crash1953

I wish we had a local shop here again .. I do miss them .. I agree though that a local shop is really at a disadvantage .. I do have one question from everybody .. How can a person only burn 3 or 4 gallons of fuel a yr?? I burn that much in a couple days.. They must be flying electric .. I have to drive about 50 miles to get my fuel and I get cool power 15% for $11.95 a gallon .I always get at least 3 cases at a time and sometimes more ..I took 16 gallons on vacation a couple yrs ago . Then while I'm there I usually spend a couple hundred more on other stuff I used to spend in our LHS .. I sure do miss the local shop.. I also like Heli Proz.It only takes a couple days to get my order from them and they always have given me good advice .. I stopped in there shop a yr or so ago to meet them in person and not only did I like the people there I was invited to fly there with them after they closed up shop for the day .. I still intend to take them up on that this yr. when I go to visit my son and daughter over that way..

Hivoltage

My Feedback: (3)

That was cases of fuel not gallons....still not very impressive I know but if I burned a case of fuel in a couple days I would have to find a cheaper hobby.

crash1953

Thats what I keep saying to myself too .. Just cant seem to do it .. I love to play with these damn things and since I work nights all the time I have alot of time in the day to play with them .fuel is the cheap part anyway .. I can wear a heli out pretty fast .. I used a gallon and a half up yesterday ..That was in my 60 Rappy .. Then my grandson was with me and went through another 1/2 gallon in his plank.... I just love to fly ..You only get one pass through life so I say the heck with it I will do what I feel like and have fun.

Bloodsport

My Feedback: (15)

For any doubters out there I know ergo 60 and he speaks the thruth. I own a small buisness and do not mind telling you that if I treated my customers the way our LHS does I would have to sell the company airplane by spring. I would say the lesson here is to teat your customers the way you wish to be treated and even with some mark-up they will still buy from you.

Oh yea, Life is short, fly fast!

Georg Matthews

My Feedback: (6)

And I am not doubting him I have had the same negative kind of experiences in hobby stores also. But I know that not all hobby stores are that way. I know that our store places customers special orders on a daily basis and that is our policy. And the owner of our store is committed to customer service. Sure some things fall through the cracks and we try to not to let that happen.
But I am just saying it isn't fair to compare a place like Heliproz to you LHS for some heli specific items.
Also I would like to know which Rider's hobby store is Ergo's local shop ?
Thanks

Ergo60

My Feedback: (1)

Yes it is. They are a hobby store, and if I call and order a part that does not mean "Order it whenever you feel like it" I have had times in the past where when placing an order at Heliproz they did not have it in stock and I was given the option to either cancel that part or they would ship it when it came in. I opted to have them ship it when it came in, and it still only too just over 7 days to get the part.

Heres the deal. I do not expect my local Riders to stock each and every part for all aircraft out there. What I do expect is that when I order a part it will come in a timely manner. I expect them to actually order it within a timely manner, not when I call and check to see if it came in. I would appreciate a notice if the part is delayed for a unreasonable amount of time.

I do not mind paying a few dolalrs more at the local shop, but I will NOT pay a few dollars more, and also have to wait two weeks for the part to come in.

I have two of them. One on 28th stree in Wyoming michigan, and one in Portage on westnedge drive. The main issues are with the Wyoming location. Can you fix them????

Well I dont fly telescopes, and Yes I have looked at them, and the selection os not the greatest. In fact even the local Walmart stocks Meade telescopes, and still beats the Riders prices...


Yes, but the local Riders just plain sucks. I am doing a comparison of service, not prices. Service is what keep the customers comming back. I dont really care about the dollar or two difference it is all about the service, and the local Riders could use the guys at Heliproz as an example of Great service.

Bloodsport

My Feedback: (15)

I just want to know what the heck oranges have to do with crappy service at the riders in grand rapids ,Michigan?

Ergo60

My Feedback: (1)

Dude!!! good to see you here. As far as the oarnges, well I think it has to do with the oposing vector angles of the Widget bracket in relation to the inverse of the square of the other negative angle, so that would support the bad service and oarnges theory.

This is just a guess though and if someone else out there would like to prove my theory, please do.


BOTTOM LINE AGAIN, GOOD SERVICE OUTWEIGHS CHEAP PRICES.

Culverson

My Feedback: (14)

No Flames on this is only my 2 cents worth:


Well I go through my LHS too and mail order. But I believe we do have to think about our hobby in a sense of expansion as well. If our hobby is to grow and flourish we need the Mom and Pop local hobby store. I have seem so many RC flyer just quit without the local support of having hardware-covering-balsa-electronics-paints-etc. not in stock and in some cases the Local Hobby Store Just shut down . Our local shops offer support for local fields in our areas-give aways-raffles etc.

If you back up and think what if all of the small shops die off it would in the end hurt the hobby as whole. I know you are thinking as I do at times, oh well I will get my items cheaper at the ----- online store, but just think about what massive distributors do to the little guy. Take Wally World for instance-replace a few letter and get WM. They have pretty much gotten the business owner to a point of them not being able to compete with them on prices, as they buy is massive quantities.

I will continue to support my LHS-my online retailer as well, but do not forget the guy on the corner that does it for the love of the hobby and has a house mortage-payments just like us.

Bloodsport

My Feedback: (15)

Ergo , you are my Hero !


quote: Well I dont fly telescopes,

Culverson

My Feedback: (14)

quote: Well I dont fly telescopes,
No, but if you or I crash to far away you may need one to find the wreckage LoL. I could not resist Ergo-BSport

Bloodsport

My Feedback: (15)

Ask Ergo 60 about the "warm reception" he got at the local club field...
Culverson is right as far as supporting the local guy ,I think the perception is that most go and look then buy elsewhere,although that may be true I think the LHS could have a great effect on this with some service,in my town we have A riders and an independent HS the independent one will not even order a chopper part, they say go to Riders......then riders needs the part number ( of a part from A kit I bought from them) then if I am real lucky I might get it in a week or so.I have never squawked on price,also if I could not get it for a week just say so. Out of about 6 people at the LHS ONE knows what the heck he is talking about,one of 6 is not a good deal.....I thought the LHS should have fired all but the one and triple his paycheck and things would improve I am sure.

warlock1174

My Feedback: (23)

I proudly support my local hobby shop for several reasons. The first being that I enjoy being able to go inside, and "handle" some of the products prior to purchasing. This is especially handy if I am unsure as to an exact fit of a part, or wish to compare workmanship. Try that online.

Secondly, as stated by someone else here, the local shop provides a haven for other modelers to meet and socialize outside of the field. I have made some good friends, and received tons of advice from other customers.

As far as pricing goes, I can order a $20 part from Heli-world, pay $7 shipping, and expect to receive it within a week. On the other hand, I can order the same part from the local guy, and usually end up paying about a dollar less than I would have spent ordering online. Also, online ordering requires sitting in front of the p.c., locating the part, and submitting the order form. I just tell the local guy what part I need, and he tells me when it's in. Simple.

Also, a LHS fosters a relationship between the general community and that of modelers. Evn non-modelers will sometimes come by the store just to see what the hobby is all about. Sometimes, this even results in a new modeler! People tend to like seeing things in person. I mean, would you go and buy a new car online? Probably not, but going to the dealership, at least you can look at and touch the potential new purchase.

Just my opinion!

Bloodsport

My Feedback: (15)

Dude, I think you missed the point ergo was making.......Our LHS treats everyone the same , Like S--- ! A lady that works for a friend of mine came to me last year for advice on a r/c car because the LHS would not take the time to answer her questions. they were good ones too... I will say it one last time SERVICE !!!!

RS2K

My Feedback: (8)

I now what bad service is like, I also know what good service is like. I actually wouldn't mind if one of my Local hobby shops went out of business. In fact I think it would be good for the hobby shop I do like in my area. Good service only to a select few of your cutomers is BAD, VERY BAD! Specialization is not always bad for the dealer. There is a helicopter only hobby shop in Wichita. When I went in there for a Raptor part that he was out of the owner let me try a Venture part that wa similar <flybar>. As long as I didn't mangle the packaging he said I could return it if it didn't work. That one action beats ANYTHING that my current local shop has even THOUGHT of doing for me. I have only had very good service with the new hobby shop opening up, so that you don't confuse the two.

Ergo60

My Feedback: (1)

Absolutely correct, it is all about the service. The local Riders would have ALL of my mailorder sales if they could just get the service part right. I am not concerned about saving that last buck buy buying from some guy overseas, I just want the kind of service I get from Heliproz. Nothing more nothing less. I also dont mean that they have to greet me at the door with a smile, and pour me some coffee and ask me how my day is going.

Here they are, and they guy who orgionally posted should write these down.

1. Have someone who actually knows about the hobby working the counter. Nothing worse than having to explaine to several people what you are looking for.

2. If I come in on Wed and order a part, but your regular order day is on Tuesday....Tell me that the part will not be ordered until next tuesday. If I order a part and all I hear is Thank you, then I assume that it will be ordered right away.

3. If there is going to be a delay in getting the part, call me. Dont wait for me to call you wondering where my part is.

When you think about the hobby it is largely service based. We want to be able to go to the local hobby store and be able to talk to people who actually participate in the hobby and know what they are doing. Who here has had the experience of going to the local Auto parts store only to be confronted with someone behind the counter who couldnt tell the difference between a lug nut and an engine block.

That is it, it is just the basics. Pricing really doesnt matter as long as it is within reason, if the service is good then I will not worry about paying a little more.

DO this and you will be sucessfull.

Oh yeah and for goodness sakes have a computer with an E-Mail account so that I can Email you my questions or concerns after hours. Heliproz has that, and he is very good about replying to them. Once again, superior service....

Raceway-RCU

My Feedback: (1)

A THOUGHT TO PONDER!!

NO LHS... FEWER NEW HOBBIST, THEN LESS PRODUCT SOLD,THEN LESS PRODUCT DEVOPLOPED, THEN STALE SAME OL PRODUCT

THEN.......................NOTHING................ ....THEN, YOU GOING TO BLAME IT ON THE STORE OWNERS.

ITS UP TO YOU TO MAKE IT STAY OR DIE LIKE THE DINOSOURS

WHICH WAY DO YOU WANT IT TO GO?

A LITTLE HUMOR

(SHOULD I STAY OR SHOULD I GO NOW)

REMEMBER THAT SONG

Georg Matthews

My Feedback: (6)

For the most part I agree with you. But you still have to realise that a LHS that doesn't specilize in one facet of the hobby is not going to have an expert sales person for every aspect of the hobby. R/C helis is a very small portion of the over all picture for a local hobby shop. I know what you are saying about service and I can tell you that at our store we make a honest effort to service every customer as best we can. But there still our times that we can't fulfill the needs of everybody we just don't have the resoures. Having an expert in r/c helis is a bonus in a LHS having experts in r/c airplanes and cars is a neccesity as those two areas comprise 90% of our r/c business. So if you want an expert in helis there to answer your questions and provide the service you need may I suggest you go and take a job at your LHS as I am sure your expertise would be greatly appreciated.
Again I will say I agree there is no excuse for bad service, If a part is special ordered for you then it should be place either that day or the next with the distributor. And if the part is on B/O then it is the responsibility of the guy in the shop to contact you and let you know what is going on. And when you go into the store it is reasonable to expect to speak to someone with some knowledge of what you are there for. But I will say it again your LHS is not Heliproz and it never will be. So to expect the same level of expertise from a LHS that you can get from Heliproz you are for the most part not going to find it. Your LHS does not specialize it for the most part is a general hobby store. Once you figure this out for yourself and only place your orders mail order then both you and your LHS will be much happier

Bloodsport

My Feedback: (15)

If your LHS heli sales only account for a couple of percent of your buissness you should sent them to a Heliproz type shop. If however you wish to grow that part of your buisness then LEARN a little about helis. In my company I have people all the time needing things I do not know about,but I make it my buisness to find out for them.( the reason they came to me in the first place).By using some very simple principles you know treat the customer with respect,I took a 80k a year company to a 200k company in 6 years...No rocket scince here. When I go in to the local HS I do not expect them to have the same zeal for helis as I do. i think it is not too much to ask for them to know what a main shaft or blade grip are.Should not be too tough as my little girl from just being in the roon when I was building my last heli could point out the main parts. I would think that even a r/c car guy with an IQ of 50 or more could guess what a TAIL BLADE was.

ERGO 60 hit it right on the head. You need to read his post carefully. so ends todays sermon.........

Ergo60

My Feedback: (1)

I did not specify that they were an expert, only that they have some knoweledge of the hobby. All it takes is a little training when the new guy starts the job to familiarize them with the area he is supporting.

In my many calls to Heliproz I have been told on several occasions that the guy I need to talk to is not in now. They let me know when he will be back, and I can talk to him then.

Very simple practice. I do not expect "Experts" I do however expect that they are familiar with what a helicopter is, and if they do not know then point me to the guy who does know.

I for one would not run a business fileed with workers who do not understand what they are selling. Would you go to a doctor who could not identify your toes. How about a mechanic who did not know where the oil goes. How about a florist who couldnt tell poison ivy from a rose. The list goes on.


Ummmm......Noooooo. I am sure that there a several towns where ther are no LHS. I did not start in this hobby because of the LHS.
No again, I have never blamed the store owner for anything but lacking the level of support that I should be able to expet from them. they are there to Service me. I pay their bills, I pay their salarys, I can make and break them. So yes, it is all about me, we are the ones they are in business for.

Sometimes the dinosour(local Riders) has to die to make room for the better species(Heliproz)


Service,Service,Service.

RS2K

My Feedback: (8)

I agree 100%!!!

warlock1174

My Feedback: (23)

Once again, it seems that I have found myself partaking in a conversation which seems to be headed nowhere, and is populated by ignorance and confusion... I guess if ya can't beat 'em, join 'em.

Either way, do any of you know where heli-proz, and tower hobbies and the like got their start? Well, most of them were little mom-n-pop type operations at one point. Due to customer loyalty, and the exposure that r.c. has garnered, these places have blossomed... So, it seems to me that the local shop has not only a "traditional" quality, but also serves as a foundation for which the larger companies are based upon... And why I am hearing about the LHS's that have inexperienced people behind the counter??? Has it occured to you simpletons that because of the VERY NARROW profit margin of R.C., that some of those "employees" may very well be friends or family of the owner, donating their time??? Do any of you have any idea what kind of time and out-of-pocket expense that some of these local hobby shops expend??? Probably not....

And another thing.... Heliproz has good service??? Since when? I have had orders misrouted, mischarged, and have even received another person's order.... Then of course, Heli-world has had a few of the same problems too for that matter......


'nuff said.....

twguns

Gee Warlock, for anyone having experienced only 28 years of life on this planet, to call everyone else here a "simpleton" is pretty bold...

Actually I take exception to it, the more I think about it... Who do you think you are??? If you are a great mind in the scheme of things, why do you hide behind a "shadow" name??? I don't think that I have heard of any earth shaking, better than anyone else pilots from Baxter, Tennessee lately... You do claim to be an "Expert Helicopter Pilot" don't you???

So who are you coming here and calling everyone else a "simpleton" and what do you think qualifies you to do so???

I guess that I just havn't read many of your posts or maybe you have just adopted the role of being a god and trying to be-little everyone else here lately... I for one, resent that you seem to think you are better, or smarter than anyone else here...

At least let us know who we should bow down too... Quit hiding behind your shadow... Tell us who is bringing us this new wonderous material (in another post by you) to all of us peons...

Ergo60

My Feedback: (1)

No confusion here. Just a simple truth that the shop that has great service will do more business than the one that does not. Plain and simple. I know that Heliproz is a small "Mom and Pop" shop. I have talked to bothe the owner and his wife on several occasions. they rovide great service, and that is why I would rather call to Montana and order my parts, and pay the shipping that call my LHS. What part of "My LHS has terrible service" seems to give you so much trouble.

I am not saying that we should ban all LHS. That we should boycot them, if I had one in my area that was woth while I would go there instead. I dont have one that is woth while, and I refuse to reward the ones with bad service by going there because someone feels that I owe the LHS some kind of loyality.

Eaxctally my point, I refuse to believe that you can build customer loyality by providing sub standard service.

the fact that there is a narrow profit margin for the LHS is not my problem. I do not own the business, I go there for a service. I do not feel that it is my responsibility to support him if he is not providing the service. Look, we can argue all the symantics all day long. If I owned a business that was catering to a group of peoples interests, I would read, and familiarize myself with the product and service I was providing. I would require that my employees become familiar with what they are selling. Remember that most people go the LHS for recomendations, and advice when they start out. If they do not kow anything about the product, then what does it say about the business?

Think about going and purchasing a new car, whould you buy one from a place where the salesman knew nothing about the vehicle, or the service center was filled with untrained voluenteers? How about if the customer service was terriable or non-existant. Would you tollerate not having your car for 3 weeks because they forgot to order your replacement part?


Again, not my problem, if the owner cannot operate the business and maintain a sufficent profit margin to prevent out of pocket expenses I do not feel responsible. And yes I do know what it takes to operate a small business. My Wife owns and operates a Dog Grooming business, and I am well aware of the expense of owning one. I can tell you right now that if she did not provide the best service her clients would go to one of the many other groomers in our are. The fact that she has many many many clients that have been with her for 5 plus years shows that she provides the best service. She is not the cheapest, but is the best.

And the next time you want to call me a simpleton think twice. Call me sometime and we can discuss the reason why you would think I was one without ever talking to me. I hold a lead position in the Research and Developement group at my job, and I have earned the respect of all my peers, even the presedent of the company, which by the way is no small local business. Over 230 million a year in sales, and a world wide reach in the automotive industry. I have designed complete test systems, designed and written company wide software applications, and even dabble in circuit design. So a simpleton I am not.


To all the other "Simpletons" taht have posted in this thread, I would like to invite you to visit Warlocks website and decide for yourself if he has earned the right to label us all as "Simpletons"

Forgues Research

My Feedback: (7)

When I was living in the Montreal area, we had a hobby shop where we would congregate on Friday nights and have coffee and talk shop. The guys were happy and would buy there. The prices were a bit higher then the mail order places, but at least if I wanted a few screws, it was there.

Now where I live, there is a small hobby shop but her prices are way too high and her excuses is its because of her distributor. So we go elswhere.

We need local hobby shops even if it costs a bit more .

If you need that glow plug in a hurry the mail order can't get it for in an hour so you can continue flying., But your local hobby shop can. You have to pay a small price for the convenience.