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Heli stuff and fellowship

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Old 06-15-2008, 07:33 PM
  #226
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David867,even when I fly my foamies,I don't get too high.I have this thing about losing sight of them.
maddod57,are we still on for Friday?Did you fly since you got your heli back together?I went thru a couple of packs yesterday hovering in my back yard.I got a wobble in it from the main gear.I'm replacing it now and will try it again tomorrow.By the way,we went to Rodizio's today.Just got home.Played a little.I finally won a few bucks there.I seem to do better at Vernon.

Dave
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Old 06-15-2008, 07:37 PM
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Well, going flying again. Perfect still sunny evening. Hope you got to fly today.

Bug
I got to fly yesterday for four hours.
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Old 06-15-2008, 09:42 PM
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ORIGINAL: drobin

David867,even when I fly my foamies,I don't get too high.I have this thing about losing sight of them.
maddod57,are we still on for Friday?Did you fly since you got your heli back together?I went thru a couple of packs yesterday hovering in my back yard.I got a wobble in it from the main gear.I'm replacing it now and will try it again tomorrow.By the way,we went to Rodizio's today.Just got home.Played a little.I finally won a few bucks there.I seem to do better at Vernon.

Dave

Fri.'s still a go for me, Dave. nope, haven't had the Raptor out yet. been busy the last couple days. i may have 1 or 2more evenings to finish up the lose ends. i'm dying to try it . been getting as much sim time as i can, so hopefully i can run thru my two batt. paks before i crash, HAHA.

hope your neck/back problem is better. i have problems w/ mine too, so i know how it is. also good to hear you fixed your helis' spin problem. so it was the belt, huh. most of the time it's the simple things that get ya.

chris
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Old 06-16-2008, 12:03 AM
  #229
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Woa! My TREX is sweet now. I put on a GATES belt. Haha! No clicking. What a difference. From here david and I are going check out the orange belts that JIM recomended. One thing is for sure and that is that I will never buy the ALIGN belts again. I threw on a full round of HYPERION blades. YeeHaa! Snappy! Im lovin it.

Hope you got out to play this fathers day.

Flyer
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Old 06-16-2008, 06:47 AM
  #230
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FLyachopper I really enjoy reading your posts about your job. Although we have completely different vocations, its amazing how similar they are in many aspects. I work with my boat 250 days a year and it has become part of who I am. I consider it a personal offense if someone mistreats it. I have different types of clients all the time. Some trips I really click with them, others its just a day at work, others....well lets just say I look at my watch often. Some I could not please if the trip was free, others think I walk on the water. LOL

I have only been in heli's since Christmas and I have been collecting tools that help me make a better heli since the start. I am always looking online, in stores, etc. in places other than "hobby" areas for a tool. I make mistakes at times getting something that does not work, but its awesome when I get something that works well and stays in my stuff. When I first started I wanted to buy a heli that was RTF. Since I have discovered I really like building, repairing, and just solving the heli issues that come up. I never enjoyed building a plank or fixing them. Somehow this is different.

I had fathers day off and the whole morning to myself. I can fly here at my house so when the sun was high enough that I could wear my sun glasses to see better (its hell getting old, prescription glasses are a must) I put the 450v2 on the pad. Came up to hover and found my slow tail wag that I had corrected with my gyro gain had returned. I have learned the hard way to land and check it over. Upon inspection I found the machine screw that holds the tail grip on had backed out a until it hit the back of the tail blade. It then had enough wiggle rooom to strip the threads inside the center of the metal tail holder (plastic). Thats one part I did not have so back to my "Man Cave". Got out my T-500 which is my favorite so far. Flew seven packs of just having fun flying. Side in hover stuff, stall turns, piros. Trying to maintain a constant altitude when acclerating to fff and stopping is giving me fits, but I had a blast. In the afternoon the whole extended family was here for a dads day cook out. Upon request I got out the T-500 upon request to fly once for them. during preflight I found a slight bit of slop in one mixing arm. When I tried to remove the screw that goes into the seasaw, it just kept turning. After removing it, you could see where the ca had done its job, black plastice filled the threads. I dont know if I had over tightned it or it just stripped during the first 70 flights. Either way I am grounded. I did order a metal seasaw and metal control arms last night. I guess I need a third heli to keep in the air! I was looking hard at a Trex 600N, but have changed my plan to a 600e.

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Old 06-16-2008, 08:40 AM
  #231
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David: The Trex, Copterx and other clones do not have the tail holding power on the tails. The conclusion of why is really very simple. The control movement/arm is not great enough to deflect the tail blades when you put the power to it. You can use a longer arm but the tail be be over sensitive. On the nitro birds we use a lot of travel and the mechanical advantage is much greater. The 450 helis have a lot of tail blade and the pressure is more than you think. 1 solution is to use a more powerful servo. With a micro heli you do not have a lot of choices. In Davids case he is using the a very large full size 9254 tail servo with a 401 gyro. A great combo. The servo is very large and heavy for a 450 airframe but doable. It should have plenty of power but the mechanical arm/ movement is not great enough on the 450 to use it. Guys around here are counter balancing the tail blade holders to help with this problem. All you need to do is use a couple of ball links. Remove your blades and use a bolt that will be long enough to pass through the ball link and blade holders. The ball links will be the counter balance weights along with the heavy bolt. The ball link will be on the side of the blade holder. Try on the inside and then try on the out side. You will see a difference right away. You may need to drill the link out for the larger bolt or use a large scale link. The turbo charged motor that you purchased you may also have a hard time keeping that power in check and trying to get some flight duration. If you have a 12T pinion try that and possibly adjusting your throttle and pitch to get a happy medium. My pitch slider is silky smooth. With the Align motor and 13T pinion my pitch curve is a standard 10 to 10 and my throttle curve for Idle up is 100- 98-95-98-100. I find a little over rev at center stick but the slight over rev helps winding the sudden pitch input up. The down side when using high throttle curves such as mine and 100% across the board is the blades. You have to have a set of premium blades or risk a blow up. With my set up I am getting 8 mins of flight time and using only 80% battery with 20% in reserve. (I am in and out of idle up to help cool the motor with normal mode and to give my old eyes a rest) That percentage will go down with harder banging so thats why the 20% reserve. I do not like the on board battery alarm for a heli and I can't see upside down and the power waining because of the warning. That being said the best deal is to use 100% across the board for Idle up or use a gov but be sure to have the blades that will handle it and expect the duration to be less. The only ESC I know of that has a Gov that actually works is a Klontronics. Very expensive !! We all wish for tons of power but trial and error is the norm till we find a sweet spot. Have fun in the exploration David.

80 years old? that young. I am helping one of our thread buddies here in the thread that is older than that and has a Trex450sa that we are setting up for him. Back a lot of years ago I met a man who was confined to a wheelchair. He could do amazing things to a helicopter and was doing 3D flying well before 3D was invented. That was over 16 years ago and I learned to fly from him and the most inportant thaing I learned is ther is no hadicaps that you can not over come. . I would maybe try a coaxle heli first so you can have fun and not fix all the time. You could sit in a chair like my friend did so you do not have to put your balance to a test. I have seen men use a walker and he mounted a top on the handle to use as a table to help hold his transmitter at the same time guard against a fall. You would steady your self when picking up the heli. I would suggest a wheelchair and that way you can reach the ground and not fall down. As a man it is hard to use equipment that points to our short comings but who cares now. I too have handicaps that I have not shared with my freinds here. Go out and go for it and don't hold back. It was the best thing I ever did.

Tex: I think the 700 is not in the furture for me. I really want the 500 for now. The .90 size birds are large and stable but out of my budget unless I win the LOTTO. Then I will buy one everyone. LOL I didn't fly at all all weekend. I am a golf nut and had to watch the US OPEN.

Jay: I havent ordered the body yet. I will be very interested in your review. Tell Donica we are thinking of her.

Bug: How tight are you using your belts. I still have my original trex and CopterX belts. You want them to be very loose. Mine are loose enough that when I hold the head and turn the tail with moderate pressure the belt will click past a tooth. When I press on one side of the belt it will almost touch the other side. I did remove the idler pully from the belt. I am using the original belts.

Jim
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Old 06-16-2008, 08:49 AM
  #232
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ORIGINAL: 80yrOldog

Very nice helis you kids got here. i'm coming back to my childhood for the second time.. i have been looking at these electric helis for quite some time now.. i barely could stand up for 5 minutes straight, my back hurts and as soon as i bend down i just go straight crashing to the ground face first. But i would love to be in this heli hobby. Any suggestions kids?
I would like to say WELCOME TO OUR FAMILY!!!! I posted an answer for you earlier.

Jim
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Old 06-16-2008, 07:18 PM
  #233
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Hey 80yrOldog,
Real glad you found us here. You're not the only 'old dog' in here and I'm betting your 'wisdom' will be welcome and useful. Stick with us and we'll get you off the ground and forgetting all about your Earthbound limits.

Magic Hook,
Welcome to the thread. This one is for the 'relaxed' crowd and we have a lot of fun here. Tons of good info is shared without the 'sterile' atmosphere of some of the other threads. You live in one of my favorite places in the world and do for a living something I like to do for fun. You're one of the smart ones that made a life around fun. Cool. I love what I do too and feel real lucky to have it. It's true that it can be trying at times, but not nearly as much as other jobs and is never routine. I'd like to go fishin' with ya some day. There are some real educated folks on here that can help you with your little helis and we all look forward to you sharing your stories with us.

Hey Bug,
I use gates belts on the clutches on my older nitros. There is a bearing and drive systems supplier right here in No. Platte and I get them from there. The one I call 'Mutant' used to be a single belt drive and I modified it to a double belt. Those belts are short compared to the tail drives on the electric helis and are the power transfer for everything on the nitros. They run between the clutch and main drive gear. The tails are direct drive off the main gear via a drive shaft and bevel gears. That puts the entire load on the belts and the gates belts have never failed me yet. They wear for a long time too. I do have three of the orange ones discussed here before and will be trying one of them on the T Rex this time around. A friend of mine uses one of those in his nitro off road car, has abused the heck out of it and it's still going strong. Keep an eye on the pulley at the rear end of the boom for wear though. If it looks to be wearing loosen that orange belt a bit. They are made from real tough stuff and can eat away some pulley if too tight. My buddy suggests as loose as possible without touching when pushed on. He also removed the idler pully from the belt drive on his car.

JD,
Now that makes a lot of sense. Counter balancing the tail assy with ball links. Ames says that's straight out of the rotorcraft mechanics handbook. It's done all the time on the full scale stuff. He did it to my black beauty when we changed from the narrower stock tail rotor blades to wider and a little longer ones to work with the new engine configuration. Those blades mount onto rods that slide up the length of the blade and he tried several different weights of rods until he got one that worked with the extra power to the tail. The extra weight is added at the base of the rods just outside where they attatch to the rotor hub. Works on a similar principal of inertia like a flywheel. I have noticed a lot less mechanical noise and vibration when I input rudder on the full scale and it responds instantly. Thanks to this forum I'm learning more and more about not only the little helis but my big one too. Sure is a lot of fun.

Got a $200 gift certificate from Tower Hobbies from my daughter for "Daddies Day". Looks like I'll be laying in some more parts. I don't remember if I ever mentioned my daughter on here. She's 32 yrs. old, a schoolteacher in Colo. Springs, Colo., married to a great guy and six years ago gave me a great grandson. Her mom has been gone since she was 18 mos. old, I got to raise her on my own ('cept for tons of help from my sis). I'm darn proud of her. He name is Sabrina and she's a beauty with long auburn hair and sharp green eyes. I have to say her husband is a lucky guy. Anywho, she and her hubbie both think my hobby is cool and she (as you can tell) supports me in it.

Hauled three loads of boxes to Ames' and Debi's new house today. Sure is a nice place. Big rooms and a huge garage. Ames is gonna be happy there.

Got dinner and bookkeeping to get done yet this evening so I'm outa here for now. I plan to put in an hour or two on the T Rex too.

See ya later.

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Old 06-16-2008, 07:21 PM
  #234
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I have decided to 86 the 700, china is closing all their nitro fuel factories due to the Olympics. We just bought the last of the fuel here at the three local LHS and they are NOT getting anymore.

This creates a bit of anxiety for us nitro fliers. The factories will re-open fortunately.

I will most likely get a 600E
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Old 06-17-2008, 12:24 AM
  #235
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ORIGINAL: []TEX[]

I have decided to 86 the 700, china is closing all their nitro fuel factories due to the Olympics. We just bought the last of the fuel here at the three local LHS and they are NOT getting anymore.

This creates a bit of anxiety for us nitro fliers. The factories will re-open fortunately.

I will most likely get a 600E
Thats crazy TEX. Gas Gas Gas , oil oil oil. Its such a big topic now. How much fuel did you buy. Do you have enough to get you through the drought? You cant just alchemise that stuff together? I cant remember, but do you have any electric flyers?

JIM and JAY.

I run my belts very loose aswell. I think my belt must have been stressed after the last crash, showed no stress on the surface, but I dont know what else it could have been. Good news is my heli has never run this smooth as it is now. Its almost scary how fast it can move. I cant imagine flying davids scorpion motor, now that would ferak me out.

More later

FB



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Old 06-17-2008, 10:28 AM
  #236
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Not to change the subject but has any one used an eLogger with the brushless RMP setup? I got one for fathers day and am trying to configure it for the Trex 500. The setup ask for the number of polls on the motor but am not sure on the stock motor. Any Ideas?

Dave
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Old 06-17-2008, 12:53 PM
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TEX,

I am with you. I was shopping for a 600N Super Pro but changed my plans to a 600e.
The N will come later, and the 700 is off my radar for now.
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Old 06-17-2008, 01:52 PM
  #238
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ORIGINAL: hdavid11580

Not to change the subject but has any one used an eLogger with the brushless RMP setup? I got one for fathers day and am trying to configure it for the Trex 500. The setup ask for the number of polls on the motor but am not sure on the stock motor. Any Ideas?

Dave
Hay Hdavid: I think the stock motor is 6 pole and welcome to the family. Magic Hook a big welcome goes out to you also.
Our club usually gets up a big fuel order with deep discounts. You have to buy in case lots.

As the rumor goes the homeland security is interested in "nitro" and have been visiting LHS's.
Also the rumor deepens in that a company who was making Nitro Methane in the states has gone belly up leaving only 3 to make it in the world. They are in China. One or 2 plants where suppose to have been destroyed in the quake. Leaving only one in the whole wide world but China put the nixs to them during the Ol- Games....As the rumor goes!! Of course it could have been alians who sucked it all up in space. As rumors go!!!

Jim
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Old 06-17-2008, 02:00 PM
  #239
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Hey tick tockers,
I'm on a break sitting in Ames' new living room. We've got all the boxes and a lot of the small furniture moved now and Debi and I are taking a breather. Ames is at the shop slaving away. We just got his computer set up in the new place and I needed to test it. Must be working, I'm here. I think I'm done with the moving stuff for today. There's a big stock car race show at the fairgrounds here tonight and my sis and I are going. Should be fun.

hdavid,
Welcome to the thread. Hope you send more time here.
If the stock motor with your 500 is the 500L it's a six pole outrunner brushless. The specific properties will be shown in the little owners manual. If you didn't get one go to the Align websight and it should be in their 'manuals' page.

●Input voltage DC11.1V-22.2V 3-6cell Li-Po
●Max continuous current 4S 45A/55A(30sec)
6S 35A/45A(30sec)
●Max output power 650W/800W(30sec)
●KV value:1600KV
●Dimension: spindle 5x36x61.1mm
●Weight: 200g (prox.)

Hope this helps. I've never used an elogger. Come back and educate us on it.

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Old 06-17-2008, 04:17 PM
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hey fellas,

not a happy heli boy today. took the Raptor out for the first flight but didn't get far. i'm soooo disapointed! spent the last 2 cweeks working on it, reading all the good advice you all throw out here, watched Ray's videos, used Davids text, all to no avail. man, she powered up so nice, kept increasing the throttleand off the lawn it came. that was the best part. had it a few inches off the ground and the nose just dove into the grass. rotor blades hit but not too hard. powered down ASAP, set it upright and looked it over. all looked good. stepped back, throttle up again, this time main rotors barely spun, tail rotor going like mad. looks like i took out the oneway bearing on the main shaft. won't let it get me down though. i'll order parts tonight [with lots of spares!], and give it another shot and another and another til i gets it right.

just had to vent, chris
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Old 06-17-2008, 05:00 PM
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ORIGINAL: Magic Hook

TEX,

I am with you. I was shopping for a 600N Super Pro but changed my plans to a 600e.
The N will come later, and the 700 is off my radar for now.
Ya, I got the 600 GF at ReadyHeli last nite for $469 shipped. I'm pretty excited about it and I haven't even bought any electronics for it yet...LOL!

FB, we got two cases. Between me and my buddy we should be ok through the summer. He has a 600N, 500 and 450 so when the fuel is gone, we'll start charging.
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Old 06-17-2008, 05:05 PM
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ORIGINAL: maddog57

hey fellas,

not a happy heli boy today. took the Raptor out for the first flight but didn't get far. i'm soooo disapointed! spent the last 2 cweeks working on it, reading all the good advice you all throw out here, watched Ray's videos, used Davids text, all to no avail. man, she powered up so nice, kept increasing the throttleand off the lawn it came. that was the best part. had it a few inches off the ground and the nose just dove into the grass. rotor blades hit but not too hard. powered down ASAP, set it upright and looked it over. all looked good. stepped back, throttle up again, this time main rotors barely spun, tail rotor going like mad. looks like i took out the oneway bearing on the main shaft. won't let it get me down though. i'll order parts tonight [with lots of spares!], and give it another shot and another and another til i gets it right.

just had to vent, chris
Chris, what makes you think it's the one way bearing and why did it nose into the ground? Think back to that moment, was it your or the green gremlins in the heli? DId you over correct? Anyway, like you said, don't get discouraged, it will happen again.

You should probably spend some time on the sim my heli friend.
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Old 06-17-2008, 05:33 PM
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Hello everyone. Maddog sorry about your ding job. When you have it together grasp the flybar with both hands while it is left and right and check your balance. The heli shoould be balanced with the skids squar with the bench top. Also make sure your trim tabs are where they need to be in your preflight.

Jay you are a good fellow helping with the move. Furnish enough beer and we will all come over and "help".

TEX Congrats on the 600CF. Even with the fuel "rumors" I would like the 600N over the 600E. The batteries are in the $250 range and that price is just way out of my price range. I can al ways retune my OS for 15% fuel. @ 11.95 gal. Thats about 5 cases of fuel. I think that now that I have flown a 500E that it will be the next bird in my stable. Guys here are really excited about them and thats all I see at the field and fly-ins lately. The other draw is the ability to use my 450 batteries and current chargers. I also have a reserve of fuel and should be good for a while. We use Youngblood 30% and I paid $16.75 per gallon. My new order that was placed will have the price up to $18 due manly to the shipping charges.

It was a great day here at the lake. I did nothing but chores all day. I am happy to report that I got my grass cut with out a single crash of my tractor. I did hillside tick tocks and ran over the flowers but no crash. No flying for me till the weekend due to work. I will sim a little tonight.

Trick of the trade: A question that is asked often is "How tight or close should my pinion be to the main gear"? A trick I use is to roll a piece of copy paper through the gear and pinion gear and I want to see a sharp accordian crinkle. I will further check by holding the pinon and rocking the main back and forth. I want to have a little play between the gears. This is an area that will drain your battery and heat and bog the motor and esc.

Keep them flying,

Jim
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Old 06-17-2008, 05:37 PM
  #244
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ORIGINAL: dooleyje
When you have it together grasp the flybar with both hands while it is left and right and check your balance. The heli shoould be balanced with the skids squar with the bench top. Also make sure your trim tabs are where they need to be in your preflight.
Balance with the tank half to 3/4 full. You'll balance incorrectly if you do it with the tank empty.
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Old 06-17-2008, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: maddog57

hey fellas,

not a happy heli boy today. took the Raptor out for the first flight but didn't get far. i'm soooo disapointed! spent the last 2 cweeks working on it, reading all the good advice you all throw out here, watched Ray's videos, used Davids text, all to no avail. man, she powered up so nice, kept increasing the throttleand off the lawn it came. that was the best part. had it a few inches off the ground and the nose just dove into the grass. rotor blades hit but not too hard. powered down ASAP, set it upright and looked it over. all looked good. stepped back, throttle up again, this time main rotors barely spun, tail rotor going like mad. looks like i took out the oneway bearing on the main shaft. won't let it get me down though. i'll order parts tonight [with lots of spares!], and give it another shot and another and another til i gets it right.

just had to vent, chris
Chris, what makes you think it's the one way bearing and why did it nose into the ground? Think back to that moment, was it your or the green gremlins in the heli? DId you over correct? Anyway, like you said, don't get discouraged, it will happen again.

You should probably spend some time on the sim my heli friend.
I agree Tex, Sounds like a blown gear or slipping pinion to me. I have not broken a one way is any crash before. But there is always a first time. At any rate a good post flight will tell you whats going on. Maddog. Don't feel bad. Just learn from it .

Jim
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Old 06-17-2008, 06:25 PM
  #246
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Hi and thanks for the welcome. I got a little test from the Egal Tree people that says 6 is the right choice.

cut in note -
I know that the Align 600XL motor has a pole count of 6, the other align motors may be the same. One way to determine the pole count empirically is to:

1) Locate a handheld tachometer that can be used to measure the RPM of the blades.

2) Connect the brushless sensor to a motor lead and plug into either a data recorder or eLogger.

3) Go into “Tools”… “Calibrate Motor RPM”. Enter 1 for the number of poles and the gear ratio if using a gearbox.

4) Run the motor in Live mode and write down the RPM shown on the instrument display and the RPM measured by the optical tachometer.

5) Divide the RPM displayed on the computer by the RPM measured by the optical tachometer. Round off to the nearest whole number (I.e. 13.92 = 14). This is the number of poles. Go back into “Tools, Calibrate Motor RPM” and enter this number in the number of poles.

6) Run the check again to be sure the number of poles is correct.


I will try it tonight and let you know how it works out. I have been here for a while, just never needed to step in. You have always talked about the items I was interested in any way. I been flying for a long time and I like the info the eLogger gives back. Nice to see how a roll or tick tocks effect the current draw on a pack. Also a good way to tune the pitch and stick position for those of us that don't hear as well as we use to.
Any way thanks for all the info I have recieved in the past, and will try to give back some to the group.

Dave H
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Old 06-17-2008, 06:30 PM
  #247
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Old 06-17-2008, 06:30 PM
  #248
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LOL, site tach? Those things are $200, I think it's cheaper to look it up.
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Old 06-17-2008, 06:52 PM
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hey all,

TEX, i'm sure the oneway is gone cuz i can rotate the mains in either direction and they freewheel, plus the tail rotor doesn't spin w/ it. yeah, i'm sure it was me, not the G2 cuz to be honest i probably don't know what the _ _ _ _ i'm doing, haha. no idea why the nose went down, it all happened so fast, ya know?

dooleyje, i think i had a good balance. i'd done like you say and w/ the larger CellPros on board it would hang almost deadnuts level. i think i was to blame for my problem. when powering up to lift off, i think i went way too slow cuz i was a little scare of what was gonna happen. i was inching the throttle up and maybe i should've been more agressive so as to clear the ground more quickly? trim tabs were centered except for throttle/collective which should be all the way down, yeah?

anyway, thanx for the feed back, guys. please throw more opinions to me cuz i need all the help i can get!


chris
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Old 06-17-2008, 09:12 PM
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maddog57,
Chris,when you rebuilt,did you make sure the printing on the one way was in the down position?If it is installed upside down,it will act that way.Did you put the training wheels on it?I use them in my backyard because I have some uneven spots and tend to land there.When you order parts,check out helidirect under the Walkera DF36.Same parts.I put in an order last Tuesday night and had the parts on Friday.Also,you should pull the cover on the transmitter and resolder everything.Different radios are the items people upgrade first with these.The electronics really are not the best.If you want,bring it with you Friday and we'll go over it.I may not fly very well,but I learned to fix.Remember,if you don't crash,you ain't flying.

Dave
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