dooleyje

http://www.ronlund.com/Merchant2/mer...Code=MAVHT1003 David and Flyerbug try this belt. It is suppose to be a good-un

Jim

David867

Hey Jim, I got all that except this. Is that the 2 rings that run along the outside portion of the bearing, and touch the thrust bearing? Makes the inner thrust bearing spin with the blade grip while the outter thrust bearing rotates against the main blade grip and is stationary with the feathering shaft? Getting confused...

That looks like a nice belt, have you used it before?

flyachopper1

Hey belt burners,
Progress was the word for last night. Donica got some parts on her heli and I got some tweaking done on the T Rex. It's a lot of fun sitting in there with her building. She's so darn adept with her hands those little tools don't intimidate her at all. I show her something once and she remembers it. An easy student. She got a little nervous when she dropped one of the motor mount screws down inside the motor. That was the uh oh I heard. She was using the magnifier and trying to peer down into the motor when I got in there. She was worried that she had ruined the new motor. I took it, turned it over and shook the screw right out. You would of thought I had just saved her life. A few giggles and a hug and she was right back to work. I showed her how to use a magnet to magnetize the screw driver enough to hold the screw to get it started. She quietly said something about 'magic' as she put the screw in it's place. I'm going to put the motor and pinion in the Raptor today and will show her how I do it with the motor mount out of the heli and slip it in as an assembly. Then I'll take it back out and let her do it to see if she likes that method or not.

Mike,
I hope your daughter's birth day was real special for her. How old this time? Donica's b'day comes up on the 4th of June and we have decided to just spend a quiet day at home. I'm having something deliverd for it but I can't ruin the surprise yet.

JD-I'm going to order some of those belts and give them a try. They are the same color as some of the little drive belts I used in some of the r/c cars over the years. If they are the same they are made from a type of laminated resin with a fabric like layer. The strands in the fabric give them flexibility and strength. Ive seen them used in some of those automatic self propelled swimming pool sweepers too. They're real tough. If they are the same stuff there will be some of the strands from the fabric layer that will come loose and kind of fray away along the edges of the belt. This isn't a sign of trouble, just the belt breaking in. They will eventually disappear.

I had a little bit of a brain, uuuhhh not quite a storm, thing last night. That clicking, could it be because the tail assy isn't exactly square to the tail boom? There may be a little bump of extra material on the edge of the belt that is hitting something as it goes by. Hey, I told ya it wasn't a storm. I'm fascinated with this and am looking forward to the solution.

On the blade holder thing. I had a tiny bit of wobble on the T Rex when everything was new. Didn't seem to get any worse with use. I noticed it went away when I went with Trueblood dampers. I'm thinking maybe it wsn't actually the blade holder wobbling on the shaft but the entire feathering shaft wobbling a little. Just another brain spark.

Donica just pulled something out of the oven that smells real good. I think it's one of those Lousiana culinary miracles. She made it with some of the walleye fillets in the freezer. Guess it's time for dinner.

Later rotators.

maddog57

hey all,

i guess eveybody has come to this page now, huh. hope ya don't mind if i join ya.

has anyone ever been to this site, [link]http://www.fly3dx.com[/link] and watched the videos? i'm blown away by these guys ,and one of 'em's is only 6yrs old! amazing! how do you learn to fly like that?


chris

David867

Hey Jay, I was thinking it could be the tail boom being bent or something, so I took the tail assembly right off the boom and held it while he turned it, still made noise, also, I removed the pulley, and it made noise while running the belt too. So it's something isolated to the tail assembly, without the boom or idler pulley installed.
The main blade holders move up and down against the feathering shaft, it's not the feathering shaft moving around, you can lift both main blade holders up, and they both lift up, then push them down, and they both go down, so it's definitely loose against the feathering shaft.
Great brain storming tho, much appreciated! We've gotta keep the ideas coming, and visit every possible cause.
These little heli problems are fun to figure out, one of the enjoyments helis can provide.

Great to hear you got lots of progress on the CopterX and Trex, can't wait until Jessica's in the air!

Smells good! Enjoy! And save us some!


Hey Maddog! Thanks for posting that URL, awesome VIDEOS!! You can learn all that in the sim, practice practice practice! It's like snowboarding, or tennis, or golf, or pool, or anything coordination based, put in the time and you'll just naturally get better.

maddog57

me again,

forgot to say in the post above, click on 3d masters 2007 videos. sorry.



chris

maddog57

david,

i know you're right about practise. i don't think my sim has those capabilities... at least i can't find it in the program. it'a an E-SKY sim, byTWF Hobby. i think it's a pretty basic sim. but hey, still have to master the basics first! can anyone recomend a good flight sim program?

chris

flyerbug686

Thanks for that info Jim. Dont have much time right now but wanted to say that Ill try those.

Mark

David867

Simsimsim, you can say that again, I was trying an unfamiliar move, about 20 ft off the ground, and almost lost orientation, it went wild for a bit like a wild horse, "WHOAAAAAAAAAA HORSEEE", got it under control before it hit the ground(dropped to about 5ft), but that made my heart stop. I didn't try that move again. Gotta SIMSIMSIM more before doing that again.
The learnings from that? Be completely familiar with the move before you try it, or try it up high. I'm lucky that I was high enough to learn what I need to focus on in the sim but not damage parts.

FMS comes with the remote you got, I used to use that a lot, you can add on the Trex model, it's somewhat similar, not a great sim, but it can teach you all about collective/cyclic control, it won't really teach you bogging of headspeed or more complex real life physics.
To add on the Trex to your sim, you can go to http://www.trextuning.com/videos.htm and download the trex labeled "FMS Simulator T-Rex model (provided by Y_Sekiai)". Extract that into your FMS directory, and when you go to choose a model to fly, find your uncompressed file and it'll work! Now you can practice almost all the moves the guys did in the 3D masters videos. The ThreeDee heli is almost as good, it can teach you inverted too, I think I learned inverted with that.

If you want to buy the newest sim, Realflight G4 should be good, I've got G3 now and it's awesome. If you're on a budget, you can get Realflight G3 off ebay 2nd hand for cheaper, maybe around $80-100. If you have a fast computer you might as well get G4 for $200.

Jim, I'm still only at 4 cycles each EVO25, it's taking me a while to break them in. haha.

Happy flyin!

dooleyje

David I posted a link to a manual for the CX and it has a parts diagram on the head. It is at heli-bros. I think I put it in the other thread.

Basicly you have the collor that has a flat larger end that goes up against the head block and keeps the dampers in. The narrow end goes up againt one of the bearings that is inserted from the back. The front bearing inserted from the front goes next to the first bearing then the race of the thrust bearing is against the main bearing followed by the thrust bearing and then the other race and then a washer and then the bolt. The spindle is fat except on the ends and the washer fits on the narrow end of spindle while all the other stuff slides on the fat portion. The washer is 2x5x0.4mm and the bolt is 2x5mm. Your bolt isn't too long is it?

Hope this helps

Jim

dooleyje

Hello everyone I have used the type of belt on nitros and they are tough as Jay said.

That blade cliking almost sounds like the problem I had with my CX. I had to replace a bearing because when the belt was pulling it wound be real rough. When I pulled the belt off of the pully the noise and roughness would go away. So the belt pressure cause the problem to appear. This is also a possibility for Flyerbug.

Jay: hope you and Donica are having fun with some quality time together. Take some pictures of the build up with Donica at the bench.

Food for thought: I have found that other than damage the helis tend to wobble and the tail will bob up and down when the head speed is too low. All the folks I have helped with nitros do not have this problem much because the head speed is so much slower that electrics. Your tail will not hold as well either when its low. Shoot for about 2700-2800 rpm to get it smooth. You pinion also makes a big difference in performance. I see folks who use 11T on the Trex and to me that is not enough with the 150T main gear. I like the 13T because it gives me a good flight duration and does not overly heat the components and has the head speed I like to do the thens I like to do with helis. Remember that the high KV motors like the 430s 3550 and 3700 will want high head speed. There is even a warning about it in the paperwork.

Maddog welcome anytime,

Jim

David867

Thanks Jim,
Is this the same diagram?
The washer between the bearing and thrust bearing, 5.5x8x0.3mm in the diagram, I've got 2 washers instead of 1 in my CX, so 4 in total.
The washer that's against the socket screw, 2x6x0.6mm, the washer I'm using is smaller than this I think, that's probably the issue in my head. I'm all messed up in my head!


About the wobbling tail, I noticed that the other day when I was flying my 2200mAh 2S1P pack, the headspeed was low, but the heli could still fly around 2D fairly well, had a flight time of 8 minutes. I noticed the wobbling of the tail, and wondered what it was, sounded like I had a headspeed of 2000RPM. I recommend not using 2S packs.

How about a 4400kV motor? I should step it down to 9 or 11T? I'll need to put the numbers into your spreadsheet.

dooleyje

David : looks to be the same. Did you put a washer between the bearing and thrust bearing set? You must have that good or the arm would move in and out.

See Ya

Jim

David867

Hey Jim, I think I have some sort of washer in there, it's 2 thin rings as opposed to just one (5.5x8x0.3mm) that align's diagram shows. But it looks like it's doing the same thing. It makes the thrust bearing fixed to the outter ring of the bearings.

I didn't open it up last night, I'm going to wait for the proper tools to come before I do that, otherwise I'll strip the socket screws. Oh ya, the socket screws shouldn't be too long, they're the ones that came with the Align feathering shaft.

David.

dooleyje

Yes wait on the good tools it really makes thing a bit easier.
See you later,

Jim

David867

Still no tools.. waiting..

Hey Jim,
I have the HS65HB's and I've got it set up like the picture here, from truebloodengineering.com. Someone told me to put it on the 2nd servo arm hole, I've got it on the 3rd like they have it on trueblood, I think this is faster and the angles seem to work very well. If it were on the 2nd hole it might be a little slow.

What do you think?

How do you have yours set up?

Jay/Donica, how's the build going?

dooleyje

I can see that your servo arms are out of wack with the swash. Mine are 14mm out so that should be 2nd hole on all three to get the rods vertical. With this I can roll my heli and it is so fast I don't have to use neg pitch. Almost like a snap roll. My swash mix AFR is 70 70 70. The loop are tight. Pitch will give me a 11-11 degree range or 22 total degrees.
Sorry to hear your tools have not arrived. I hate waiting

Jim

David867

Thanks Jim. So you use the 2nd hold as well, I wonder why Mr.Trueblood has it on the 3rd hole. He made up those dampers, so I thought his setup would be really good.

Ya, I'm waiting for that scorpion 2221-6V2, you weren't joking that it was a hot motor, it's already out of stock again.... I'm glad I snatched one up!

David.

dooleyje

Yes I use the 2nd hole on those particular arms. When you have an angle on your control rods
you put a mechanical disadvantage on your servos, arms, swash. I use the longest arm that will have my linkage square. I then use the swash AFR/mix to give me the throws I need.

Several guys here have changed their Trex500 motors to a Scorpian. The trex 450 in this area are kinda setting on shelfs now that the 500 came out. A great heli! As soon as I save my pesos I am going to get one.

Jim

David867

Ya, the 500 would be nice, being able to use your current batteries is a huge plus. I heard the parts aren't too expensive either.

Hmm, it would definitely have more torque being on the 2nd hole, but the transit speed of the control rod would be a little slower, not sure if it needs more torque, but I'll have to try out the 2nd hole, I might not even notice a difference. I'll probably need more torque with the increased headspeeds when I get the new motor.

Jay and Donica must be out flying now.

dooleyje

I think if you go to 325 blades and up your headspeed you will notice a snappy heli. I am still not sure of what you are trying to do to speed things up. I can barily keep up with mine now. But go for it. You have to be satisfied with your setup so do it your way for the feel you want. The rod speed will not slow down or speed up as the arm is lengthen or shortened. Your total throw amount will be reflected here instead. The torque will be what your servos will give in the enviroment you have them. Square linkages will always be the best setup. If you want more throw you will need to go to your Swash AFR/mix so all three servos will have a 3rd of the work. The other thing to think about that if you have a rod slanted and not square you will actually have differential travel in the extrem throws.

Can't wait till you get the new motor and see the power. Keep in mind that more powerful motor is not going to increase your head speed. Your transmission is where the speed of the head comes from. Now you may not notice as much bog with the new motor but again it is all depending on your transmission (gearing, pinion). As in racing, you have to get the power to the ground or you will just spin your wheels (blades).

I hope Jay and Donica are having some quality time together. They deserve it.

Jim

David867

Ya they deserve it, I knew they'd be off the forum for a while, I was even surprise they were on here for the first bit!
haha.

I'm using cheap 325 Carbon blades right now, 13T with the 3700kV 430XL, and it's pretty fast but I want more. Here is a [link=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QO8msR0LjcQ]video [/link]showing some full collective climbs, does it look like it's set up right? ESC is on high timing, I think I've had it climbing better on low, but I'm gonna have to try changing it and testing. The new motor is a 4400kV motor, so the headspeed should pick up if I stick to the 13T? Last time I clocked this ESC/motor on my 450X it was going 3100RPM. It's probably enough, but I'm addicted to power, do you hear any bogging? Careful, there was a dog watching and he barked at times, kinda loud in the video.

You're right, the torque won't change, I said that wrong, I meant that the force applied to the swash plate will change, it'll increase, while the control rod slows down and the further out on the servo arm it is, the faster the rod's gonna travel, but I'm gonna go to the 2nd hole, because I estimate that you get 2.2kg of force there, instead of 1.64kg at the 3rd hole. I don't need the extra travel that the 3rd hole gives, should be good.

maddog57

david,


just watched your video. very nice flying. even tho i'm new to helis, it looks like you've got it set-up right. nice!


chris

David867

Hey Chris, thanks, all from the sim, simsimsim. Pretty much everything you can do in the sim without crashing, you can try it in real life and it works. haha.

Ya, I think it feels like it's set up pretty good, but still lots of things to tune, that's why I like this hobby. For instance, the leveling tool said that mid stick and top/bottom were level, but I had to put in a lot of trim to get it to hover stable, maybe that's because of the weight distribution? Or maybe the flybar paddles are on there crooked, since I just eyeballed it. Heli's are great, we can have so much fun with them.

Hey, I should head home and see if I got a scorpion in my mail box!!! [X(]

I need more power!! [>:]

maddog57

hey all,

i like to look at all the different helis on the market and found these[link]http://www.wolf-hobby.com[/link] and[link]http://www.hobbyspec.com[/link]. anyone familiar w/ these?the wole 500 is sharp.


chris