DSA.308

My Feedback: (6)

I just got my Tempest FAI kit along with a O.S. .91 C-SPEC-Pump version, Muscle 2 pipe, and OMI Viper head. I'll post some building photos as I get her all put together. The kit comes with a CD that you have to print out the directions/drawings.....There was 76 pages of written directions, and 50 pages of drawings! Nearlly ran my printer out of ink. I havent yet completely decided on the radio equiptment yet.....any suggestions? I am leaning towards the Futaba 9HZ WW2 radio, with Futaba 502 gyro, and servos, allthough I havent ruled out the JR 9X or 10X and JR gyro/servos. I am committed to get all the best stuff within reason as I dont intend to upgrade anything, and besides, that was the whole purpose of the project- to get what I want the first round. Anyways, looks to be a great winter project fer me, as I dont intend to fly until it warms, which, being in Colorado, will be a while!

ausheli

the 10x radio is excellent i have 1, but it does take a lot to understand how to program it properly read the instructions over and over.

GM1

I am currently flying the Tempest FAI with a YS 91, Hatori exhaust, Futaba 9Z WC2 with 9252 servos, a GY 601/9251. I really like this combination and find it to be the best for my current situation, trying to make the US World Team <fat chance> and the model is excellent and quite capable of winning performance. JR has the equivalent radio in performance but doesn't seem to be up to snuff in the gyro department, at least currently. The OS C Spec has nearly equal power to the YS and seems to work well for the guys that work with it. I personally like the set and forget performance of the YS but have nothing negative to say about the OS. The things you mentioned would make a good flying model so go for it.
Gordie

DSA.308

My Feedback: (6)

Heres the starting build photos, and the new engine too. If you ever wanted a kit that fit together perfectly, all the fasteners are high quality, and basically theres not a single piece of junk in the box.....Buy the new Tempest the quality of build parts looks like something NASA would approve wholeheartedly! Impressive stuff- to say the least. One dimension I was very surprised by was the thickness of the right and left frames once assembled...It is under a inch thick in width, and is just incredibly slim, but yet a super rigid structure.

DSA.308

My Feedback: (6)

Heres the finishing build photos, it is finally starting to look like something recognizable.....Now I've got to take the canopy and fins over to the body shop for a unique paint job. I'm using Sikkens primer/sealer & base/clear, but I'm Not sure about graphics or colors yet- I am thinking the brighter the better. The tail linkage, while a little high on parts count, is silky smooth. All the aluminum parts in the kit have a super high quality titanium colored anodizing. I was going to sand and polish all the anodized parts, before building the kit, but it takes so much work to keep polished aluminum looking good! So I decided to just leave the anodizing, because its easy to keep looking tops, and titanium anodize looks trick anyways.

ausheli

I agree with you Todd have almost completed building my extreme and was totally impressed with the build and fit of the kit i also ordered the tempest tail control as a bit of an upgrade, that is such a nice piece of well engineered equipment, all in all i found the kit almost relaxing to build, i say almost because by the end of building the tail gearbox, build it check it, strip it fit shim check it , strip it remove shim build it, i was a little frustrated but what a great kit cant wait for that first flight [>:]

DSA.308

My Feedback: (6)

I think I ended up building almost everything twice, and somethings I built 3 times! LOL.... I decided at the start of this project I was going to invest in all the correct tools (dial indicator, delrin crankshaft lock tool, digital scale, swashplate level, etc, etc, etc) and really take my time building to gain a seperior flying model. I would guess I have about 50 hours in the mechanics and building of the kit. I went ahead and decided to take the long road in the instructions whenever a choice was presented (red locktightening the bearings, etc, etc) so I hope that first fligh rewards me with a rock solid hover with no hint of vibration whatsoever in the mechanics. I have to admit $1,200.00 is a LOT of money for a simple M.A. X-Cell Tempest FAI "kit", but with the huge amount of engineering, and quality of parts that make up the M.A. kits, I certainly feel not only like it was money well spent, but also in relation to the quality of the kit, a excellent value too. I doubt there is another 90 size machine I would have been happier with at any price, from what I've seen. Theres certainly a couple models on the market that are every bit as capable and high quality, but I am a M.A. customer for life as I see it at this point.

Even running the fuel tubing on this one was a new experience for me...Lots of lines! The idea with the OS.91 pump version engine is to use a return line, and essentially the pump overpressurizes the system- any amount of fuel is available on demand from small to large, but when it isnt needed, it simply goes into the overflow line and just goes right back into the tank, to be recirculated again.

ausheli

We're running virtually the same set up man, pretty flash looking fuel line there Todd, have fun

DSA.308

My Feedback: (6)

Yea, the tubing is a little bright, lol. I wanted to simply buy "clear" believe it or not, and keep the whole thing looking really nuetral, but they didnt have any when I needed it. I'll have to simply swap it out before I allow anyone to see it in person, for fear they wont take me seriously anymore....

Hey Ausheli, are you running 'negative' or 'positive' 'delta' on the flybar assembly as far as the configuration of the different ball links/arms/linkages? The manual says -3.3 Neg. has been the most common set-up, then the wriiten directions go on to describe building the positive delta set up, only to show the NEGATIVE cofiguration AFTER you have allready built the positive configuration! It took me about a hour to disasemble the entire unit to rebuild in the -3.3 negative configuration. M.A. explained the negative delta gives a more stable disk, and isnt as quick to move on inputs, where the positive configuration(s) is more reactive to inputs and faster moving too, better for 3D, but less stable......Whats your experience, and what type of configuration are you running?

ausheli

ahhh so grass hopper has learned to read the ENTIRE manual BEFORE construction as for the delta, i've set my flybar control links with a -10 degree which the manual recommends for 3d flying and then for the bell mixing ratio's I'm going to be using the normal 1:1 ratio for a start, but once i've got that set up change over to the 1:1.3 3d only mixing, i think the set up on the tempest FAI is different from the extreme because of the different types of flying that they are ultimately designed for the FAI is designed for FAI and the extreme is designed for 3D, if you like i could e-mail the pages from the extreme manual that describe the set up's

DSA.308

My Feedback: (6)

To be honest I doubt if I had read the manual word for word before building I would have caught that little blip in the instructions, as this is my first MA so I was completely unfamiliar with the layout of anything. But yes, I could use detailed directions for different linkage arrangements as the manual I downloaded (the latest revision) only describes the positive config building wise in word form, and then also shows the neg. design in a drawing, which is easy enough to then build what you want, but it only shows the linkages hooked up in the pos. config. I'll PM you my email Ausheli if its something you have handy, otherwise I'll just contact M.A. when I get to hooking up the radio/servos. Thanks for the help, sure helps to have allready gotten it sorted to be able to explain how it should be built to someone whos still learning.....I really appreciate the help.

ausheli

Thats cool Todd, this is my first MA heli, come to think about it, it's my first kit [X(] I'm stepping up from my venture 30 and it was an ARF, but being an underground mining mechanic i'm a stickler for perfection and following the directions to the letter, i actually read the manual 6 times before i even started building the extreme and made sure i read and fully understood each step of construction before i started, just habit i guess

AdamB

My Feedback: (9)

Todd, what delta did you end up using. I too built the head, then had to change over to the -3 delta.

I got a chance to hover the other day, and must say I thought the heli would sit tighter in a hover.

I have a XL-Pro with Pro II paddles and the FAI head. I have 40 grams in the paddles and was hoping for pretty stabe hover, but it wasn't all that stable.

Don't know if I should go lower negative, or switch to positve delta.

DSA.308

My Feedback: (6)

Adam, I have gone ahead and built the -3.3 delta for now, but I havent had a chance yet to hover or fly at all, yet. I am still in the process of purchasing, and installing the radio equiptment. So since you didnt seem to have the stability you wanted at -3 whats your next step? I suppose you could mess with different weight, and style paddles or blades, before trying a different linkage set-up to try and dial in a more stable machine, also you might get some good results playing with the cyclic expo..... Depending on the radio you are using there might be some set-ups some of the factory guys are using on-line too, that might be of help. Let me know what you end up using....

AdamB

My Feedback: (9)

Todd, I run a Futaba 8UHPS. I usually like my heli's w/o expo, but I did dial in 10 % on this one.

I only had a set of Hi-Products 675mm blades that I used, My SAB 680's only have the 4 mm holes and I'm having them milled out. I should get my SAB's back this weekend. Also, I set it to hover 1700 rpms like my .46 and 30's, but I'll try and slow it down to 1500 or so to see if that helps.

I probably will tamper with the bell/ hiller mixing before changing the -delta. I have the 1:0.9, and I may switch to the 1:0.75, but after I switch my head speed and main blades.

BTW, I've read about people placing their pitch arms leading and some placing it lagging on the blade mounts... do you have any comments on this?

I set my head up exactly like drawing 1H, in the Tempest FAI rotor head instrutions, granted your picture is probably labeled something different, but it is the -3 delta.

DSA.308

My Feedback: (6)

I am not sure about the pitch arms being mounted leading/aft, Adam.....I simply went with the manual suggestions until I start fine tuning it to my own style/taste.

AdamB

My Feedback: (9)

Same here, which showed them leading...

I actually put on 680 mm FAI blades, with 95 mm tailblades (I am only running 31.5" boom), and slowed the head speed down to 1600 rpms, and she was very stable in stock form with stock set-ups.

Guess I'll leave her alone for a while.

Next thing I would do is change hiller ratio's, but that comes after some more flying with it set like it is...

Prophex

Todd, you are saying 1.200.000 $ is a lot !!!, I'm just starting and to buy myself a Rptor .30 V2 (so not as strong as yours) I have to spend about 2.000.000 $ !!! (ofcourse it also includes the transmitter, tools and a flight sim ... [&:])

now that is a lot !!!

ragards,
Prophex
[sm=punching.gif]

Boomstriker

Todd,
Are you really using the 9253's on collective, ele and ail on that .90?
That servo is extremely fast (for HH tails) but very short on torque- it's less than 30 oz./in.
They have a very weak gear-train and won't hold-up with those high loads.
I would think at least 50 oz./in. on cyclic and no less than 70 on the collective would be on the safe side.

Kirk

DSA.308

My Feedback: (6)

Thanks for the suggestion Kirk, I hadnt yet installed the radio or servos yet, so Ill take your advice and find a stronger unit to install. Whats typically being used in those respective places you just mentioned in the Digital Futaba line?

Prophex, actually the $1,200.00 is just the kit.......I have another $650.00 in the engine/pipe/head/ and some other small parts. So.....I have about $2,000.00 invested, and another $2,000.00 to go! I am hoping I can be done around the $4K point, all inclusive.[:@] But hey, I am not complaining!

Boomstriker

I stopped using Futabas after lots of failures with high dollar servos- the 9253 included.
I have a lot of JRs in use now but if I need a new one, I go with Hitec.
They are just as good and half the price.
A good coreless would be fine in there but you can get a digi now for the same price.
The 56xx and 59xx are great.

Kirk

Prophex

where can you buy an X-cell fury ?

DSA.308

My Feedback: (6)

I actually have a few Hitec 5945 servos allready.......Would those do the trick for the 3 cyclic servos that are needed? I know it is important these 3 servos be matched as far as brand, and age. I used to use these servos alot on my 1/8 buggy, and also a 1/4 scale on-road car, so I happen to have 3 brand new units. I can say for ground use at least, they worked GREAT until they failed, which happened frequently, allthough Hitec allways repaired them. I really want to stick with all one brand equiptment only though, and was committed to buy all top-line Futaba so I might have look at all the options before the radio purchase. Its a big decision.

Heres a couple pics of the Hitec servo eaters here:

DSA.308

My Feedback: (6)

Prophex, I would assume there is a distributor in your area or a international company you could source the fury kit from. Heliproz, is the company I got mine from I would guess they could provide you a kit.

bdphil

My Feedback: (26)

Todd,

I'm using the Futaba 9252 digitals on the head of my Tempest 3D. I haven't beat up on them yet, but I have very little concern that they will fail (I haven't had any Futaba servos fail yet). So far they center really well and seem to be very closely matched. I wouldn't hesitate to use the Hitec 5945's either. I'm using them in a few GS planes and none have given me any trouble.

There do seem to be a number of guys who've had 9253's crap out. I've got a few going on a couple years old, I think I'll start sending them in for a checkup.

Ben