mugenkidd

My Feedback: (94)

Can someone please explain the effects of changing from a 2 blade setup with a flybar, to a 3 or 4 blade flybarless setup? And has anyone had experience with the century multi blade conversions for the .30-50 size heli's .

TENNKANNHELI

hello,
first how long have you been flying ,, Because flying the multi blades are like having a 3d heli .. they roll faster than a flybar,, Most people can handle the speed ,, ,,, they viberate badly if out of weight. or been nicked . and yes they are harder to setup . Dont think you can just go and pull the blades back and go home , Not like a 2 blades system. oh and your heli has to be setup right . before you put the mulit blades on or you will have a harder time of it. cause a little vibration will go a long way ...

now that that is said I would not go back to 2 blades system on the helis that I have ..
Century heli . . have fun

mugenkidd

My Feedback: (94)

Thanks for the great info. I have been flying heli's for about a year and a half now. I pretty much taught myself on the FMS share ware simulator, my buddy set up my first heli and I went out and flew it without help or training gear, only one crash in all that time do to the fact that both of my contact lens went dry at the same time. Some more quick questions if you have time. Are you using 4 stock blades or are they special for multi blade application? Also does the 4 blades take away from the power of the heli, for example I am flying a hawk sport right now with an OS .32 thinking of doing the hughes 500 fuselage with 4 blades, will this overpower the engine, with the weight of the extra blades and the scale fuse? Also what do you think is more impressive or should be the first step? multiblades or fuselage. Thanks again. Michael

TENNKANNHELI

I use the stockblades made for the head. I have ask Vic from V-blades to look in to making me some new ones out of carbon .. these blades are made with a little turn on the end of them.
like a big v shape.....
As for whats first .. If you are flying a sport and have it down to were it is smooth than go for the head setup .. ...YOu can allway get a body some were ... Oh ,, the way I look at it is ,, If you want something to look at right now than get the body first ,,
But by getting the head first .If something does happen than you dont want have to replace a nice body .. Be sides most of us keep our bodys clean .. And when you are setting up a 4 blade head it is going to take some time to make sure its right .. ..... than get your body and paint it .. because the first time you have it all together .............................Well all you will do is look at it .. you want want to fly it,haha..........

mugenkidd

My Feedback: (94)

thanks man, your information has been invaluable, I really apreciate it. Wish I lived near you so I could see one of your heli's fly. Do you have any pics of your heli's I would love to see them, I'm sure a few others would also.

TENNKANNHELI

about the motor , you will need a os 46 ..Get the motor first break it in .. before you start on the head.. a good os32 would get it off the ground butt who wants to fly a Brick any way .. you need the power to get out of trouble.....
the blades for a multy head is smaller than 2 blades .. thinner..
Century make a good scale kit with helis .... I would get one of them to start with ..... bell222 is only $369.00

TENNKANNHELI

It was my first time .
and I was at the field with my heli running and the radio in my hand ,,,, there was a guy standing next to me ..he looked at me and said ..I heard that 3d is hard to fly ..I said I heard the same thing ..
I put the gas to it and than she went up up up then down down .... this way than that ...rollling ....upp ......the blades were making this sound that hurt my ears..it was so load.. than all of a mowment ,,,,,,,it hit the ground with a BOOOOOOOOMMMM .. fire allaround ..... blades flying off at us ... the guy looked at me and said what happed you were doing great ... I looked down and
.................................................. .....turned to radio ,,,,,,,,,ON

LOL

mugenkidd

My Feedback: (94)

That first flight seemed scary. I would still like to see some pics of your heli if you have a digital camera. By the way are you flying with the OS .46 ? I heard that the OS .46 heli was not that good of an engine, is this true how does yours run? Also does the .46 require a different mount than the OS .32 ? Thanks agian your input is priceless.

TENNKANNHELI

I have been flying for about 28 years and done a lot of hovering that means a lot of heat in my motors,I will allways us . A good sin oil Lubricant with at least 30% nitro and one oz of caster .some thing like , Morgan fuels I add one oz of caster to my fuel , the sin oils can burn but the caster oil is a lot harder to burn . SO if i lean out a motor it want die because it still has oil.If i bye a motor and you bye the same one, the motors will not act the same ..I fell that most people do break in a motor the right way . or just set the lean to far and dry out the oils, In my years The only problem that I have seen is a problem with the carb. the newer motors are ok,If you fell bad than try a os 50. Look and the way they mount thats mostly what you were asking about. Oh ya . I use a os 46 on a ergo 46 with a tune pipe and can do any 3d I think I can handle. and it turns the head some were around 2475rpms thats way to high ..I stay around 2100 rpms max . with a set of vic-blades.

TENNKANNHELI

I call it the a bad nickel . ... Its got 4 types of helis .. JR .CENTURY,MOORE,,,, XCELL .It was a three year job . I think the body was made some where in the 80s I did a lot of the glass work . there is not a lot of in sides done because I want to use it as a fast atack heli lighter weight . .uses a os 61 h with a 180 tune pipe ...Oh ya I forgot .the high nitro helps in telling you what why the heli is going in 3D Higher smoke...

UH-1MTP

TENNKANNHELI,
Are you suggesting that the photo in this post is of "your" scale aircraft? I may have misinturpreted, however, if it is I MUST know who makes it, or I would pay top dollar for it. I have been flying Kiowa Warriors in the Army for 11yrs, and have seen the full scale (one of a kind) aircraft pictured in the photo. Prior to that UH-1's If that's your model, you have more talent than anyone in scale building.
Below is the full scale aircraft on the ground at the Bell plant in Texas.

TENNKANNHELI

Email me if you like will tell you all about it ,, and what I am doing.
WOW thanks for the pic. What kind of radio do you have ,,lol
Maybe one day we could do pre checks and warm it up .. hehe
Thanks Tenn

dmcgirt

Here are some pics from the Dalton Meet of Emilie's Kiowa he scratch built - this is a real R/C heli though..

UH-1MTP

That is a great PIC of a "Real R/C" as you put it! I'm very impressed with the innovative mounting of the MMS (Mast Mounted Site). On the full scale Kiowa Warrior, which I by the way am a maintenance test pilot in, the Sight is supported by a "stand-pipe" that runs through the center of the hollow main mast with several sets of bearings. The stresses produced on the mast by the large amount of flat plate drag, and G loading while manuevering, are phenominal. For it's many problems, it's still the best armed recon platform in exsistence. Until the Rah-66 pipe dream comes to fruition(if it ever does) anyway.
I have discussed the above PICS posted by TENNKANHELI, which he says are of "HIS" r/c, but I think there is some confusion, I'm familiar with the photo he displayed of the full scale, because I was there when it was taken. Looking foreward to seeing PICS of TENNKANHELI's R/C rendition of the Kiowa Warrior prototype.
Here's a photo of me in my KW:

dmcgirt

Emile even has the MMS rotate! It is a very cool design.. you obvisouly can not see it rotate there.. but if you check out on my video page - there is a Southern Scale Challenge Teaser video - this heli is in that video.. The 4-blade head is custom as well!

Was fun to watch it fly!

McGirt Video Page

TENNKANNHELI

Thats why the photo ?, I was talking about the way I made my MMS , We cut a pipe for the center of the shaft and mounted a ball on top . I went to boco bearing .com the the bearings. ,, I have went as far as making a glass ball and We were getting in fo on useing a 2.4 video TRans , rec. in head . I want to put realtime flight data and video being trans to a ground base.I am going to make sure that the video and lazer are some were not in the same freq so they want white out the video cam at night. My test beds being from pod and boom like older gmp cobras and xcells .mechs.. The video is controled by radio number 2 .no control of the heli . just video. PS . Kw MIKe keep in touch . I am class of 77 from FT campbell I allso know of three people that are from there and have great jobs like you . The F-22 , Bell , and F16 .. all class of 77or 78

UH-1MTP

I am usually very nice, however, I am now declaring that I believe very little of the TENNKANHELI posts. I will file him in the catagory of those who lie to get attention and feel accepted. I dispise being lied to, and don't appreciate the First he claimed that a pic I know to be the full scale Warrior was his scale. He then PM'd me and perpetuated the lie, even after I allowed him a graceful way to back out of it. Now he's babbling about "Lazer" interference with his video at night? Lazer is spelled Laser by the way, now I suppose we're to believe he is running thermal imaging, or Night vision on an r/c heli with a "glass ball" on top. The R/C aircraft he claims to have used in this amazing project do not even have hollow masts. So please! Tennkanheli, peddle your BS somewhere else. Unless you can produce Pics of your projects I would never buy in to that line of crap. I know that if I were working on such a grand project as yours, I would have pics. I will never understand why guys like you get on forums, lie, argue and stir up crap. I have seen your name in several threads where you instigate. Stop it, grow up.
Nuff said, I done complaining

vetrider

And nice production of it, David.

My buddy, Emile's, Kiowa is really a nice piece of work.... as is he!
He has the scale bug very bad and I'm slowly coming around myself.

UH-1MTP, I'm at Ft Campbell right now as I've been here since last Oct other than Christmas break. I'm from Mother Rucker at the Technical Test Center. If your lucky enough to not have to get on one of those heavy people carriers I've seen the last few days come on down to the Fairgrounds at the river front. I'll be there with a few heli's this Sat and Sun weather permitting.
I'm the chubby guy with the white rental Ford Taurus.

UH-1MTP

Vetterider,
I'm a regular at the fairgrounds, however, the flying field is under a couple of feet of water now because of the relentless rain we've been getting. I'm sure we've met, I have a few aircraft you might remember seeing: Kellett Autogyro, 1/4 scale DR-1, others that are unusual too. The entire Division is deploying over the weekend, and I will be departing for Egypt on Monday. I'll see you when I return though, take it easy,
-Mike

vetrider

YES Mike, I remember you now.
I wish you very safe days ahead on your trip. Thanks for the commitment you guys are doing.
I'm sad to see the guys having to fly away from their families to go do a job that should have been done over 10 years ago.
They should have to send all the senators and congress men to the front lines during the entire campaign and let them see if they don't finish the job they start. I sure they'd like to have to do it over again.
SAUDI AMERICA I say. Get it all and sell the world the fuel. Not give everything away to countries that want to conspire against us 50 years down the road.
Sorry to vent a little. Just a damn shame.

dmcgirt

I am flying a 412 today using the MB Gyro.. and will have a direct comparison with a Tiger with the same head - minus the Gyro.. So I will be able to give a head to head comparison.. After flying the Hirobo Dauphin 4-blade - I think I like no gyros on the head, and just learn to fly them.

Here is the 412 from today..

Dale W

My Feedback: (4)

David, I am just about ready to put my Agusta in the air (hovered it around the yard yesterday), and I'll put in my 2 cents on MB heads. You probably have as much or more experience as I do, but here goes.
First, the MB heads are more sensitive to phasing and pitch than the flybarred heads. There is a tendency to 'balloon' coming out of turns and when the wind is up. A couple of methods are used to counter this: enough weight in the nose to allow the rear of the skids to come 3/4 - 1" before the front of the skid (when picked up by the shaft/centerline & depends on the model); the Vario MB Gyro or something similar.
My opinion is that the MB gyro increases the complexity and failure potential. I bought 2 of these things when they first came out and tried many times to get the friggin thing to work right. I never could, so I sold them. That said, the difference in how Gary Saia's 412 (looks familiar!) flew in Dalton with the Vario MBG compared to a couple HH gyros (not in HH) was night and day. The Vario MBGs made it look solid. The phasing thing is quite interesting and I am playing around with my 10X built-in electronic phasing. Joe Howard started me on using this, I think back when I had the Tiger. This is starting to come together for me and I like the way I can do minor adjustments without changing the mechanical setup (which, by the way are vertical rods from swashplate to grip balls). The VBMG also has this capability.
The 2-bolt blades also help in controlling the lead/lag, making it pretty much non existent. None of the 'fixes' are going to make a heli with a multiblade head fly just like a flybarred model. You just have to fly the thing and get used to it. I have the tendency to fly mine fast (not good) because I still tend to push forward when the thing balloons instead of dropping collective (what can I say?). I have flown with VMBG and without, using the 2-bolt blades, and if set up right fly almost the same. Oh yeah, one more thing is that the VMBGs don't like digital servos....They buzz and eat up (along with the VMBG) a lot of battery power!
The Agusta is currently the last of my Vario models (Benzin powered), and I think I'll keep it. I like the straight forward TR setup, lean look and the MB head looks and sounds cool. The Tiger was a real pain to work on... very tight space and a heavy machine. Russell Matteini put together a 5-blade Hughes 500 (Vario #9005). He never flew MB heads before, slaps the thing together and proceeded to fly the pants off it! There was a short learning curve on the head speed and sound (along with the ballooning tendency), but he seems to have that under control now and will be painting that up soon.
I'm waiting to see a 5-blade turbine Hughes... That would be too cool!

dmcgirt

That is awsome input! Finally.. someone that knows! Thanks Dale, I have a hard time putting into words what these things do - but I think you hit it on the mark..

The funny thing is, after about 15 tanks through this 412 w/ gyro.. I am really looking forward to no gyro.. I feel like I am flying against it trying to stablize the bird.. but I need more time on the machine to get a good feel for things.. I am stilll rusty, so I can not completely blame the machine..

You coming up to Bham Dale?

Dale W

My Feedback: (4)

I think you'll find that you ARE fighting control (actually it tries to control when you are not). I found that the gain had to be set quite low or the heli would try to do unnatural things. My guess is you will like it better without except in wind. But then, in a wind with the gyro it does things when you aren't, so you don't get the full feel of control anyway. However, it does not bounce around as much. I flew around a local park quite a bit in trying the VMBGs and like I said, didn't like the added complexity. I probably won't do Bham (I am kind of in the mode of just flyin around with the Fury getting lower and slower in the maneuvers & playing with the Agusta), but I will be the CJ at the Sanford deal Peter & Jerry are doing. I'll be looking for a couple more judges to help with the 3 or so rounds of 518. I will also do Dalton (I like the time of year), but don't know now if I'll compete or judge again.

GLegee

My Feedback: (1)

UH-IMTP, You are right, An IR camera would see the glass as if it were a solid surface, it can not see through it. I use a FLIR systems IR camera in my testing lab.