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turbine scale heli

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Old 10-30-2003, 06:49 PM
  #1
copter_ace
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Default turbine scale heli

I'm in the market for a scale turbine heli. I like the Dauphin from vario I have been quoted for this model built with all the extras ready to run (except Radio) $10,000. Does this sound like a good price? Does anyone know what other brand and model I can also get quoted on?
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Old 11-01-2003, 05:31 PM
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Default RE: turbine scale heli

j1940us there are a few scale heli's available at this time that are geared for turbine power. i will list them for you.

1/4 scale jet ranger - Vario (available end of year)
1/4.5 scale Hughes 500e - Vario
1/7 scale Tow Cobra - Vario
1/6 EC135 - Vario
1/4 Bell 212 Airstar Int./ Vario USA
NH90 - Graupner
Sikorsky S76 - Scalejet
MIL Hind24D -Scalejet
1/6 Scale Tow Cobra - Len Mount
1/5.6 Scale Bell 205 Huey - Len Mount
1/7 scale Dauphin N4 - Len Mount
1/8 BlackHawk - ScaleHeli.de
1/8.6 Super Puma - ScaleHeli.de
1/8 SeaHawk - ScaleHeli.de



[link=http://www.variousa.com]Vario USA[/link]
[link=http://www.lenmountscalefuselages.com]Len Mount[/link]
[link=http://www.v-eastonline.com/ScaleJetFUSE.htm]Scalejet Helicopters[/link]
[link=http://www.v-eastonline.com]V-East / Graupner[/link]
[link=http://www.scaleheli.de/scaleheli/startindex.html]ScaleHeli[/link]



And if you are looking for some really big turbine helis there are some in the 3 meter rotor size.

[link=http://www.scale-heli.at/]Scale-Heli.at[/link]

There will be some new stuff coming out from vario early next year that is designed for there XLV turbine mechanics, No one will say what that is yet! My best guess is that they will have a Airwolf, Bell 230, and maybe a EC120. this is just my guess.....


and i would have to say that 10,000 is a bit high for a finished Vario Dauphin turbine powered.

The HP5 sells for - 3895.00
the dauphin fuse - 470.00
misc parts for Dauphin - 1500.00 (tail, head, blades, retracts, scale parts, etc...)
total for parts - 5,900.00
build and paint 4,000.00 to build and paint the heli

total 10,000.00

you will be spending 6 to 7,000.00 for a scale turbine heli which will included all radio gear.


Alan...[:@]
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Old 11-25-2003, 09:59 PM
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Default RE: turbine scale heli

Alan Thank you for the info on the models and the manufacture's websites.
What do you think of the JetCat mechanics is the belt reliable? What do you think of the Jakadofsky?

this is exactly what I was quoted :
Vario Dauphin2 AS 365
Dauphin2 AS 365 turbine exhaust
Vario 4-blade Head for HRW 12mm
Jet cat HP5
Fenestron tail drive system
Fenestron complete for EC 1340
GRP 4-blade set 1680mm
Retractable landing gear
Servos, Gyro, RX
Every accessory available, serch light, rescue lowering kit, etc.
Build, and Paint
For $10,510

Do you think this is very high? If so please let me what you suggest.

Regards,

Alex
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Old 11-27-2003, 02:50 AM
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Default RE: turbine scale heli

Hello Alex i did some calculations and came up with a 6,500 price. and i may be off by 200.00 to 300.00. If 4,000.00 is a average build fee then i guess the quoted price is OK. but for me 4 k to build a scale heli is to high.

I can not comment on the Jakadofsky unit but i do like the HP5 and i have not had an issue with the belt drive. i have logged 10 hrs and no signs of wear so far.

The Vario dauphine is a nice heli but i don't think the HP5 will fit and i have concerns on the exhaust pipe, i don't think the pipe will fit and or it will not be scale. you may want to look at the dauphine from Len Mount as this one is designed for turbines.


Alan
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Old 12-07-2003, 11:38 AM
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Default RE: turbine scale heli

Hi, I am building the Len Mount Cobra with the Jakadofsky PJ-W-R Turbine ..... I would be more than happy to answere any questions you may have .... As far as Price well .. The Cobra with Mechanics (You Left that out of your Quote above as well as Exhaust) Turbine without Radio is about $9800 ... it's hard to put a price on building but .... I have done a few Vario Dauphins for about $2500 Labor Only .... Mind you they were SuperScale .... Sport Scale is about $500 less .... With the Dauphin the Problem or HIGH Cost will be the Exhaust! Looking at $1200 ... Have a look at www.tamjets.com He makes real nice exhaust systems for the Turbines ...

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Old 12-07-2003, 05:01 PM
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Default RE: turbine scale heli

I would personally buy the Vario Jetcopter..... IT IS ONLY $5,300.00 with everything! Heli kit/Jetcat HP5 turbine/ECU/mechanics. Also- do yourself a favor and build it yourself, you'll then know how to fix it and maintenance it should you need to in the future, which, of course you will need to! Also Vario does have a set up option thats about $200.00!!!!!......Whomever is charging 4 GRAND for building/painting a turbine heli, even with paint on a scale fuselage is smoking crack, and huffing glue......4K is UNBELIEVEABLE for a build and paint. Thats practically the price of a ENTIRE second VARIO JETCOPTER. Think about that for a second. But I suppose if your time is worth more to you than the 4 grand your paying someone to build it for you, then go for it! I understand for some people building themselfs just isnt a option, I just think 4K is about 2.5K too much. $1,500.00 for a complete build/paint sounds much more reasonable to me....(1K to build, and $500.00 for paint) I do autobody/paint for a living, so I think I got the paint part pegged pretty well, and that would include muti color paint and or graphics too, PLUS using polyurethane automotive paints/clear coat.
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Old 12-07-2003, 06:14 PM
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Default RE: turbine scale heli

Todd...you have to understand that building a scale helicopter to Sport Scale status Plus, getting the Mechanics in and prepped. then Painted takes a couple Hundred Hours ..... My Question is ...... What is your Time worth Per Hour? Not Picking a Fight or anything like that ... just trying to make people aware that it is better to build yourself but, if you plan on someone else building be prepaired to PAY the Price ..... Just checked on a Quart of PPG RED ..... $226 !! Without Catylist or reducers!! I won't paint for less than $500 for a Single Color on a LARGE Model .. the Price does go down for the Small helo's though ... Sport scale is cheaper yet ... When you have to match paint FINISH (Flat, matte or whatever) along with Rivet detail it runs into Time and Money! Scale helicopters or anything else for that matter is in the Detail work .. the more Detail, The More Money ...
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Old 12-07-2003, 09:31 PM
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Default RE: turbine scale heli

The going price currently for a "panel" to be painted (not the marked up insurance quote crap either) I.E. fender, hood, roof, rear decklid, etc. is $250.00. I know this number from working in metro Denver Colorado doing collision repair for local autobody shops, over the past 7 years. Thats paint/materials, and labor, prep, etc. If your a good painter, even the biggest model helicopter I have seen isnt going to use more paint than a "panel". If your talking about building a scale helicopter to the absolute best world standard to win a prize, then thats something completely different. I can tell you I dont pay anywhere near $227.00 for a quart or PPG red, I get bulk wholesale discounts on my paints. Even if I two tone painted a HUGE scale heli body for $500.00, I might have 150.00 in paint, and probably less than 10 hours prep time, assuming the body is molded well. I think thats plenty of profit, for me. But then again, I am not doing it for a living.
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Old 12-09-2003, 12:13 AM
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Default RE: turbine scale heli

All i can say is that 1,500 for a set of frames, rails, two gears, bearing blocks and a main shaft is crazy..... for 1,500 he should included the head and tail for that price.



Alan...
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Old 12-09-2003, 10:51 AM
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Default RE: turbine scale heli

Turbine Helicopters are NOT for everyone .... They are Costly and Mechanic sets for this application are experimental and expensive as well ... Bottom line is Quality Costs. A top of the Line Gasser will do most a Great job ...
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Old 12-10-2003, 04:18 AM
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Default RE: turbine scale heli

This reply is form someone who has never built a helo. But my resume includes: Propmaster in Holywood building scale f-18's for Independance Day, varios ships for the Star Trek series ETC. I did a Rothmans replica RC-51 GP bike and I was into it about $320 for 5 different colors. Half quarts were only $40. And that was Sikkens paint (german factory paint)! Put rothmans RC51 in a google search and you will see the bike next to my old Lear60). I will start a 1:25 scale Concorde for my personal collection next month and it will take me about 2 weeks to do all the paint and details including fabrication of the gear. How much is my time worth? I fly a Gulfstream GIV-SP and get $1,100 a day + expenses. I spent many nights building and painting my old roomates large scale RC Jets and Helos because I enjoed the artistic freedom. He would always come back from the field with positive comments from people who saw my work. That was payment enough. 5K to build a helo...tell them to go pack sand. Get someone local to help you out and get the experience. It will be a much rewarding experince.
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Old 12-18-2003, 09:51 AM
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Old 12-22-2003, 03:27 PM
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Default RE: turbine scale heli

Your right DR. TIM! My 2 year technical degree in autobody/paint and collision repair, AND 8 years in the auto/paint field only allows me to repair $40,000.00 BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Porsche, and other high end european autos....... But as for those really nice PLASTIC SCALE RC HELICOPTERS bodys which cost $1,000.00 I havent a CLUE......W.T.F. was I thinking even writting my thoughts on such a topic anyways? I can make a $40K sports car thats been DESTROYED look brand new again, but I have NO business even THINKING my skills are up to the MONUMENTAL task of simply spraying a scale PLASTIC/FIBERGLASS body, to "scale" standards. I guess I better stick to what I know how to do, and not comment on topics/tasks which are way beyond my abilities.......Funny how I have the top 5 insurance companies in the USA lined up at my front business door with more repairs than I could possibly do, and waiting in line for a month or LONGER just to use my body shop! Guess I got them all fooled, too. Thanks for bringing me back to reality DR Tim. Would you please call the insurance companies I work for and inform them of all the "EXPERIENCE/EDUCATION" you claim I am lacking? THAT IS WHAT YOU WERE IMPLYING.......RIGHT? After all, only a "DR" (3rd world PHD) or USA medical "MD" could possibly build a scale helicopter!
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Old 12-23-2003, 11:31 AM
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Default RE: turbine scale heli

WOW, IM going to put this thread on my "TO WATCH" list.
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Old 12-23-2003, 12:09 PM
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Default RE: turbine scale heli

Hmmm Sukhoipilot grabs chair and runs to microwave to grab popcorn, this is going to get interesting, I will say this though, while I kind of agree with Todd, Being in the "Custom Motorcycle" Business we do alot of high end paint stuff and I know exactly what it takes to do a multi-colored prep and paint but I dont see that I could do something the size of a scale heli for less than $1000.00 and if you are talking about the average joe buying all the needed supplies and paint and doing it himself then the price is expotential from there.
And Todd believe me that I am not trying to start anything with you because overall I agree, but you said it yourself you buy paint in bulk at a discounted rate! and most people dont have that option and when you are dealing with painters from my experiance at least, #1 a good painter is hard to find! #2 most GOOD painters dont want to be bothered with something like a heli or plane because the time that it takes them to prep and paint it they could have done 3 cars and made 3 times the money, so they are going to go by the "how bad do you want it done, directly corresponds to how much you will pay" rule. also remember that in this day and age the amount of money you spend dirrectly corresponds to what kind of qaulity you get.
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Old 12-23-2003, 02:02 PM
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Default RE: turbine scale heli

I wouldnt paint a scale helicopter for less than a grand either when it comes right down to it, but to charge ANOTHER 4GRAND to install a basic pod/boom mechanic apperatus into a plastic body, is where my issue with the 5GRAND to "build" a scale heli comes into play......Thats all, nothing more, and nothing less. And yes, generally you DO get what you pay for, allthough just because you pay 5K for someone to assemble/paint/set-up a scale helicopter doesnt mean you didnt pay 3K more than whats ACTUALLY reasonable. I gather Dr Tim is in the business of building scale helicopters and thats the only reason he would argue the 5K price is reasonable. Aside from installing a plastic/fiberglass body around a BASIC setup helicopter, I just dont see where this vast gap in "education/experience" DR TIM is speaking of, between a basic pod/boom helicopter, and its "scale" counterpart.....Am I missing something?!? I didnt think so. They are the EXCACT SAME IN EVERY SENCE, ASIDE FROM A PLASTIC SHELL that covers the mechanics!! Thats like saying a crotch rocket motorcycle, and a Harley Davidson arent the same because one has a plastic fairing around the frame/engine, and therefore the "crotch rocket" takes a PHD and 5K to build, while the Harley can be assembled by a methamphetamine addict for $5.00. If someone has and wants to spend 5K on a scale helicopter they have allready purchased, for simply having it assembled.....go right ahead. Just dont ***** when you figure out you got F$%^&$.
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Old 12-23-2003, 02:39 PM
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Default RE: turbine scale heli

Ok here is where I can see the VAST differance and here is my example

Take a stock raptor and wrap a Jet Ranger Shell around it, you your average methamphetamine junky could do it in 10 minutes flat no big deal.

Now Take a Turbine powered, fenstrom tailed, scale headed 1/5 scale chopper and I can definetely see where some knowledge and a certain skill level would come into play.

Now I am not saying 4k is too much and I am not saying that 4k is ok, since I have never built one of these helos I cant speak from experiance but what nobody has said here is "what" is he getting for his 4k? build, paint, set-up and test flown? what kind of detail is going into it? top gun qaulity? average fly it every sunday quality? it all depends on as I said WHAT is he getting for his 4k.
I would say the bottom line is its all personal perspective of is he getting what he thinks his money is worth, example being that my roommate scratch built a cocpit for an RCU members 1/3 scale FW-190 it took a little over 2 months and who knows how many hours with every switch, gauge etc being fabricated and he only charged the guy like $200.00, personally I though he was nuts and I would have charged him at least $800.00!
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Old 12-23-2003, 05:00 PM
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Default RE: turbine scale heli

guys I never said I was quoted 4-5K for the build. After reading you replies I did some research and I got another quote from a diffrent source. He says the cost for the build is $2,300-2,500(Top gun quality). In parts there is around $8,200

This is exactly what I was quoted :
Vario Dauphin2 AS 365
Dauphin2 AS 365 turbine exhaust, Made to scale
Vario 4-blade Head for HRW 12mm
Swashplate Driver 12mm
Jet cat HP5
Fenestron tail drive system
Claw coupler 5mm shaft
Fenestron complete for EC 1340
GRP 4-blade set 1680mm
Rotor shaft 12mm EC 135 turbine
swashplate for hrw 12mm
Fuel tank for kerosine
Dauphin2 as 365 Specially made for this heli
Digital Retractable landing gear
Cockpit with instruments & safety belts
Pilot, entry/maintenace steps, screen wipers, aerials, rotor head cap, magnet for all doors, fittings set dauphin, fuel tank valve faring, refuelling valve, navigation lamps, rotary light, scale searchlight
Servos, Gyro, 9channel RX
Every accessory available, serch light, rescue lowering kit, etc.
build, paint(top gun quaility), set-up and test flown
For $10,510

Regards,

Alex
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Old 12-24-2003, 01:28 PM
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Default RE: turbine scale heli

I would say 2,300 to 2,500 is VERY reasonable for a top quality build/paint/set-up, and I also imagine whomever gave that quote has no shortage of business, and a reasonable amount of profit working with those numbers. I sure wouldnt have problem one with those numbers and quality of parts.....except maybe having a extra 10.5K laying around for a new toy, LOL. WAY out of my price range at least for now.[&o]
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Old 12-24-2003, 09:11 PM
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Default RE: turbine scale heli

Damn it now I really feel like an ass, oh well yeah 2500 seems way ok to me.
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Old 12-27-2003, 11:44 AM
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Default RE: turbine scale heli

Hey j1940us, why dont you post the name of the facility whos building scale turbine helicopter in the $2,500-$2,800 range.....I think with all the new scale turbine models that have recently been introduced theres probably more than a few people looking for a quality, reasonably priced, build/set-up/paint for their new scale turbine project, and Im sure they would really appreciate being pointed into the right direction. Its certainly a name I wouldnt mind filing away into the old rolodex....For customers who have projects I am not interested to paint, or simply dont have the time to do.....I a happy to refer people to reasonably priced quality shops, and perhaps in the future I might be able to contact them myself for my own project thats long overdue!
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Old 12-30-2003, 12:11 AM
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Default RE: turbine scale heli

WOW... ive never had a heli but i built a micro heli for my friend and i thought it was tough!! it took me like 5 hours for 3/4 of the job. his dad finished it. holy crap these turbine helis must be hard to build after seeing that price, not to mention the price of the heli itself!!! well im only 15 and i dont have money, so im thinking 400 for a new plane is expensive, but wow. so how do turbine helis fly? can they get as wild as gas helis? i saw a video of a scale NH 90 i think, and it just kinda hovered around. i guess the guy didnt want to destroy it. why is painting this thing so expensive?? i obviously dont belong in this forum
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Old 01-01-2004, 02:52 PM
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Default RE: turbine scale heli

Todd .. Man, Didn't mean to get you upset .. What I was saying is ; With the Build, Prep, Rivet Detail, setting the Windows, Fitting the Doors and so forth is ALL part of the Finish. I was NOT saying that Just the Prep and Paint was. It is a great deal of work to complete a Scaler to show status and $2500 sounds pretty Fair ... I do A Great deal of Scratch Building of Components such as Weapons, Seats, Lighting and so forth .. This turns into time and I ask a few dollars for this time... I do Apologize for getting you upset ... My remark above did come across as Sarcastic and I was Wrong ...



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Old 01-20-2004, 01:00 AM
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Default RE: turbine scale heli

Well I guess I had better put my money where my mouth is. This time tomorrow I should have a .60 scale BK 117 Vario on the front portch. As the very least If I am going to claim that anyone can build a Helio I should be that anyone. Wish me luck and I will post the crash pics......assuming I get it to fly
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Old 01-20-2004, 11:25 AM
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I have a feeling it will fly fine, as well as look "Top Gun" quality given your past experience in fabrication lear60man! Cant wait to see the detailed pictures after your thouroughly perfect assembly!
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