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  1. #1

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    Xcell furion 450 owners in need your help please

    i have been having a small wobble on spool up.It is not the blades as i have removed them,i also removed the flybar cage and flybar.If i put my finger on the swash plate and spin the head by hand fully assembled i can feel a small bump bump bump...as the head spins,when i took the head appart and took off the carbon fiber blade grips but left the metal blade hubs on that the feathering shaft bolts hold on,and spun the head,the small bump was still there,but increased after reassembled the rotor head completly,but i think that since the lower washout arms are not centerd on the rotor head and stick out farther one end that this is normal?? you know how they mount on with the part that the flybar cage linkage hooks onto them? i have taken the feathering shaft out and centerd it many time,the main and feathering shafts are streight and at speed the head spinns true with and without blades but i have a small wobble at startup.Like i said i toom the head appart all the way and left the rotor hub and metal blade grip hubs on and i still had this little wobble but got a bit worse when i assemble the head all the way but again the lower washout arms sticking out one way farther than the other naturally add to it?? does any furion 450 owner have there head with no wobble at all?


  2. #2

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    RE: Xcell furion 450 owners in need your help please

    Take the motor out and see if it still does it.

    Just a thought, which direction are you turning the head when you feel the bumps, clockwise or anti clockwise ?

  3. #3

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    RE: Xcell furion 450 owners in need your help please

    i am spinning it clockwise,but i think i figured it out and its normal.I took the entire head off and left the swash and the part that sits above it,the center hub that has the 2 A Arms that attach to the swash then the two washout arms that bolt to the center hub? you know the part im talking about? well i hit the throttle low and felt the small knocking as this assembly spun,i then would stop the assembly from spinning and the small knocking completley stopped.I then removed this assembly and spun up the motor again and no more knocking,so its obviouse that since the washput arms mount on the center hub at opposing ends of the center hub and that on one side of the main shaft the longer skinnier part of the washout arm sits and exactly on the other side of thr main shaft the shorter end of the Washout arm sits there i think ots natural for there to be a slight vibration at low speed since the entire rotating assembly is unbalanced....i think all furions should do this then? o mean its common sense since they are all desighned this way? tru pitting a finger on ypur swash and spool up slow you shpuld feel a small bumbumbum?

  4. #4

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    RE: Xcell furion 450 owners in need your help please


    ORIGINAL: rcpilot1982

    i am spinning it clockwise,but i think i figured it out and its normal.I took the entire head off and left the swash and the part that sits above it,the center hub that has the 2 A Arms that attach to the swash then the two washout arms that bolt to the center hub? you know the part im talking about? well i hit the throttle low and felt the small knocking as this assembly spun,i then would stop the assembly from spinning and the small knocking completley stopped.I then removed this assembly and spun up the motor again and no more knocking,so its obviouse that since the washput arms mount on the center hub at opposing ends of the center hub and that on one side of the main shaft the longer skinnier part of the washout arm sits and exactly on the other side of thr main shaft the shorter end of the Washout arm sits there i think ots natural for there to be a slight vibration at low speed since the entire rotating assembly is unbalanced....i think all furions should do this then? o mean its common sense since they are all desighned this way? tru pitting a finger on ypur swash and spool up slow you shpuld feel a small bumbumbum?
    My furion is 4yrs old and super smooth, nothing of what you describe here. Mine has never been crashed. Are you sure it's nothing to do with the main gear or pinion or even the toothed belt drive ? A little bit or debri or something in the teeth of the gears ?

  5. #5

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    RE: Xcell furion 450 owners in need your help please


    ORIGINAL: rcpilot1982

    i am spinning it clockwise,but i think i figured it out and its normal.I took the entire head off and left the swash and the part that sits above it,the center hub that has the 2 A Arms that attach to the swash then the two washout arms that bolt to the center hub? you know the part im talking about? well i hit the throttle low and felt the small knocking as this assembly spun,i then would stop the assembly from spinning and the small knocking completley stopped.I then removed this assembly and spun up the motor again and no more knocking,so its obviouse that since the washput arms mount on the center hub at opposing ends of the center hub and that on one side of the main shaft the longer skinnier part of the washout arm sits and exactly on the other side of thr main shaft the shorter end of the Washout arm sits there i think ots natural for there to be a slight vibration at low speed since the entire rotating assembly is unbalanced....i think all furions should do this then? o mean its common sense since they are all desighned this way? tru pitting a finger on ypur swash and spool up slow you shpuld feel a small bumbumbum?
    Are you sure it's coming from the washout assembly ?
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  6. #6

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    RE: Xcell furion 450 owners in need your help please

    i will say that when i first built this,i had installed the pinion gear a bit too far up and the pinion set screw beveled the very bottom edge of the main gear,on top of that the main gear is warped a small bit but with all that left alone and by just removing this pitch slider with the A arms and washout arms attached to it,the small vibration completly vanishished....just by removing this one part.So you say you dont have even the slightest wobble? I dont anything wrong with this part accepy forthe washout arms facing opposing ends causing the need for high speed rotation to true the rotating assembly.So you put a finger on the swash anf you feel nothing? i dont see anything wrong with this pitch slider assembly accept for whats mentioned.


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    RE: Xcell furion 450 owners in need your help please

    Yep, a finger on the swashplate and nothing, it's silky smooth.

    Are the balls on the inner swashplate  that the plastic 'A' arms are pushed onto, working themselfs out pushing the arms against the inside of the swashplate ?

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    RE: Xcell furion 450 owners in need your help please

    no i took the swash appart and reinstalled the race and this bumping went away accept when i bolted the center hub on the shaft it returned but i dont think its that.My dad thinks that since the main gear is a bit warped that once i install some weight on the shaft that these impulses are amplified,witch is was i was thinking although first it was the pitch slider assembly,since i would remove it the vibration would go away...lol...also a question i had for months,When i install the feathering shaft and just tighten the bolts till they stop,the blade grips move a bit stiff? and not tight yet floppy like my beam E4 Advance? is yhis normal? i can get them to move very freely with no slop but that involves not snugging them the bolts down,although if i tighten the bolts till they stop then the blade grips havd to be turned to each posiyion by hand in witch they stay in that position...at the end of you grap thr flybar and lift it up it stays up...does not rewuire any force really just not as ROLLY as my beam E4 FBL or Mini titan v2 FBL or Erazor..should i just screw in the feathering shaft bolts untill they touch the outer thrust bearing and rely on JUST locktitr to give it the grip? or actually titan them down till they stop snug as to not exert any real force on the bearing



  9. #9

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    RE: Xcell furion 450 owners in need your help please

    so your saying that if you take your main blades off and spool up the your furion that the heli wont even buzz the table finely? i just finished putting my furion back together and spooled it up on my table,and its head is running pretty smoothly very very slight wobble not enough to even move the heli during spool up accept for a slight movement to the left and once at full speed the table has a fine buzz but if i dont hold the heli in one place it will slowly glide around the table is this acceptable? or are you talking a champagne glass on a lexus hood while ideling kind of smooth? to be honest if i glued a flat piecr of wood on top of the boom then i think i have my furion running smooth enough to keep the glass on top...lol..but if the heli should not even buzz at all i find that hard to believe do to all the parts of the rotor head would have to be perfectly balanced like going by thousandths of and inch measurements.Am i looking ok or should i break it down more

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    RE: Xcell furion 450 owners in need your help please

    Ok, i'll take one thing at a time here,

    Feathering shaft bolts - yes, these have to be snugged up quite tight, i also use a tiny spot of blue locktite. And your quite right, they are stiff to turn when you first do this, this is normal. Dont worry, the thrust races will sort it out when the helicopter flies.

    The main gear - i would replace the gear, it's quite a cheap part and could be a cause of vibration if it's warped.

    And last - I've never tried to spool it up on a table, but if i did, i would expect some movemnt on a smooth surface, so i think your good on this.

    Get the main gear running true, and go out and enjoy this wonderful little helicopter. It's extremely high quality and should last for many years if you dont crash.

  11. #11

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    RE: Xcell furion 450 owners in need your help please

    ok so all the above is normal,and the heli buzzeing on the table whiled spooled should be normal i should think.Thank you very much for answering these questions for me'i really appreciate it.

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    RE: Xcell furion 450 owners in need your help please

    Pleased to help.

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    RE: Xcell furion 450 owners in need your help please

    Also i followed the manual for the servo to swash plate links,matching them on the manual and measuring the exact lengths by holding the links face down on the manual,and with the servo horns at 90 degrees the mixing arms are also 90 degrees.How ever i also matched the swash plate to blade grip arms on the manual and with that the arms on the blade grips are not 90 nor are the blade grips at 0 degrees pitch.The swash to blade grip arms are too short at this adjustment.Did you follow these adjustments or did you use your own as it was needed to work.

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    RE: Xcell furion 450 owners in need your help please


    ORIGINAL: rcpilot1982

    Also i followed the manual for the servo to swash plate links,matching them on the manual and measuring the exact lengths by holding the links face down on the manual,and with the servo horns at 90 degrees the mixing arms are also 90 degrees.How ever i also matched the swash plate to blade grip arms on the manual and with that the arms on the blade grips are not 90 nor are the blade grips at 0 degrees pitch.The swash to blade grip arms are too short at this adjustment.Did you follow these adjustments or did you use your own as it was needed to work.
    Your absolutely correct. The three link's from servo to swashplate are as the manual because they put the swashplate at the correct height, but the two long one's were lenthened (i think)to put the mixing lever on the blade grip level whwn viewed from the side, which also put's the blade grip a zero deg's.

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    RE: Xcell furion 450 owners in need your help please

    And again thank you for answering (:


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    RE: Xcell furion 450 owners in need your help please


    ORIGINAL: rcpilot1982

    And again thank you for answering (:


    Yeah, not a problem. I am supprised though, generally speaking, americans only buy american goods, build and fly american aircraft but not in the case of the little furion it seems. If you were to ask the same question's about the Align t-rex helicopters, you would get any amount of people willing to give their advice and i'm not sure why.

    I have been flying MA x-cells since 1989 and absolutlly love them, although when they changed to the fury line back in 1999-2000 i kind of lost it a bit with them and switched to hirobo.

    I still have two of them from the early 1990's in perfect condition. I'm going to try and convert my furion to flybarless soon. The only thing i think i'll need to buy is the anti-rotation for the inner swashplate, everything else is on the heli already. I will post on here how i get on if your interested.

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    RE: Xcell furion 450 owners in need your help please

    yes please do write me with your,updates.I will be making my furion flybarless as well,as i have a few ideas.Simply chopping off one end of the washout arms is the easy way,and then installing the A arms on the longer ends after drilling the holesseems a bit crude or micky mouse to me as a machinist,i might make my own center hub,but i think the best way would be to use a trex center hub and arms as it works perfect,as per another members idea.

    As far as my reasoning for why i wanted the Furion,the Beam E4 advance FBL,the Thunder Tiger mini Titan v2 FBL,and soon to be the Beam E4 Advance SE, is TOP QUAlITY....as a veteran machinist of 15 years and my father who has been a machinist since he moved here from Italy in the late 1960's we can both say that you will not get better quality than rither these helis.Shore there are some new models that keep entering the seen who can match like the Mini protos,SAAB, Italian made,and some others that lok forward to owning soon.

    Thr Furion the beam the mini titan,are as good of quality as you can get. the very tight tolorences that are plus or minus 1000, the perfect machining and finishing are as good as can be made by hand,as if i was to engineer a custom chopper witch i have done.


    My love of machines,and quality ones made me choose these.I want a trex 450 DFC,and any Trex but i dont like what i keep hering about the poor quality.I just dont get it? the Trex is suppposed to be top notch but all i hear are even from owners of them is to not get one??

    I like Align and have some stuff from them that are made really nice,although my Align digital AP800 jumps from positive 12 to positive 33..... ) :

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    RE: Xcell furion 450 owners in need your help please

    I've never owned a T-rex, but i have built many for others, and to be fair, they fly as well as anything i have, but....the quality of the parts and the fit are not as good as MA or hirobo. The hardware is especially bad. I think they are so popular because of the price of spares and you get two in a pack.

    Your also correct about the anti rotation for the inner swashplate. I will probably go for the align 450 one, i dont want to cut the washout arms in-case i ever want to put it back to flybarred.

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    RE: Xcell furion 450 owners in need your help please

    yes leaving the stock parts alone so you can easily go back is smart.I dont know ,im having a hard time with this bumping in the swashplate thing,other people are saying that while there head has a tiny wobble at low speed,they cant feel it in the swashplate?? that is basically what this tiny bumping feeling is,as the wobble happens you can feel it in the swash.

    Are you sur that with the main blades off you put one finger on the swash,and grab the flybar,you spin the rotor head you dont feel the low speed wobble in the swash at all??
    I also took out the jesus bolt to dissconnect it from the main shaft and then,spun the rotor head letting the main shaft spin through the bearings and i still feel the wabble from the head through the swash

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    RE: Xcell furion 450 owners in need your help please

    Yeah, mine is turbine smooth. If i had your furion in my hand i could find out whats going on in minutes, but it's difficult without even seeing the heli.

    These things are a prosess of elimination. Are you creating the wobble because of a rough bearing, remember the swashplate is really just a bearing with a ball in the middle.

    Can you take off the T\R drive belt from the main gear and see if that helps ?

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    RE: Xcell furion 450 owners in need your help please

    Turbine smooth huh? yeah man the only thing that stopped this bumping was removing or stopping rotation of the washout base????? but there is not much to mess up there.

    So the slight wabble is normal,but feeling it through the swash is not.You know i have a cheaper Erazor 450 pro that has a worse wobble,yet i can not feel it through the swash so????

    i have always been good with diagnostics but i take off the center washout base it smooths out i put it back on it comes back,and i install the rest of the head it gets worse..i eaven swapped main rotor hub with new one and nothing changed,eaven the rotor hub by itself wobbles slight but thats normal

    yeah man i just started turning the rotor head by hand slowly and i can clearly see the swashplate rocking up and down...it is rocking up and down as the head spinns...could you tell me what that is...bent main shaft? although the shaft does not seem bent there is some light vibration ss i spool up with the head completly off

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    RE: Xcell furion 450 owners in need your help please

    Has it been crashed ?

    Is it possible to up-load a video of whats going on close up ?

  23. #23

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    RE: Xcell furion 450 owners in need your help please

    No its never flown,basically the swash is moving up and down just like my copter x 450 pro witch has a bent main shaft.Its just hard to believe its bent in this since it has no flights

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    RE: Xcell furion 450 owners in need your help please


    ORIGINAL: rcpilot1982

    No its never flown,basically the swash is moving up and down just like my copter x 450 pro witch has a bent main shaft.Its just hard to believe its bent in this since it has no flights
    Is there some tightness between the 'A' links and washout arms or do they move freely under their own weight ?

  25. #25

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    RE: Xcell furion 450 owners in need your help please

    well they are a tiny bit stiff,if i fold the washout arms upward they stay up...but are not tight,should they be floppy? dude i swear that i took the rotor head completly off and left the main gear assembly hooked up,and the swash plate on,and turned the throttle up untill the rotoir head started to spin really slowly per custom super super soft startup using my Castle creations ice 50 esc,and the swash plate runs really smoothly just like a turbine,but once i add the first piece the washout hub and assembly with the A arms attached to it and the A arms attached to the swash plate and then the washout arms bolted to it and free to fold up and down like an acordian.....if i let this assembly spin then the swash wobbles a bit.

    Basically forget about the knocking feel i was describing,as this simply is the swash lightly wobbling up and down.But once i grab the center washout hub and stop this assembly from spinning,the entire draive train goes smooth,the swash plate is smooth as can be.

    What makes me mad is that i have cheap clones,that have a really wobbly head and i feel the swash plate and i cant feel any of this.

    From reading from some online info i found alot of questions about this same wobbly swash plate issue i am having with many different helicopters,and one guy fixed it with a new main shaft.He said that he eaven tested the main shaft for trueness,with a MIRROR test,i am assuming thsat is is the flattest surface most people can find,and although the main shaft checked out fine,it apparently was not since he went and replaced the main shaft anyway and this wobby swash plate stopped.

    Another thing is that i took the swash plate appart once and pulled the bearings out and reseated them and i belive this problem smoothed out for a while,in witch it came back.


    Basically its like this.I know you said that in your hands you can find out in minutes,and God i wish you lived near me...lol...but its like this so far i have removed the entire head....i leave the swash plate on and of course main shaft,and spool her up and leave her at a slow speed.I look at the swash and feel it and the main shaft and the shaft looks streight,and the swash does not wobble at all,and with a finger resting on it it is smooth as silk.


    I add this first bottom center washout hub assembly and let it spin with the swash plate.......the swash starts wobbling very lightly and you have to look at it to notice,and a finger on the swash plate reveals vibration...i stop this assembly from spinning with a finger and the vibration completly goes away.

    should the washout arms flop around much looser? they are not tight but i have to manually fold them up or down in witch they stay where you put them....just stiff enough to stay wjhere you put them but not loose enough to fall back down on there own.




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