kodak_jack

I have all but the foam and the pipe flange done. I think you have to keep adjusting how much slop is in the top plate that the heli sits on because if it's too loose, it'll never right itself, it stays flopped over. I'll have to experiment with it. Right now, I have the top piece and the dowel in a vise - no base yet, although it's cut out already. I had 18" of 3/4 pipe instead of 2 ft. I had 3/8" wood for a base, not 3/4", but I'll see how it goes.
Are you responding to me about the hover?

kodak_jack

Me again. I built the top of this trainer ( the top plate attached to a dowel), twice actually. It wants to flop around all over the place and not level out like you would with a hover. When it flops over, it's an extreme version of what it might do in flight. I had to switch from 3/8" thick material to 1/4" for the top piece. I also had to cut it down to minimal dimensions so it wasn't too heavy. I think if he wanted people to learn on it, he should have somehow provided a set of drawings, even if we had to pay for them. I think you have to start out with the thing flat and level and then work with it because otherwise, it's next to impossible to right it. I can understand how the guy in the second video felt. The thing is flopped over and Dave keeps telling him to do things with it. I have to admit that in the video, the heli had a lot of power and it performed as it should. Maybe the HBFP is too wimpy for that kind of thing. He had it lifting up at the top on the screw that has it attached to the dowel and then went further to have it raise up on the dowel and pull the dowel up out of the pipe. I don't see that much lift. I'm just working with the dowel in a vise with the top plate attached by a screw in a sloppy hole. I left about 3/8" of screw sticking up after it was tightened down on the dowel. I used a 1/4" screw in a 3/8" hole. If you have too much screw sticking up, it'll flop to the side or the front or the rear so much I don't know if it would ever have a chance of righting itself. Again, maybe my battery isn't charged enough or maybe the heli isn't ballsy enough. I'm also confused about how he holds his down. It looks as if he just used rubber bands. If you do that and it's flopping all over the place, you can forget the center of gravity. It's moving all over the place too. It's kind of scary having this thing sitting there on a stick wondering if something is going to let go and have it come right at you!
Here's what I did:
Top plate is 1/4" X 2" X 6". Draw lines diagonally, from corner to corner, to find the center of the piece. Drill a 3/8" hole to accommodate a 1/4" lag screw. I had one that did not have threads about 1" down from the head.
The dowel I had laying around is 3/4". Drill a pilot hole of about 1/8" as close as possible to the center and as straight as possible.
If I screw the screw into the dowel with the top plate, I had 3/4" of unthreaded screw sticking up - too much. The heli would tip way too much in my opinion. I ended up using a nut to take up some of the space. Now, I have 1/2" to 3/8" of screw sticking up.
As I said, I don't yet have the 3/4" pipe flange or the foam, so, it's just the dowel sticking up in a vise with the top plate attached. This was all stuff I had laying around and not to Mr. Herbert's specs, but it's the same principle as far as I'm concerned.
Please try this and tell me what you get. Also let me know how you are holding the heli in place. In my attempt at a 1/2" top plate, I went so far as to drill some holes in the top plate to accommodate small zip ties to hold the skids. I might try that with the smaller, skinnier top piece I have on there now.
I just read the end of Dave's video where he says he'll sell you a kit for $120!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have $Zero invested so far, but expect to maybe have $10 invested after the foam and pipe flange. The more I watch the videos, the more I see that he wants the thing flopped over as much as I'm seeing. I guess it's just a matter of making it work, like the guy in the second video.
I put together a couple of pictures and an explanation of what I've done so far in a Word document. I don't know how to do an attachment on here, or maybe you can't, so, if anybody wants a quick look at what I have, drop me an email so I can send an attachment.

mr. ilikehelp

ok send me the attachment.

yes i was replying to you it doesnt go back in a hover its wierd.

may be instead of just all dowel you culd put one of those light wieght springs at the end of the dowel thes continue more dowel at the top of the spring then have the plate. sry but thats all i got. give me more time and it will be better suggestions.

oh i build one not till next weekend though.

mr. ilikehelp

heres my idea/blueprint

kodak_jack

I plan on making it just the way he has his. I have everything but the two springs and two hose clamps. It's easy to make.

kodak_jack

Send me a private message with your email address in it or send me an email I can respond to. I can't add attachments unless I send it to your email address.

mr. ilikehelp

ok so i dont know how to get better with the heli. im now nervous about crashing and dont want to take it up to high and i havent built the training stand yet. how should i ovecome my fears and start learning

what were tour first steps besides the sim. i dont like sims and there diffrent than th real thing.

mr. ilikehelp

ok so i crashed in to some snow [:@] and my controls got a bit of snow on them[&o]. i dried them quickly. will they bee fine/[&o][&o][&o][&o][&o][][:@]

kodak_jack

Warm weather will get to you on July 4th. Things on the HBFP are fairly easy to fix. Can you practice in your garage or basement?

mr. ilikehelp

both except my garage is better

i bought clearview and i loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooovvv vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvveeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeee iiiiiiiiiiiittttttttttttttttttt.

i fly great on clearview but not so good with the real thing though i have gotten better since the sim o well i g2g

wat/can/i/do/guy

the clearveiw is nice i showed it to you have you made any upgrades on your hbfp yet

kodak_jack

I've got this Dave Herbert training thing built and, let me tell you, it's a WILD RIDE!!! I feel for the guy in the second video where Dave can't understand why he can't do what he wants him to do. That thing is like a bronkin' bull!! You no sooner think you have it level on the top plate when the base suddenly moves and it wants to flop over again. You're fighting the balance up at the top plate and the base at the same time. I also can get a lot closer to this thing on the stand than when it's on the floor or up in the air and noticed that I can hear the tail rotor motor revving up and down when I'm not moving the left stick for it to do anything. I don't know if the 4-in-1 does that or what. I might take the base rocking out of it just to see how hard it is to control without it. WOW, it's a lot more work than the video leads you to believe. If the guy in the second video had zero experience before that vid, he got that bird under control a LOT better than I can do!! I'm working my butt off with my right stick and am exhausted when I'm done.

mr. ilikehelp

upgrades no im gonna have trouble with those cuz my llocal hobby store doesnt sell replacement parts except for my skids and thats about it. what upgrades do you recomend? superskids? i moved the fin forward and put on heatsinks.

nuttcaze

this is my HBFP all stock - [link=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BicJ9-1nCag]HBFP[/link]

wat/can/i/do/guy

james its me daniel asking if you got any upgrades

bigjimrules

Before I build one of these things the question is: Do you feel like it is helping you to learn to fly? Is it worth the time to build it and is practicing on it improving your ability to control the bird?

kodak_jack

Like I said, it flops over so far that it's VERY difficult to get righted again. The heli is flopping around on the slop in the screw of the top plate as well as the base pitching around too. I'm beginning to think this thing isn't ballsy enough to do what I saw him do in the two videos. I have my doubts that it would pull the dowel up out of the pipe like he shows (my dowel is 3/4" X 3ft long). It cost me all of $13 to build mine and that's with inflated hardware store parts. If you have the stuff laying around, it could be less. If you have to buy it all, it still wouldn't be expensive, but... Maybe time and money is better spent on a sim. The other option is to build one and tone it down to something that works better for your/our application. Dave is an expert at flying/controlling heli's, so, he makes it look easy. I'm trying to learn to hover and think it's almost impossible to do. This takes the balancing a marble on a plate routine one step further. [] To be honest about it, I think the only way I'm going to learn is to go out in my garage when it warms up. I'm trying not to let it get to me and am not willing to let it beat me. I don't have a couple of hours/day to keep working on this. If it doesn't work out, I'm okay with just walking away from it.

bigjimrules

I certainly understand your frustration as I have made very slow, if any, progress on learning to hover and looking for any new methods to help in the training. I am thinking about your idea to perhaps make a smaller scale version of this training helipad designed more for the smaller HBFP.

kodak_jack

In Dave's version, he uses a 3/8" screw in a 1/2" hole. I had a 1/4" screw and used a 3/8" hole. Maybe the thing to do is start out with a smaller hole, for me 5/16", to minimize how much it can flop over. With mine, I used a standard 3ft piece of dowel (the way you buy it). It comes up to about 4 ft with the addition of the two compression springs and that's about chest height. Maybe the dowel needs to be cut down so it's not so high and doesn't weigh as much. He doesn't give you all the details because I think he wants you to pay $120 for a kit!! I'll fool around with it and see what happens. I can remove one of the compression springs and see what that does. I've already taken out the screw that made the base wobble around so it sits flat on the floor now.

mr. ilikehelp

ok so y can i fly fine in a sim and not in real life. i use the hbfp in the sim

kodak_jack

MANY people do great on a sim and then don't do as well in real life. I don't have an answer to why that is. I guess the only thing for you, me and a LOT of other people to do is wait for better weather and then go out to the garage. I tried the training thing that Dave suggests. Maybe you need to start out with less slop in the top plate so it doesn't flop over so far and then work your way up to controlling it better like he and the guy do in the videos (I still can't believe that the guy walked up to that thing and hovered it as well as he does on the first try!!). I also have a hard time with getting my HBFP to put out enough power to do what that 400 does in the video. Either my batteries are shot or the FP just doesn't have it to lift up the way that one does. The trainer costs very little and requires no special skills to build. Try it and let me know how it works for you!!

I changed the lag screw from a 1/4" to a 5/16". This took a little of the slop out of the top plate, but I still have a heck of a time getting it to flatten out.[]

mr. ilikehelp

ok im gonna wait for better weather

ohh and the guy in the second video i think he had flown before. i know this cuz if you go to nightflyyers home page and look at his youtube friends that second guy is onit and has videos of him flying.

nuttcaze

yeah, Dave's friend knows how to fly coaxials, just not single rotor heli's.

kodak_jack

Has anybody tried making one of these yet? Even if you don't make a full one, try the dowel in a vise with a top plate screwed onto it.

mr. ilikehelp

nope not enough time i was busy this weekend