mydartswinger

I've been doing a lot of thinking on this subject lately and figured I'd start a discussion on it.

Before we go any further, let me lay out some ground rules for this discussion so it doesn't get out of hand.
1. This is a discussion thread, not an argument thread. Don't let it escalate to an argument.
2. If an opinion is in conflict with yours, resist the urge to belittle, curse, flame, or degrade the poster in conflict with your opinion.
3. If you feel the need to defend your position, do so in a respectful manner. If it comes to it, agree to disagree, as there isn't always just one right answer.
4. Don't flame or degrade other aspects of RC or other hobbies. Use them as comparisons only.
5. This is a broad topic, so it should be easy to keep it on topic. No technical discussions here.
6. No "x" helicopter is better than "y" helicopter for "z" purpose. There are many different opinions on this, and it has been discussed in many other, more specific threads.

RC helicopters are gaining popularity in certain classes of helicopter, and in certain regions of the country.

Electrics are booming all over the place with the advent of better batteries, gyros, servos, motors, better flight qualities, decreased sizes, and decreased costs involved. The magazines and discussion forums are largely made up of electric reviews and information.

Though still covered and widely used, nitro helicopters seem to be dwindling from the limelight. This may be due to the increased costs, increased complexity, noise, mess, larger size requiring larger flying areas, and overall lack of qualified helicopter instructors as would be used to "buddy box" a new pilot (more common for fixed wing than rotary). I've also found that club type fields that offer good support is difficult to find. The largest group of heli pilots in my area flies in a guy's back yard, and it can be difficult to get with them for help. You practically have to know someone in the group to get in the group yourself. Out of 3 local club fields, 1 doesn't even allow helicopters, and the other 2 only have 1 or 2 pilots or so that fly helicopters. Even with those pilots, helicopters are secondary to airplanes.

We all know that RC helicopters draw lots of interest from people that have not been exposed to them before. Many people that come to an RC flying field for the first time, most of whom usually just happen to be passing by and seeing the planes from the road or have done so before and finally decided to stop and watch, enjoy watching the planes fly. However, when they see a helicopter, all of their attention soon turns to it and the owner/pilot of the helicopter. If the pilot of the helicopter is skilled enough to do aerobatics and/or 3D flying, the spectators jaws begin to drop in amazement as they see what the helicopter is capable of.

Even experienced fixed wing pilots often watch in amazement, even with new heli pilots that can barely hover. They tend to comment of the difficulty of flying helis and their complex setup. Often stating that it is too much for them.

What many prospective RC heli pilots soon find, is that it seems to be to expensive for them. And that's just for a decent quality coaxial helicopter, much less a 400-450 size electric. What many of them fail to look at, is that a "hobby" that is much more common among the general public is/can be just as expensive when broken down.

For example:
80GB Sony Playstation 3 Console w/ 1 controller and no games- $400
Extra DualShock3 wireless controller- $55
3 Games @ $60 each- $180

Total to start with a Playstation 3 Console- $635

Each additional game usually runs from $40-$60

Remember, this is an example for someone to get started with a decent setup from scratch and not buying 2-3 helicopters to get to a helicopter that they would be happy with.

e-Flite Blade 400 RTF- $470
Extra LiPo Battery- $62
FSOne Flight Simulator, no controller- $80

Total- $612

Each crash runs from $15-$50

Other common hobbies can run much, much more money, and are generally more accepted among the general public.

With all that being said, many still view helicopters as an annoyance and are barely tolerated. It's time to change that and spark the interest in more new helicopter pilots and local groups. We also need to change fixed wing pilots view of helicopters from merely being tolerated to accepted.

To do this, we must learn to share the airspace with airplanes, even if it means waiting for clear skies at an predomenantly airplane field before we take up our helicopters. We must always follow the field's rules for airplanes in absence of specific helicopter rules. When there is someone interested in getting started in helicopters, take the time to help them out, even if it means taking up a few minutes of your flying time. Sometimes you can help new pilots keep the bug by letting them watch you fly. Don't get an I'm better than you attitude towards ANY pilot regardless of whether or not they are a new fixed or rotary pilot, or an experienced fixed or rotary pilot. If someone gives you a compliment on your flying with your helicopter, don't get all cocky about it. Try to maintain some level of humility and flip it back onto the commenter to boost their confidence. At an airplane field, show some interest in the planes and their pilots. Give positive comments to the fixed wing pilots. If when talking to someone, the subject of the difficulty of flying helicopters comes up, try to make it sound like a challenge, but not overly difficult. Try not to scare the spectators and other pilots with your flying, helicopters do that well enough to some people. If while flying your helicopter you somehow loose control, try to save it while in front of you, and if it starts to go into the pits, ditch it. The fixed wing pilots will respect you more for abiding by their rule of not going into the pits than for saving it if you have to fly the helicopter over the pits to do so. Bear in mind the size of the helicopter, as the nitros and larger electrics are VERY intimidating to those that have never seen one fly, or have had a scary experience with one in the past.

Enough of my babbling. Chime in on these topics, and if you have one of your own, bring it up. Let's here everyone's opinion on the subject.

Happy flying.

cat samich

i agree with alot of what you said. planes are the reason i chose helicopters. i had fun flying planes for some time but was always intrigued by helis. i finally got the chance to fly a nexus .30 buddy box style and i was hooked. i agree that more people should take advantage of this amazing hobby. after seeing my mcx and blade 400 2 of my friends went out and purchased there own mcx's. they also have plans of getting bigger birds.

the unfortunate part of this hobby is initial cost combined with difficulty. 99.9% of people that pick up the radio of a 3d heli for the first time will more than likely destroy the helicopter before they even start to enjoy it, and of coarse they want to buy the biggest best thing they can get and skip right past the sim. no one wants to start out with a sim, they want to go right to the limelight at the airfield.

i think with better lhs support of the hobby things would grow in the right direction. all potential heli pilots should be steered into a small electric counter rotation heli and a sim. with these two tools an a through explanation on how important learning to fly first is, the rest will fall into place.

i only spent a single afternoon trying to fly the nexus. im sure that if i would have had full control of it and wasn't connected with a buddy box that it would have been garbage by days end. but it gave me a greater appreciation for what my friend was trying to tell me. i was givin the right path to learning to fly the cheap way. and i will agree that starting with a sim isn't a glorious way to show off a sweet new heli but it is a great way to build up to being able to fly that sweet new heli when u are ready to purchase it.


i plan on having alot of fun with my new hobby, of coarse my rc trucks are mad at me but they will have to just get over it.

thats just my .02 for what its worth.

bikemad

yes yes and yes, first rc I had was a plane when I was 18 and it went up, stopped and came down hard and that was the end of that, 3 weeks to build and 20 sec to destroy.
Then many years later a mate got a two channel toy heli, so much fun I had to have one, best 17 pounds I've spent, the heli bug bit hard and after hunderds of flights it died, my next step was a heli with more control, so next was a walkera 60b, another mate saw the fun I was having trying to get to grips with it in the local hall and asked me what I thought was the best heli for him, I knew my 60b was not the one, you crash a 60 even a miner prang you will have to fix it even if it' just the blades, so I recommended the Walkera 4, and have to say it survives a lot of crashs, with the odd replacement tale blade and servo,
We like helis cos you can fly them any where, we aren't in to clubs, to much fuss and traveling, I fly in the garden and the hall, my mate flys in the car park and hall,
Yes it's a steap learning curve but alot of fun, that's the bit we like about heli's,
15 years ago there was'nt 450 size electeric heli's to learn with, and the heli's what were around were so much more money than now, and not the sort of thing you would crash and carry on flying after a quick visual check,
You had to be a member of a club, but not any more,

mydartswinger

It was actually the other way around with me. I got into planes by looking for a place to fly helicopters, as I was already doing tail in hovers on my Blade 400. Helicopters are not hugely supported in my area much beyond the 400 electrics.

You were lucky to get some buddy box time on a trainer nitro heli before you got into it. When I decided to get into helis, I started with the original Blade CX (the yellow bodied FM TX version w/plastic upper head). After little more than a month, I wanted something more challenging and got an AXE CP (BIG mistake, nice for a CP, but a CP in general is not a good choice as a step up from a coaxial). I managed to have it in the air for about 5 seconds before my first rollover crash. That was when the original AXE CP was still a new model (mine was the first one sold at the Hobby Town USA where I was at at the time), and parts support was slim. After spending nearly a year on the sim, and a couple of flights on a Venom Night Ranger II FP, I started to get the AXE back together, but stopped when I got the Blade 400. I spent plenty of time on the 400, as well as a number of crashes. I got comfortable hovering it to the point where, once properly set up and trimmed, I could do small, slow circles with it. I still fly the 400, but I now fly a Hirobo Shuttle ZXX 30 size nitro. That's learning the hard way how to fly a heli. The easy way, get some help (buddy box if possible, but someone to help set up your heli and give you pointers is a huge help as well), start slow, get sim time, and work your way up, as you are doing.

The initial cost doesn't have to be high to start out. The Blade 400 is about the same price as a well equipped RC Nitro (or electric for that matter) monster truck and can be considered a step up from a coaxial or plenty of sim time, and the crashes can cost about the same. The biggest problem is the complexity and difficulty involved in helis. A $500 monster truck, you can just go out and drive. Yeah, you'll crash, but not as soon as with a $500 heli.

As for the 3D heli, if they had someone to guide them, they wouldn't have a purebred 3D helicopter as their first heli to begin with. Going with a nice 3D heli without a buddy box is like going straight to an 89" span Carden Yak 54 instead of a trainer as a first plane (possible, but not recommended and VERY difficult). You can use a 3D heli (such as a Raptor 50 or similar) as a trainer heli with the proper set up on it, LOTS of sim time and a buddy box. However, not many that are new to helis can find a heli instructor to buddy box them.

BTW, as for your sig. I used to race AWD electric TCs. Fun for a while, but once the race organization went downhill with $200-$400 setups being run by noobies racing against $1000+ cars being run by more experienced drivers. I didn't care about winning, but I did want to have at least a chance at it and not be left in the dust about 10+ laps back. That turned me off of cars for a while before I got back into nitro off road again, but just on an occasional bashing basis. If that's your thing, go for it. Just know that there is more expensive specialized tools to setup the suspension on a TC than there are to setup a 3D helis head and blades. If you have a good group to run with, it's great. If the guys you run with are more of the every man for himself type attitude, then it can be a hassle and no fun. Just an FYI.

Happy flying.

Bugzilla

Agreed. The main problem I see that is holding this hobby back is the learning curve. Most people see someone at the sticks that has put in the necessary time, practice, and money, and they say "he makes it look easy enough, I want to do that to." So then they start asking questions about the heli itself, and don't ask about what it takes to learn to fly them. And when they are at the field, or working on their bird, or otherwise engaged, most pilots just don't think to warn them of the steep learning curve this hobby has, and the large hole it can leave in your finances, or you have the cocky pilots that say "awe, it's easy". So the person just goes and buys a heli, then scatters it all over and gives up, and tells his friends to stay clear of the hobby as well. What's needed is for everyone that flies to make a deliberate effort to steer new folks in the right direction, no matter what they are doing at the time, and to realize that what worked for them won't necessarily work for other people, and for companies to stop labeling these little sqirrely 300 size mini helis as beginner helis, and for hobby shops to stop just trying to make money from the initial sale and parts afterwards, and send new folks down the right path to begin with. There should be a standardized path to beginning helicopters, and that's what everyone should preach, with a fair warning of the cost and frustration just jumping into it can cause. There are good, fairly cheap options out there that will give a person a good foundation for flying, and when they do progress, they will enjoy going back to their first models and having nice relaxing flights around the hose, and they can use them to get the kids, or the neighbors, or anyone that happens by, interested in the hobby. Just my 2 pennies for the day.

BarracudaHockey

My Feedback: (11)

If you want to see people ignore the 3D hot shots, break out a scale helicopter

evan-RCU

The cost of r/c helos is coming down but no more than r/c airplanes so I think helos will still be the runt for a long time to come. Unless you have a helo only club and flying area there will always be tension between the groups to some extent.

I agree with most all of what you say...

I don't really see much to discuss with what you put in the first post and you almost seem to be discussing it with yourself... I don't think this thread will produce much new info.

mydartswinger

This is one of the things that we must figure out how to reduce, if not eliminate. As well as what heli pilots can do as a whole to help keep new heli pilots in the fold. Not to mention what we can do as a group to find that fine line between the truth of difficulty and not making it sound as if it's rocket science so not to turn off prospective pilots, as Bugzilla stated.

This is also an open ended thread. If there is something that I or anyone else has not mentioned pertaining to the overall state of the heli hobby, by all means bring it up for discussion. What I started off with was just to get the discussion going with some topics of discussion.

ply2win

My Feedback: (3)

I've always wondered why that is. I'm just getting started in helicopters and I have been flying planes for about 3 years. I enjoy both and there are people at my field flying both. Everybody gets along just fine.

I don't know why you have to like just one or the other.

nuttcaze

I think its a problem thats gonna be a thing of the past pretty soon, with the reduced prices of helis and the sheer number to close from, lots of plane pilots are starting to fly helis as well, more then ever before. The animosity between the groups will soon fade away.

I fly helis and am just starting to fly planes as well.



Heres the question of the day:

How many different models helis are currently available for sale? (Even if its a re-branded product, if it says a different company it counts as a different heli)

I don't know the answer so I can't tell you what it is.

mydartswinger

Part of the tension between heli pilots and plane pilots is that helis can get in the way of planes when they have an emergency or are just trying to take off and land due to the nature of flying helicopters (close in, largely over or near the runway). Another reason is that to many fixed wing pilots who are not around helicopters much, the large rotating main blades are very intimidating. Just the thought that one of those blades could theoretically break loose scares many of them. A propeller on an airplane, even the largest airplanes, are much smaller than the main rotor of anything over a a 400 sized helicopter. Plus the blades on a helicopter are held on by a small (in comparison) screw, while a prop is clamped down to the engine of a plane with 1-2 nuts, plus a washer, and usually a spinner with 2-4 screws. Even if the blades don't come off, they have a fear of getting their head chopped off (or at a minimum a large chunk of flesh taken off) by an out of control helicopter screaming into the pits (even more so with the larger helis). Many plane pilots also know that a helicopter is a complex machine (much more so than an airplane), and there is more to break. They also know that helicopters are more difficult to fly than a plane. As a helicopter pilot, their safety rests entirely in your hands while at the controls of your helicopter. As soon as you take to the air, they are relying on your setup and flying skills to keep them safe.

You don't have to like one or the other. That's the great thing about this hobby. You can enjoy it all, planes, cars, boats, helis, and/or whatever peaks your interest. Heck, there's even radio control skydivers. Many airplane pilots just don't want to mess with the complexity of setup, nor the steep learning curve of flying helis.

As for the number of different models, there are probably hundreds of different models. You have some retailers that sell imitations of more popular and expensive helis, as well as some that sell more expensive versions of cheaper helis (Venom). Then you have all of the "mainstream" helis from brands such as e-Flight, Align, Thunder Tiger, Hirobo, etc... Then you have helis that fit in somewhere in the middle, that make good/decent helis, that are not cheaper complete copies (though they actually may be cheaper, but not a very close copy), nor are they a "mainstream" heli, such as the Ghobee line. Not saying any are better than the others, just to show what types are out there, and the possibility of a very large number of brands. That's just the "hobby grade" helis, not counting the seemingly infinite number of "toy" helis out there that would be sold in a mall kiosk, toy store, Radio Shack, etc...

bikemad

but of course a plane hiting you at full speed is better than a heli blade, come on it's speed times weight, ie a 1oz weight hiting you at 120 mph is not good but it's better than a 20 oz plane hiting you at 90 mph plus that smaller blade in the plane will be turning much faster,
any thing that carrys that amount of inertia can be dangerous and must be respected, but for one who expects other's to trust him and then gets worried when it's your turn, I wont go on but you get my point,[&o]

BarracudaHockey

My Feedback: (11)

Planks vs helis

I fly both (all three if you want to count gliders as another catagory)

Here's some observations.

A helicopter doesn't obstruct the flight line any more than 3D flying a big gas airplane and hovering over the runway. The potential for injury and catostrophic damage is the same. Flying 3D foamies is just as "obstructing" for that matter. Of course, there's clubs that just want to fly an oval pattern and discourage that kind of flying too, its the same attitude.

The whole thing can be managed by a little cooperation. The helicopter pilot that says "I pay my dues I can fly too" and proceeds to flip and roll over the runway infront of some startled student on a buddy box doesn't do any of the helicopter pilots around any good. If the helicopter pilot waits a few minutes he saves a lot of animosity. If the guy that wants to shoot 27 touch and go's with his Cub can wait 7 or 8 minutes, the guy flipping and rolling his helicopter over the runway will be out of the way and everyone is happy.

Fortunately our club has two flight lines, one for helis, one for planes so aside from a little grumbling about helicopters taking over the club (there's 20 + on an average weekend) we don't have that problem.

nuttcaze

it might be because I started on helis but at a field I'm much more worried about someone crashing into me with their plane then their heli. But either way I don't want anything chasing me, heli or plane, I wouldn't stay at the field if there was a pilot being unsafe, but the club won't let people do that anyways so its not much of a problem.

one thing I wanted to add about complexity, I think planes are more complex, I'm talking about the hand built ones, the frames and construction of them is far more intrique then my heli, plane builders are true craftsmen to be able to scratch build a plane, with my helis if I crash I can always buy replacement parts, but with those balsa planes, you crash you buy or build a new kit

mydartswinger

For the airplane pilots at my field, the large size of the rotor is just scary for some reason. I guess it goes along with the feeling that a helicopter pilot gets the first time they spin up the blades on a CP, 400+ electric, or nitro after flying something smaller, like an FP. Also, a plane is easier to have some control of where it goes when something goes wrong than a heli.

I do get the point on trust. However, it's not the pilot they don't trust, it's the machine the pilot is flying. For example, I try not to do anything dangerous or stupid (other than the occasional setup oops) and when I fly my planes, other pilots and some spectators (family members, friends, and invited guests) will at times come up to me and watch the flight while standing next to me (we have a fairly relaxed club, as long as the person in question doesn't "get in the way" and cause trouble). Then when I choose to fly my helicopter when the skies are clear of other pilots, many of those same people go scrambling for the cover of our metal awning. I'm more cautious when flying my helis than when I'm flying my planes (not to say that I'm not cautious with them).

I'm not saying that flying over the pits happens all of the time, but unexpected things can happen that can cause any aircraft to fly into the pits. If the pilot can manage to pull it directly back out of the pits or ditch it before it gets to close to anyone, there's no problem. However, things can still happen that can be an unintended safety hazzard to spectators, even to the best pilots (IE radio malfunction, they do happen even after doing a proper control and range check before flight). No one wants anything to crash into them, but

When airplanes and helicopters are sharing the same airspace, helicopters can be considered for of an obstruction than a 3D airplane hovering over the runway at a field that does not have a designated flying area for helicopters. If the helicopter pilot does not have the skills needed yet for forward flight and is hovering over the runway when an airplane pilot calls out "Deadstick", the helicopter has nowhere to go but down, and is even more in the way since the airplane pilot may have to cut their pattern to just the right point where the helicopter on the ground will be either right in the path of the plane or right where it'll touch down. The helicopter pilot also may not have the time to run out to the runway and grab the helicopter before the plane comes in. If the helicopter pilot can perform forward flight, there won't be a problem because the helicopter pilot can fly the helicopter out of the way easier, same as with a 3D airplane (people that fly these that close to the runway are also more experienced pilots and can pull out of what they are doing when the need arises). Again, mediating this goes back to a little courtesy between the 2 groups of pilots and should even be exercised when there's only 1 group present (students normally can't handle the extra air traffic, and other pilots should wait to fly until the student has landed. If it is a more experienced student that can handle a bit of traffic, just keep the pattern clear unless landing, then clear the runway as soon as possible.).

I agree that the building aspect of planes is more complex, and I greatly respect those craftsmen. The complexity aspect is more along the lines of proper mechanical setup and repair for flight as well as the number of moving parts, not building. You can still fly a plane that is set up poorly, it'll definitely be more difficult, but it can be trimmed out, balanced out, and, if all else fails, overcome by a little extra piloting work. A helicopter on the other hand, if it is set up poorly, it's going to have massive vibrations, poor tail control, surging up and down due to large changes in pitch for the amount of collective used, and will be virtually unflyable by all but the most experienced heli pilots. All airplane pilots usually have to set up on their ARF planes once built is their balance and radio programming. Some pilots don't always balance their planes before the first flight. If they don't like the balance once they've flown it, then they change the CG. I've crashed and repaired both, and other than the cost aspect, I'd rather repair the heli since I'm more mechanically inclined than I am towards carpentry. However, a basic repair on a plane is not difficult. Just a little glue here and a little covering there, and it's done. If a plane is crashed to the point where it's nothing but splinters or just plain not worth the time and/or cost of the wood to repair, just transfer the engine and radio gear to a new model.


Just a few views from my perspective.

Happy flying.

bikemad

It's funny, I fly on my own and reading this I'm glad I'm not in a club, but it's still funny how people with the same hobby as far as most people and me think are not happy with each other,

mydartswinger

Don't get me wrong, I love flying at my club. The people are good, helpful people, and it's a fun and relaxed atmosphere. They just don't understand helis very well and there's just a few minor issues to be worked out.

bikemad

sorry but I dont go where I don't feel wellcome, I'm abit sensitive that way, I've had it all my life and can do well with out others, just me and a few like minded mates, you can allways justify any thing, like what if the blades come off or you crash, well it can happen to all of us and the one's who talk the loudest usually know the least, not you,
how many people have you seen killed at you field by a heli, you more likey to die on the drive there in you car, if buts and maybes are used to fool the dum, the powers what be use them way to much,
and as for a heli hovering or a fast plane I know which I think is more dangers,and that's the point I think I know but I would'nt say it to anyone,
life is not black and white,
quote
a plane is easier to have some control of where it goes when something goes wrong than a heli. wrong if it jams or brakes or like most you brain locks
and then it goes anywere at full speed, like I said inertia thing with kinetic energy,
well thats my pennys worth, I hope I don't offend any one as I don't mean to,

mydartswinger

None taken. I do agree that it's unlikely to die or even get seriously injured at an RC flying field (much beyond a few stitches, anyway). Just stating what COULD happen and is used as an excuse by people that are scared of helis.

flyinrog

My Feedback: (1)

I think the electric heli business is booming because of the advance of battery tech and because there are more people flying at home in their front yard as opposed to going to the field...or maybe in my case cold weather is keeping me close to home at the schoolyard instead of the field,,our club has 2 fields , one has a heli field the other doesnt..and I agree when one of those .60 glow heli fires up, everybody either watches or watchesout...so many heli flyers are flying/hovering at eye level, and thats part of the problem..we have a pro here and the first time I saw him , he was walking 5 feet from his heli at eye level walking up and down the field,,I thought this guy is nuts!!...I have a cheap LMH, but plan to get a trex 450 soon ,,tax refund ...Rog

mydartswinger

I agree, the electric boom is due to the advance of battery tech. This allows smaller helicopters than one could have before, and cheaper than one could have before, thus allowing more people to be able to afford a heli. This is both a good and bad thing. As was pointed out by bugzilla earlier in this thread, you have the smaller 300 size helis that are generally squirelly getting badged as beginner helis. When a prospective helicopter pilot sees the reduced cost (as I did when I started), they tend to lean towards a that product. In this case, that product would be a 300 size CP heli, which is more for intermediate to advanced pilots. The good is that when people do their homework before making an electric heli purchase, they can purchase a 400-450 class machine, which is much better suited to a beginner. Those helicopters are not that much more than a CP (depending on make, model, and level of completion). In the past, before the advent of micro helicopters, most people (just guessing here) would start out on a .30 size nitro bird. This requires a significant increase in startup costs over a 400-450 electric, including the heli, engine, radio gear, starter, starter shaft, glow ignitor, fuel pump, and spare glow plugs at a minimum. Many of the new breed of 400-450 electrics come RTF with everything needed to fly in the box (normally sans simulator and equipped with cheaper radio gear that is usually replaced as the pilot begins to progress beyond basic flight, sometimes sooner.), making the entrance to the hobby less expensive.

The hovering at eye level should not be a problem as long as the pilot is at a distance from the heli, the heli is at a distance from the pits, and the pilot has control over the heli. However, the walking 5 feet from the heli up and down the field is. While moving, it is more difficult to keep orientation and control over any RC aircraft, but even more so on helis. Also, if the pilot's walking while flying a heli and has control over the heli, they may not have the situational awareness to avoid obstacles in THEIR way, ulimately loosing control of the heli and posing a threat to themself and others at the field. There is also the chance of a mechanical failure, posing greater risk of injury to the pilot walking that close to the heli.

Happy flying.

evan-RCU

I'm not saying it's outright warfare between airplane and helo pilots. There is the same tension between the electrics and fuel people and between the speed planes and slow flyers. Heck within the helo there are the 3D'ers and scale guys. There will always be tensions. Some of the tension in a club that allows both helos and planes (and not all clubs allow both) is that the helo people when learning hover a lot and disrupt the normal pattern of flight for the airplanes if there is no designated hovering flight. many helo people think it's their right to hover over the runway and don't realise how dangerous it is to the normal airplane pattern. Airplane people just flat don't like the helos, their noise, their pilots, and feel they should take their toys elsewhere. Many helo pilots say heck with it and go fly at parks, back yards and stuff where they really shouldn't be flying.

The popularity of "toy" and electric helos has also caused a lot of people that have no buisness trying them hurting themselves and putting spectators, their kids, and themselves in danger.

crashinbash

My Feedback: (1)

I've been in this hobby for close to five years. I've sat back and watched the transition from nitro to electric, and brushless from brushed, nicads to lipo's. As I watch I realise just how dangerous this hobby is and has become. The advancement of electronics and inexpensive prices mean anyone with little or no common sense can go out and buy one of these things, and the most profficiant warning from anyone is in a slim to none manual that says "warning this is not a toy, exercise caution". If you scour youtube you can see this in the general public as there are more stupid careless video's of people goofing off then there now are good pilot demonstrations.

My biggest fear as I'm starting to veer away from the hobby is the chinese and thaiwan market playing a big role in cheap downplayed manufacturing. I'm becoming less and less inclined to continue this hobby as I see one new company after another introduce themselves into helicopter production as they steal, clone, or fabricate cheap copies of perfectly good legitimate products. I'm noticing less and less the big boys in the spot light, such as thunder tiger, Hirrobo, and JR, the companies that share a history in starting this hobby to begin with.

While I do love the practical Idea of a hong kong based site "not naming any site names" selling product for dirt cheap to saticfy those who want to be in the hobby but couldn't before afford it, it looks and feels as if it's slowly destroying the hobby. Even those who have giant expensive rigs with a big fat paycheque are turning to the lesser expensive product at the cost of a few dollars savings. It's companies like Futaba, and Thunder power, Kong power, Hitec, and JR that prove themselves in the industry and fuel fantastic products with our dollars. So much of that money goes into design and technology. Only these truly great companies step up and sponsor young and old pilots in competitions and exhibits.

My unfortunate observation left me to start thinking about getting into planes. As I look around at all the Websites selling planes.... to this I see.... Not much hanger 9, not much GWS, almost no great planes...... just cheap foamie planes and jets with no name electronics copied... cloned... and relabeled.

evan-RCU

While I agree with your point of view I have to say that I remember when all the manufacturers you mention started selling their wares in the U.S. (Thunder Tiger, Hirobo, JR, Futaba, Thunder Power, Kong Power, Hitec, JR, Hanger 9, GWS, and Great Planes) and they were at one point the cheaper alternative. Did they outright copy designs, yes and no, but at a point they got to a point that they had to begin R&D. Most of the old school helo manufacturers have either gone out of buisness or been bought out to the point they are no longer the same company.

All of us have looked at changes in the hobby and say remember when... I remember stories about balsa packing crates for fruits and vegetables being used to build free flight models and people scoffing at the modern kits that gave you everything you needed in a box (not talking ARFs here), then the gradual disapearing of the kits and semi ARFs coming out then morphing into the ready to fly just add batteries kits. I have to say that alot of the new stuff is great. Take for instance a plane I put together Saturday. I had a Dazzler kit I built and have had on floats for snow flying for ten plus years. It crashed last week due to a bad receiver battery. I ordered a new ARF Uproar from Tower got it Friday, assembled it Saturday and flew it Sunday. And it flew every bit as good as the kit built plane. Pics enclosed.

My point is that there is always going to be an easier way, there will always be the people that are lucky they don't kill themselves, and there will always be people that watch and remember when even when "back in the day" was only a few years ago.