by winds and is smaller, therefore harder to see in forward flight. You will be amazed how fast that little bugger can go....LOL! I'm happy with mine.

Everything is relative to something....bigger, better, faster, more agile = how much do you want to spend.. etc.? Align makes a super heli that is a pleasure to put together, whether it's the 450 or 600. You can't go wrong with either.

Remember that you should have at least two batteries. It will take the better part of an hour to charge a battery. If you only have one, you're going to be waiting a lot to fly! $75 for the 450 compared up to $300 for a 600 battery......if money is an issue, then it's a no-brainer here.

Good luck, Rod

helibutt

Rod, there are a few different versions of Trex 450s available with the SE V2 that you have at the top. For a beginner like myself who'll crash regularly, should I get a very base model, then start replacing with the upgrade parts every time I crash? Or would I be better off by getting a SE v2 at the beginning? I'm really neutral on the selection of my first heli, and seeking for whatever opinions available. I'd like to follow the most logical advice given to me. Please advise. Again thanks much.

helibutt

Also if there's a good reason for me to go for a Raptor 50 (gas) or a T-rex 600 (electric), I'd consider any, but so far the consensus here points to t T-rex 450. Also please if you could mention specific recommended radio model, servos, gyro, batteries and all necessary parts, I'd appreciate that. (I'm thinking of a 2.4MHz Spread Spectrum radio system, any recommendation?) By the way how many servos do we need to fly a heli? I know it's a laugh, I am that beginner (but I fly a heli in RealFlight G3.5 decent)

VinceHerman

As far as which 450 model to recommend, I strongly prefer the SE V2. As someone who has worked with many, many different models, from the old 450x, xl, se, sev2 and some aftermarket frames, I know how valuable the improvements are that Align has consistently been putting into their product. Each upgrade represents a whole series of changes that make the heli behave better.
SE V2
If this is the model you get, I recommend these componnents:
3x Hitec HS65mg servos for cyclic
Futaba gy401 gyro
Tail servo can be another HS65 if your budget is tight, or a Futaba 9650 if your budget is larger (or the JR equivalent to the 9650)
The stock ESC and motor are fine.
For batteries, I like ThunderPower. Something in the 2100mAh range.

As for a 50 nitro vs the 600, you point out the biggest reason to choose one over the other. You will get much more stick time with the electric. How often would you pack everything up to go to the field with a nitro? Oh, even with a 600, it would be a good idea to go out there and fly with others occasionally, especially at the start. But the 600 gets hovered in the back yard and flown in the park.
If you go with either a 50 nitro or the T-Rex 600, let me know and I can get a recommendation for a decent set of components.

For clarity, I should point out who in my family has which helis.
Brother #1 has a FP Piccolo, T-Rex 450x, 2x Hirobo Shuttle 30 and a Hirobo Evo Sceadu 50
Brother #2 has a FP Piccolo, T-Rex 450se v2, a T-Rex 600 and a Hirobo Evo Sceadu 50
I have a FP Piccolo and a T-Rex 450x that has an after market frame with an SE head.

heli_Rod

While my 450 SE V2 is the top of the line T-Rex, all that bling isn't really needed or even desirable if you are just starting out. The metal parts look cool, are strong and resist flexing, but the downside is when you DO have an incident, all that energy is transmitted through the parts until it finds the weak link and breaks something, which might not be the cheapest partr that would have broken with plastic. The plastic parts are very durable and you will find it cheaper to repair. The metal parts look cool, but as a beginner, you won't even notice the difference in performance than with the plastic parts. Save your money for spare parts and add the upgrades as you become more proficient.

I have the Spektrum AR6000 receiver in my T-Rex. I'm using (3) JR DS285's on the CCPM (cyclic/collective) and (1) JR DS3400G on the tail rotor. I started out using an E-Flite G-90 heading hold gyro, but found it wasn't stable enough and switched to a Futaba 401 gyro. I use the 401 in most of my heli's and it is and excellent gyro for the money. It will also be usable in larger helis when you decide to do so.

My T-Rex came with about everything I needed, such as Align 450XL motor, Align 22C 11.1V 2100 mAh LI-PO battery, Align RCE-BL35X ECS. I also use a HRPoly X Visual/Audio Lipo Low Voltage Warning Device. It alerts me when the battery is low. LI-PO's won't take abuse. overcharging or running them too low will permantly damage them.

I think that about covers it. If you need more information, just ask!

Rod

VinceHerman

Rod,
First, don't think I am trying to bust your chops. You have a lot of good advice, and I agree with almost everything of yours I have read.
There is one small area where I would like to offer a different view from your description. Not a critical difference, but...

The last part of that is where my opinion differs from yours. I think that the aluminum parts DO lead to desirable behavior for a beginner. Simply swapping out the entire 450x mast and putting on a SE (v1) mast made a big difference in how my heli behaved. The cyclic response was cleaned up substantially. My heli was not behaving badly before, but I could definitely feel the improvement.

I do agree that the plastic pieces absorb impact energy and prevent damage elsewhere in the system in a crash.
I do agree that they are cheaper to repair.
I even agree that your description of starting with a more affordable model and upgrading as you get better is a valid method.
I am a bit gray on the beginner not noticing the difference. Maybe yes, maybe no, but I do think that the beginner would benefit from the performance difference, whether they knew it was there or not.


Like I said, I think this is a small, non-critical difference. I just wanted to point out a different view.
Vince

helibutt

VinceHerman, I appreciate much for being specific. Your famiy members having these 450s, it must be a good model. I'll read and study more about what you have mentioned. Thank you.

Could you mention a good 2.4GHz Spread Spectrum transmitter & receiver set to recommend? Some suggested to me if I'm getting a radio system now, get a 2.4GHz Spread Spectrum system, which is more secure & safer when I fly in a smaller park, plus I don't have to worry about interference when I get out to a flying field. Last weekend I visited a flying field, people were waiting in line to fly.

Additionally this is again a dorky question, what does the number on the batteries mean such as in "2100mAh" or "3500mAh"? If the number is bigger, does that mean you could fly longer, or are the higher numbered batteries for bigger motors?

Thanks for putting up with my dim wit questions. Wow now Rod you again posted for me. I'm gonna read yours. Thanks VinceHerman and Rod. This is a lot of info to digest. This forum is good.

BarracudaHockey

My Feedback: (11)

The Trex users 2100 size batteries. True the more Mah the longer you can fly but suffering a weight penalty also shortens flight times. I really like the Flight Power EVO 25 2170 3s packs along with the EVO LITE 2500mah packs. The evo light pack weighs only a few grams more and lasts a bit longer.

The DX7 is a great and versitle radio. If I could afford the cash I'd have an x9303 right now.

badazzbusa

My Feedback: (1)

I've had a 450xl and now I have 2 450se V-2s. I agree with Vince that the V-2 flys alot better and feels more stable. With the motor and ESC it really isn't a bad deal because we all know that we'd spend the money for the bling sooner or later. They hold up well in a crash, I don't think you can bend that new spindle, I've tried. Fly it with the pro wood blades and that will keep crash cost down, those blades fly really well for the cost. Both mine have the electronics that Vince recommended, I would definitly put a 9650 on the tail now or you will only need to upgrade later.

[]TEX[]

Your question about the Raptors:

I have a Helimax 450 and bought a Raptor Titan. It's a LOT more complex to set up, but with patience you can get all the info you need to set it up on the net or in the manual.

If you are considdering a nitro the Raptor series is a good starting point. Crash kits for the 50 start at $30, not including blades so you are back up to about $100 if you crash. The Raptor or any 50 class and up heli, is very stable. The "out of the box" Raptor Titan is good for a beginner and then can be upgraded as your experience progresses. Just because it's a nitro doesn't mean you can't fly at the park, I do it a lot when it's empty and I don't want to drive to the field.

It's still going to cost you more than the 450 quite a bit. To set up a 50 class heli properly you are lookine at 1000-1500 bucks. On the other hand you'll be keeping it for a LONG time where you may grow out of the 450 quickly depending on how fast you learn.

Since I have gotten my Titan, the 450 just collects dust. It doesn't perform nearly as well as my Raptor.

Someone said that you'll have more flying time with the 600, I disagree. While you are waiting an hour to charge you batteries. I can fly 5 more times in that period. Just refuel and go.

I was told by many to not even get the 450 and just go straight to a 50 class heli, but I was ignorant and did it anyway. Looking back, I should have just bought the Titan right from the beginning.

Here is Barracuda's review on the Titan.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/a...article_id=836

There is also a link in that review to Part 2 which includes upgrading.

Another great informational site is: http://www.raptortechnique.com/

Just some food for thought. Don't be afraid of nitro helis, they may seem overwhelming at first, but quickly learned.

helibutt

BarracudaHockey, ok I understood the batteries. If I go for an electric heli, I'll probably get at least 3 batteries. 25 years ago I was into RC electric cars. Back then RC heli was a very expensive hobby and I was only dreaming and drolling over RC helis without the means to own ones. Back then we started seeing rudimentary electric helis with very limited abilities for a very steep cost. All helis back then were virtually nitro powered. Anyhow what grandpa helibutt is saying is I know how many batteries we want to carry (cause we run out of them after a few rounds of operations) Geez 25 years ago there were no lipo batteries, no brushless motor, so no ESC, no digital radio systems, etc. I need to relearn the new electric technologies, but I think that's partly why I feel significantly more comforbable with electric helis over nitro helis. Thank you.

helibutt

Badazzbusa, ok then I'm going for the SE V2 if there's really merits in getting a step up. I mean it the difference is only a few hundreds $$$, by the time I crash a few times and replaces the parts, it must ad up to the cost difference if I start with a base model. If SE V2 flys better and holds up a crash better, maybe that alone is worth considering getting an SE V2 instead of the base model.

TEX, dang it now I feel like getting a Raptor 50 gas. Maybe I'll get both Trex 450 and Raptor 50, and crash them both, how's that? I see a real personal benefits of getting a Trex 450 SE V2, which is the ability that I could fly at a park behind my house after work on weekdays. I can't fly Raptor nitro unless I drive 25 miles out to the flying field. So I could only fly the Raptor over weekends. This translates to less time in actual flying as practice & only the simulator practice on weekdays if I get a Titan......I don't think I can sleep tonight. Ideally though I should probably have both electric 450 and gas Raptor. They handle differently for their sizes and power. I could do an electric on weekdays, then a real gas one at a flying field on weekends. Thank you for your input, TEX. [&o][&o][&o]