acdii

Isee it referred to a lot now, so what is it? The ability to fly upside down?

Rafael23cc

My Feedback: (6)

There was a debate in other helicopter forums about this not too long ago.

The concensus is that 3D is any maneuver that you have to "control" 2 axis of the helicopter or more at the same time. For example: a loop is not 3D. A roll is not 3D, but when you perform a loop with a pirouette at the same time, then that is considered 3D. If you do a roll with a piroette, then that is considered 3D.

Some manufacturers refer to the flight mode swith or the idle-up switch as the 3D switch. That is partially correct, as that switch most likely need to be "on" to be able to do the maneuvers, but not necessarily.

If I find the link to the ther forum I'll post it here.

Edit: Found it, I guess the debate was some time ago....
[link]http://rc.runryder.com/helicopter/t6270p1/[/link]

Rafael

proffate61

Broadly to me 3D is non-realistic flying, as in doing things prototype heli's can't or don't regularly do, aka stunt flying. Upside down, knife edge, etc.

Is flying backwards or doing piro's 3D?A real heli can do them but it's rare to do so.

Loops and rolls?Some real helis have the capability but it's not normal.

Controlling 2 axis to me isn't 3D either - if you consider them xyz then forward flight while doing a piroettes would be 3D, or even climbing while flying forward - so coax helis are capable of 3D flight?Few would agree that they are.

Only full CPheli's can do 3D, right?So what can they do that other heli's can't?Reverse pitch on the rotors so one can fly upside down, knife edge, etc.

bikemad

good link, thanks,
there was so many ways of thinking of 3D, I'll go with the view of 3D is what ever you think it is, to me it's a move that can't be done with out using both sticks, A roll can be done with out having to use minus-pitch, you can come down for a stall turn, set the pitch to neutral and then pull up and over using just one stick, mode 2, yes that's not the way we would normally do it but we can if we want and to me that's the point where sport flying stops and 3D start's, if there's no way you do the move with out using both stick or at lest 3 out of 4 planes of travel, i.e. throttle/pitch, rudder, aileron, elevator, I think you get where I'm coming from,
It's just my penny's worth,

acdii

This is what Iwas thinking. Can a real Heli fly upside down? Ibelieve if an RC bird can do something a real one can't, then it should qualify for being 3D capable. What brought this up, Iwatched a video of someone flying a Blade SR, and it was flipping upside down, doing all sorts of tricks and someone in the background said it cant do 3D. Looked 3D to me. Hence my confusion. Ionce made my Cricket become 4D, it blew apart and flew in 4 directions at one time.

bikemad

no, cos to fly up side down you don't need to use both sticks at the same time, it's hovering but up side down, once you have -pitch in stead of +pitch it's the same, and you don't need to move the throttle at the same time as the rudder, aileron, elevator, we tend to do more than one thing at a time but you don't have to when your hovering up side down it's just easier, you can't fly a fix pitch heli up side down but the Blade SR is CP and not FP,
3D to me means more than just using -pitch, I use -pitch in a loop but I don't think of a loop being 3D flight, cos you can pull a loop with out using -pitch, a tic-tok use's both +&- pitch and loads of it plus elevator and to me is much more 3D flying, I under stand where your come from and like I said if you want to call it 3D then that's fine with me, plus I haven't seen the video your on about and as a blade SR is a CP it can do 3D but to me it needs more than just being up side down,
But it's a good start, to me a good 3D move is, I would call and your have to forgive me if the name is wrong, saw teeth, the heli is the right way up and you tilt it back and use +&- pitch with elevator forward and back to make the heli pull forward on -pitch and lift on +pitch to give what looks like a saw teeth in the air, it's what to me what 3D flight is,

Solman

To me, this is how I view 3D. These are the guidelines on how Iview it.

1. Manuever must be in idle up mode to be performed.

2. If a fixed pitch heli or a full scalecan perform the move, then it isn't 3D

3D in my opinion is basically advanced aerobactics. You have basic aerobactics like loops and rolls. As you get into the advanced aerobactics, then the name changes to 3D.

Rafael23cc

My Feedback: (6)

Some of you might be over-simplifying the Concept of 3D.

Technically ALL we do in life is based on 3D movement. When we walk on a sidewalk, we are moving in the X and Y axis, and guess what? If the sidewalk is sloped, we are moving on the Z axis too. So an aircraft flying in the air is already doing 3D. The fact that is flying upside-down does not make it any different to flying right side up.

So, to simplify the concept of 3D to the simple requirement of having to use a switch or comparing it to Full Scale or fixed pitch flying is a little too much. Go and read the discussion about it on the link I provided.

Rafael

Solman

All I am saying is that someone started to do advance flying because the advancement of transmitters and helicopters allowed him to do so. They wanted to give this new flying a name and called it 3D and it caught on. As I am sure you can remember when you had to flip a switch to reversve your pitch to fly inverted. Could you fly what is considered 3D flying back then? Obviously not, so as I stated earlier is what is different of the rc heli's of the past compared to the technology of today.

Rafael23cc

My Feedback: (6)

Although I may agree with your statement above, regarding the "Invert" switch and the difference between that and the 3D curve, still, trying to simplify it to just those two items is a bit too much. The discussion on RunRyder is pretty thorough in the description of what is and what is not considered 3D. And that is the concensus over at RunRyder. If a different concensus is reached over here at RCUniverse, then that would be another story. If I'm doing anything at all, then I'm showing precedent, if you will, as often used in the legal system.

Rafael

Solman

Funny, didn't know that Runryder was a judicial system and or law of the land. Either way, that is my opinion

Anyways, in Wilkipeia, this is what they had to say.

evan-RCU

In my circle of helo pilots back then we didn't call our flying 3D when the new radios came out, we called it "switchless" flying. Little did we know back then...

acdii

Actually now that I think about it, they all have it wrong.  3D is 3 dimensions. All helis fly 3d, forward, sideways and up all at the same time, 3 dimensions. It should really be called 4D!  forward, sideways, up and in a circle all at the same time.  [8D]

Solman

So when did switchless flying start?

Rafael23cc

My Feedback: (6)

What I find funny is that Wikipedia, a totally neutral and completely oblivious website of anything, is now the go-to place for the definition of anything. There are a lot more pilots that fly at International Event frequenting that site, than there are on this site. So in my opinion, if you want the latest news and trends about the RC Helicopter hobby, there is only one site that has their fingers in the arterial "pulse" of the hobby.

Between Wikipedia and you, just make it sound like F3C and FAI competitions are 3D. Which can't be further from the thruth.

All I did was to point out a discussion that happened more than 3 years ago, on a different website. If you disagree, then we can agree to disagree. You will not change my opinion of what 3D is, and I obviously will not change your view.

Rafael

Solman

I am sure that you are smarter than that. If you are, then you are reading into it too much. I talked to Jason Krause Saturday and even he didn't come up with an exact definition.Given his position and skill,that tells me that there isn't an exact definition and can be left up to interpetation.

Rafael23cc

My Feedback: (6)

Ask cold, and the the deer-in-the-headlights look comes out. Show him something to get the wheeels spinning, and you will get a sensible answer. As stated before, "3D is just a term coined by RCers. Everything we do DAILY is done in 3D. So why is flying an aircraft during extreme maneuvers called 3D?

Rafael

Solman

When was the last time you saw an full scale aerobactic airplane hang like a heli above the runway? Or come in at a 45-50 degree angle and touch just the tail wheel on the ground? There are things rc's can do that full scale can not do. Have you ever heard of the term 3D used in full scale flying? I sure haven't.

Rafael23cc

My Feedback: (6)

I understand what you are trying to say, but you will not change my mind as I will not change yours. See you later!
Go flying. Preferably some 3D style. I will.

Rafael