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JR Helicopter Forum

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Old 09-04-2004, 11:10 AM
  #76
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Default RE: JR Helicopter Forum

Hi Larry,

Frustration reigns, I am desperate. I have done everything possible I know, and have read about. That kick in the tail just wont go. I have absolutly no doubt that it is the engine, you can hear it and see the kick when it happens. I have the rotor speed at 1550 rpm, I tried a few different speeds between 1350 and 1600. 1550 seems the best at this stage ( or the one that has the least tail kick ). My Tacho is rather fancy and works well excpet they forgot to put a on/off switch on the thing and I have to pull the battery out to switch it off. I used up 7 tanks today and this includes the header which I fitted, so quite a bit of fuel has gone through the engine. I turned those needles literally from fully closed to nearly fully opened 2 clicks at a time. I started from the factory setting and tried. I tried with the mid speed needle fully closed and only adjusted the idle and high speed. The splutter is at mid stick more or less, and this has led me to believe it is with the mid speed needle, but no matter how much adjustment I dont seem to get it right, and i really adjusted it today, it tried hard. I am going to try another carb tomorrow, it only has an idle and high speed needle, but I must narrow it down. Could I have somehow damaged my motor, that it refuses to run smoothly. I have replaced every single thing, all pipes, filters, glow plug ( 4 so far ). I have checked the tank for leaks ( put the tank under pressure in a bath of water. Could my tail pipe be the cause? It never did it in the beginning. If the other carb does not fix it tomorrow, I will be off to the hobby shop next week, have to drive there, some 300km away, and the guy there is just going to have to get it working. Anyway, I did improve my flying skills quite a bit today, and all is not lost, the kicking tail forces me to hover perfectly so that I can land. I did some nice fast forward flight and did some figure 8's, its the first time so I was rather chuffed about this, I do not use trainers any more, I figured as soon as I can hover I must take them off, just so that I dont get dependant on them. It is absolutly wonderful to have control over this thing, what a sense of achievement. Sorry for dumping my woes/problems on you Larry, nobody here would understand. Thanks for all your tips and advise. Besides the kick in the tail, I have got the Heli pretty well setup since talking to you, and flying a lot more stable.

Regards Shane
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Old 09-04-2004, 02:05 PM
  #77
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Default RE: JR Helicopter Forum

Hi shane,

If it was mine, I would reduce your center pitch curve down a little, and increase the throttle pitch up. Your rpm is to low. Try it at 1800 to 2000, re-trim the tail rotor. You may have to adjust the TR linkage to keep the servo centered. It may sound and act like a wild cat, but I bet the TR problem will go away. You can adjust you DR down to to keep the same feel. I still think the engine is bogging down, and your Gyro sensitivity may need adjusting after, have you tried sensitivity yet? If the Gyro tells the servo to correct , I believe right, (increase TR pitch), other than you controlling the tail will cause a sudden decrease in both engine and rotor rpm. I would not change the carb other than just troubleshooting or get the same type replacement. Try above to get the engine closer to its power curve. You can increase the main control rods one turn (on mine) to decrease pitch letting the engine rev higher at the same trottle setting, but the curves should do the same thing at hover. I never liked the Super Servo in my heli w/401 gyro, when I changed servos I also increased rotor rpm. By the book adjustments, I could not get over 1550 rotor rpm, so I can't say if the new TR fixed the problem or the increase in rpm. I changed the mechanical linkage and CCPM many times until I found the sweet spot. Now, I can't hardly keep the rotor rpm under 1900, but now it is smooth, total TR control extreme both directions with very little lose in rotor rpm. The carb adjustments wont help in a sudden loose of power it is only for transitions, and max engine rpm. I don't think the engine is causing the problem, it is being effected by the problem.

Keep the chin up, I need to hit the hobby store myself.

Larry
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Old 09-05-2004, 01:29 PM
  #78
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Hi Larry,

Too much wind today, had to just think about what I could be doing and did not have a chance to fly at all. My Plan is this, I am going to play with the RPM first and see how it goes. What you have said has sparked of a few thoughts, and having had the time to just think about my problems , I managed to work out a few different pitch and throttle curves. I think my problem is that I do not sytematically work through the different solutions. I have done a chart now of everything that can possibly cause this and will now systematically do one at a time and record the results, so that I have something I can look at afterwards and try and make some sense of it. I think my desire to get in the air is making me do half jobs at trying to solve this problem, and diligently eliminating each option one at a time. How is your project going? Do you build it completey when you start, or do you space it out over a few days or weeks. I would like to be like that guy at jason.net, just buy and build so many different models of these things, half the fun is in assembling them. I will definatly be getting another one at some stage.

Regards Shane
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Old 09-05-2004, 05:34 PM
  #79
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Hi shane,
I think you are on the right track, it will help you see the different effect after a change is made. Their are a multitude of combinations in the heli not counting the radio program changes. I think this would be easer if some how you could strap the heli down to a table or something solid so you can track each main rotor/TR rpm at the different throttle changes or system changes. Virtually every part of the heli can be tested, adjusted, and monitored with out fear of a crash and or MECHANIC ERROR (thats a new twist) forgetting to attach a rod or leaving a screw loose etc. Bungee cords or cargo straps work best, wrapped around each skid tube both front and rear. They allow enough movement to see how the heli will reacts to each change or combination of changes. Just think of the time saved not having to carry and test fly after each change. You know your stick position at hover, it will only change slightly. I sit in a chair, radio in one hand and a tool in the other, and adjusting while the engine is running. Granted many starts and shut downs, but its ideal for radio changes. With your tack tracking rotor rpm you can change the TR and see exactly the rpm lose or gain and the engine performance at each throttle setting. It makes your pitch/throttle adjustment so much easer. I guess to simplify what I am saying you will need a controlled environment to get your data, if in flight you only have stick movements, act and re-act feel, watching heli, and sound of which the time of day, wind, and heat can change what you see and feel. But, you must be careful of the blades, you might need to fire your Barber.

A few questions after reviewing your hardware.
You have a g490t gyro, what is the its speed ie .08@60 deg? I have not seen this gyro yet.
What type of main blade do you have ie flat bottom, full symmetrical? I read yesterday that a full sem blade requires much higher rotor speed.
You said you radio manual was in a different language, did you get the English version? I have the 10X copy I downloaded if you need it I can sent it to ya.
You have a OS 70, you should have more than enough power. Your needle valve should be a lot wider than 2 clicks.

I have many project and work on one until parts are exhausted, get tired of it, or I get an idea on another project thats given me fits. I just installed a FPE 2.4 on a Sig Extra 300 xs and installing the radio my first Gas Plane. This is my first plane using a JR radio program, but I figured out how to mix the 2 elevator and aileron servos for independent controls. I have been spending lots of time on it lately. I had to change rx in my Sig Clipped wing cub which included changing the plugs on the servo(old Airtronics to new air JR 8103 radio) I now need a crystal for it. I am covering a Waco 61 size (what a *****) using 21 Century Coverite. I have a old Mock 1 pattern plane half built (24 yrs old). 2 Venture 30s, I still need to do more adjustment on one, and the other is 80% built, needs muffler, rx, and crystal, then all the adjustment for advanced flight, break-in a new Webra 36. The last item is the Q60 40% built, needing missing parts, and just borrowed a dial indicator to check the run-out of the fan hub, and starter bearing. Still waiting for the Gyro and TR servo from a bid. Now the kits still in the box all 24 yrs old. No, I'll skip those. I only have a 2 stall guage and still have a lot of test-equipment and parts when I was repairing TV, VCRs, Projection TV, camera, and Sterio's that I quit to return to RC. The same amount of work but much more enjoyable. So I am working in a limited space.

Sent me your email address and I can send you some pictures I took yesterday. mine is manion_30@hotmail.com some of this stuff probably souldn't be presented here.

see ya

Larry
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Old 09-06-2004, 01:46 AM
  #80
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Hello Larry,

Everytime I think I am getting to know this stuff, I find out I know nothing. I am not sure at all of the speed of the gyro, and I do not see anywhere in the specs where it states the speed. I have 680mm SAB symetrical blades as well as SAB carbon tail blades. I did manage to find a manual for my 9X radio, although I must give them credit, the radio is very easy to use and set up. I managed to work that out fairly quickly. My needles are more than two clicks, I guess what I meant was that I adjusted them two clicks at a time from the factory recomendation which was 2 turns out on the high speed and 1 turn out on the medium speed. I did in desperation adjust them to from almost totally closed to totally open though. None of this is in vein though, I am learning every step of the way. You have a lot of toys there. Where do you find the time for all this? I just have one heli and the wife is cautioning me about my time ratio's spent with this toy and her. Fortunately the two girls love it just as much as I do, so they are with me on the toy. Do you know the Kalt Baron, there is a guy I found here in Newcastle that has one, it is about ten years old and wants to sell it. What is your experience with buying on the net? We are a little scared this side, not so used to it and worry that you might pay and never get what you paid for. I would very much like to see those pictures, here is my mail address shane.crompton@lanxess.com or shane.crompton.sc@bayerchemicals.com. Have to do some work now

Regards Shane
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Old 09-07-2004, 12:03 PM
  #81
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Hi Larry,

Well systematic helped a great deal. If you were my instructor you would probably give me a clip across the ear. I decided to check the gyro first for problems and record them. I switched on the radio and the chopper but never started the thing. I basically wanted to check that while playing with the controls ( simulate a bit of flight wothout the engine ) I dont get a sudden twitch on the tail blades. I thought perhaps there might be interference that was affecting the gyro. Anyway I noticed ( was watching the servo arm ) that when giving the rudder some left stick sometimes the servo would react slowly first and then pick up to its spead halfway through, and other times it would be normal. This led to some further inspection of the tail ( Dont say I told you so, I know ) and it was a little tricky to find, but when the tail rotor was in a certian place it would stick but when rotated past that place it would be free again. I stripped the whole trail assembly, checked the shaft to make sure it was not bent, and gave it a thorough clean. I stripped out the thrust bearings in the tail and that is where I found the problem. One of the washers was supposed to be a .5mm washer and I had installed a 1mm washer. Although it seemd to move freely, at a certain spot it would bind up the movement. I managed to get hold of a washer and replaced it. It worked smooth all the way around. My assumption is that while the gyro was trying to compenstae for movement the sticky tail would hold it back and when the gyro tried to compensate for that it became free thus causing it to kick out and then the gyro would have to recover it again. Never the less, after cleaning it well and reassembling I went for a quick flight and low and behold almost no movement, what a idiot I am. You chase after the least obvious when the obvious is actually the problem. There is still slight movement and that is from the engine, it is running rough. I tried adjusting the gyro sensitivity more but it would wag more back and forth. I have it set at 74% now, that seems to be the best setting. The engine seems to run best when spitting fuel out the exaust. Is this normal? The Heli is full of residue after flying one tank. I have posted som pics here. Do you think there is too much smoke? Dont know if you sent stuff via mail yet, we had a problem withg our server and will probably only be online tomorrow again.

Regards Shane
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Old 09-07-2004, 02:38 PM
  #82
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Default RE: JR Helicopter Forum

Yeaaa! Don't you just love it when a plan comes together. Hey, that venture 60 looks good in the air. You wouldn't think a little washer could make so much trouble until you put you finger on it. I have seen similar problem with TR shaft bearing end play shifting back a forth where the bearing race would move in the frame. Now you will need to adjust your learning curve down on your radio until the next problem shows itself. Lets see I did mention mechanic error didn't I. I had to pore some salt. ha

Well, for a 70 size engine running on 18 to 20% oil, it should smoke a little more, but as long as she runs smooth and has lots of power so be it.

I didn't send all the stuff to ya until I knew the storage of you Email server, if I could send all at once or a megabyte at a time. It also looks like you need to expand your flying field a bit, I wish my yard looked that good.

Have a happy trouble free flight

Larry
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Old 09-07-2004, 03:00 PM
  #83
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Default RE: JR Helicopter Forum

The salt burns a bit, but the smooth tail somewhat covers the wounds quickly. I forgot to mention The kalt Baron is a heli, I have not seen it yet, still waiting for the guy to get it out of his cupboard. He says it has a bell fuselage on it, and cant tell me which bell either. Our mail server should handle up to 5 meg at a time no problem. My yard is rather small to fly, but the fear of crashing has honed my hovering skills quite a bit, no room for error. Having gone through this exercise ( chasing the wrong fault ) has been a good learning curve none the less, I hope others can learn from this too. This a rather quiet forum, I wonder if anybody else is flying JR's or the JR nust be that good that there are very few have problems. What do you think? Thanks a ton for all your effort and communication. Regards Shane
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Old 03-04-2007, 09:11 PM
  #84
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Ok guys i have a querstion. I am new to the nitro heli's but have had an HDX450 for about 3 months now. I bought my Venture 30 from a guy and was looking at it the other day and there seems to be a bit of slop in the head, and also is the tail rotor suppose to turn when the main rotors turn like on the raptor( if you are just spinning the main rotor by hand)?? I know on the raptor when you turn the main rotor the tail rotor turns. If it dosent, wont that make auto's VERY hard??? Also any upgrades you guys might reccomend??? Seems like alot of people like the venture but i am a little concerned at this moment. Nobody around here that i know of really has experience with a venture so i am kinda on my own in regards to this. A little help would be GREAT!!!!
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Old 03-14-2007, 11:57 AM
  #85
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Hey,

Just got a used Venture 30 from a flying buddy. First gas heli in about 5 or 6 years. Been flying 400-size electrics for about a year solid now. I forgot how much more stable even something as small as a .30 flies compared to the 400 size electrics. Real smooth. Anyway, figured I'd chime in. Got the heli with a XP6102 radio, 537's on the rotor head and throttle and a digital (810 or something) on the tail with the G500T gyro. Enya 36 I think is the motor. Love it, I'll get a pic of it up here in a minute.

Any basic regular maintenance items I should know about?
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Old 03-14-2007, 12:04 PM
  #86
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Here's my new bird hovering in the backyard.

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Old 02-17-2008, 10:53 PM
  #87
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Default RE: JR Helicopter Forum

I'm currently trying to setup my Venture 30 and I think I'm running into the same pitch curve issues. I'm just going to lit the questions I have, any help would be greatly appreciated.

1) At low, middle, and full collective pitch I'm getting -7, +6, +17 respectively according to my pitch gauge. I'm sure I'm doing something wrong but I have done everything I know to do to fix it. I've tried adjusting the pitch servo travel in both directions, tried adjusting the normal pitch curve and checked all the tie rods connecting from the swash to flybar, and from flybar to blade grip. All my tie rods are the correct length, all the servo arms have been adjusted to either level or 90 deg. as required using the sub trim to get it right.

2) The main rotor blades seem to sag quite a bit. I used to have a hirobo shuttle and I don't remember them sagging like this. I'm sure they pull up just fine once they get up to speed but I just thought I'd see if that is a common problem.

3) Do I need to setup up MX1 and MX2 on the JR XP6102 radio system? I'm not a total beginner but I'm not doing any acrobatics yet either. I'm not certain if I need to tamper with these.

I'm just not sure how to fix the pitch issue, it seems like I have a much greater range than the manual lists for the pitch curve setups.

Thanks,
Adam
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Old 02-18-2008, 11:13 AM
  #88
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Default RE: JR Helicopter Forum

See my answeres with in your quote in your other thread. You can also PM me

Jim
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Old 05-29-2008, 08:11 PM
  #89
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I posted this in the general heli forum but I found the JR specific thread and I thought it would be better. I have a venture 30. I just put on a set of Maverick G4 carbon blades, now the heli wobbles in flight. It is like a circular wobble that is causing the disc to act like a hula hoop on the ground, or a spun coin slowing down on a table. It blades seem to be tracking properly, and I did the static balance on them before I tracked them. I did not have this issue before I switched from the stock wood blades. I also switched out the stock venture grips and spindle for the KSJ spindle, thrust bearings, bearings, and Ergo grips.

Any ideas what this could be?
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Old 05-29-2008, 09:17 PM
  #90
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IIRC your head speed is too low. Or thats what I've been told causes it.
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Old 05-29-2008, 10:06 PM
  #91
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: adamrs80

I posted this in the general heli forum but I found the JR specific thread and I thought it would be better. I have a venture 30. I just put on a set of Maverick G4 carbon blades, now the heli wobbles in flight. It is like a circular wobble that is causing the disc to act like a hula hoop on the ground, or a spun coin slowing down on a table. It blades seem to be tracking properly, and I did the static balance on them before I tracked them. I did not have this issue before I switched from the stock wood blades. I also switched out the stock venture grips and spindle for the KSJ spindle, thrust bearings, bearings, and Ergo grips.

Any ideas what this could be?
first off check and make sure your spindle damper's are ok when i changed from wood to carbon's on mine it had a BAD WOBBLE until i changed them also make sure your head speed is running faster than with the woods that should do it
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