RC Jets Discuss RC jets in this forum plus rc turbines and ducted fan power systems

C-ARF Ultra Flash build Thread + Video

Reply
Old 10-16-2011, 01:01 AM
  #1051
Dave Wilshere
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Watford, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 9,601
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: C-ARF Ultra Flash build Thread + Video


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Craig B.

Quote:
Strongest sport jet on the market. 8411's all around as well
+1.......had mine out yesterday with the Jetcat 120sx in it.....pulled 11.75 g's according to the Jetcat GPS and we have maxed her out at 396km/hr....one tough jet. She might graduate to a 140 rx soon....got one coming next week!

I have dubro smoke tanks behind my inlets....not sure if it would be any quicker if I was running a full bypass with the conformal smoke tanks.......opinions?

Craig.
Craig

I think it would be, but you would need to do a back to back test, same day ideally. Though it's quick enough...

Dave
Dave Wilshere is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2011, 05:32 AM
  #1052
AFTERBURNER1
 
AFTERBURNER1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Anaheim Hills, CA
Posts: 4,424
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: C-ARF Ultra Flash build Thread + Video


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Dave Wilshere


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Craig B.

Quote:
Strongest sport jet on the market. 8411's all around as well
+1.......had mine out yesterday with the Jetcat 120sx in it.....pulled 11.75 g's according to the Jetcat GPS and we have maxed her out at 396km/hr....one tough jet. She might graduate to a 140 rx soon....got one coming next week!

I have dubro smoke tanks behind my inlets....not sure if it would be any quicker if I was running a full bypass with the conformal smoke tanks.......opinions?

Craig.

Craig

I think it would be, but you would need to do a back to back test, same day ideally. Though it's quick enough...

Dave
+ 1

246 mph with a 120 set up?
AFTERBURNER1 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2011, 06:09 AM
  #1053
Dave Wilshere
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Watford, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 9,601
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: C-ARF Ultra Flash build Thread + Video

Sounds about right, I have always said my P-120SX Green UF is doing 250mph flat out. Luckily I don't suffer with the small p/b problem those that have to go fast always, show

Dw
Dave Wilshere is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2011, 06:38 AM
  #1054
Craig B.
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: PERTH, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 1,261
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: C-ARF Ultra Flash build Thread + Video

Hi Doug,

I have clocked my ultra at speeds consistently over 370kph ....often around 370-380 measured with jetcat gps on four separate weekends with the 120sx. Speed runs have been done with very careful approach and a well structure dive with minimal elevator input so as to minimise drag. Not sure what your rolling eyeballs are referring to... was it my question about the bypass? I don't want to misinterpret....

The only reason I ask is that many people have an overly simplistic view of the pressure and airflow dynamics that occur within our jets. I hear a lot of talk about the ram air effect and canopies blowing off models because of it and, having spoken to some engineer mates that are knowledgable in that area, I believe that a lot of that supposition is nonsense. I think similar assumptions also get made about bypasses and their value.

Anyway, was curious to hear from those who may have expertise on that topic. My classic flash has the full bypass and is quite quick, the ultra has no bypass joiner and it is quicker...now I know there are many reasons for that and I am not comparing apples with apples, which is why I put the question out there.

Anyway, bottom line is it is a great model and I am just trying to figure out whether it is worthwhile fitting the conformal smoke tanks in preference to what I have atm. Can someone please remind me what their capacity is?

Craig.
Craig B. is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2011, 07:34 AM
  #1055
Craig B.
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: PERTH, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 1,261
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: C-ARF Ultra Flash build Thread + Video

HI Dave,

Thanks for the feedback. The gps has been remarkably consistent so it is not as if there has been one aberrant reading. Pretty sure it is on the mark.

Regards,

Craig.
Craig B. is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2011, 07:36 AM
  #1056
Dave Wilshere
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Watford, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 9,601
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: C-ARF Ultra Flash build Thread + Video

Craig

I flew the original original Classic Flash without inlet tracks and then my first production model with the bye-pass. Both old P-120 powered and my later model had better energy throttle off and looked a little quicker.
The Ultra Flash is a lot quicker than the CF period, wing is way different on drag.
Any air that goes into a bigger space (whole fuselage) slows down. Being forced through the bye-pass maintains a more constant velocity.
But my main reason has always been fire-I would rather contain it

Dave
Dave Wilshere is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2011, 07:47 AM
  #1057
Dave Wilshere
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Watford, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 9,601
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: C-ARF Ultra Flash build Thread + Video

double post!
Dave Wilshere is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2011, 04:30 PM
  #1058
roger.alli
 
roger.alli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Sydney NSW , AUSTRALIA
Posts: 955
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: C-ARF Ultra Flash build Thread + Video


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Craig B.

Quote:
Strongest sport jet on the market. 8411's all around as well
+1.......had mine out yesterday with the Jetcat 120sx in it.....pulled 11.75 g's according to the Jetcat GPS and we have maxed her out at 396km/hr....one tough jet. She might graduate to a 140 rx soon....got one coming next week!

I have dubro smoke tanks behind my inlets....not sure if it would be any quicker if I was running a full bypass with the conformal smoke tanks.......opinions?

Craig.
Hi Craig,

In theory at least, a bypassed installation should be faster than an open engine. This is because the open install has more drag, and drag is a limiting factor to all out top speed.

As air flows through a system, such as the internals of a jet, some drag is created. The amount of drag is dependent on a whole bunch of factors, but any change in direction and velocity add to the drag. At very high speed, there is a LOT of air flowing through a model jet, much more then the turbine uses. As Dave surmises, having the flow contained within a duct greatly reduces the changes in direction and velocity, and therefore drag.

There is a million threads here on weather to bypass or not, and which is best. My personal opinion is that a correctly designed bypass is more efficient, and therefore correct. However, most model jets fly perfectly well without a bypass.

I think you will have to experiment to find out which is fastest. I would be interested in the result.

Roger
roger.alli is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2011, 04:38 PM
  #1059
KC36330
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Enterprise, AL
Posts: 5,952
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: C-ARF Ultra Flash build Thread + Video


Quote:
ORIGINAL: AFTERBURNER1

+ 1

246 mph with a 120 set up?
Ultra must cut the drag WAY down, with the classic that was ballpark for a 160
KC36330 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2011, 05:43 PM
  #1060
ddlstang
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Broken Arrow, OK
Posts: 522
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: C-ARF Ultra Flash build Thread + Video

At our field we have 3 classics flying, one with a P160, one with a K140 and the other with a cheatah. So far the fastest has been the K140, but we are talking all within a 10-15mph window. I believe the airframe is limited to a certain speed and would take a huge jump in power to overcome that wall. As for me I am going to keep it at half throttle, covers too much ground otherwise. Besides now that we know we cant do that any more [:-]
ddlstang is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2011, 11:18 PM
  #1061
Ali
 
Ali's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Northamptonshire , UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 4,975
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: C-ARF Ultra Flash build Thread + Video

I try not make make assumptions about another person based on how they want to fly a toy plane, just because its a different manner to what I choose..... W.T.F ?? [] If you want to fly fast.. then go for it. I can't ever remember getting into jets because they flew slowly to be honest... As long as you keep it safe then I have no issue... A badly set up/ flown or maintained jet is going to do just as much harm at 250 Mph as it is 275!
What I can tell you is that I have logged a whole bunch ( Looking at my GSU it would suggest 65 to 70 flights) on my stock built Ultra Flash and its superb. Could I trade it or downgrade for a 120 or a P-80.... Hell No! I never was the biggest standard flash fan, but this Ultra is without a doubt leaps ahead better. It flies slow, it flies fast. It's pure, and its bloody strong. I get 8 mins on my set up ( Which is exactly the same time as my P-120 version flies for. I think the reason for this similar flight time, whilst having completely different performances is the bypass. Let me explain. Nothing too technical or aerodynamic here I am afraid guys. Just a simple guys evaluation based on stick time, and feel.
In California a few weeks ago, I got to fly a Titan powered UF of Afterburners. Whilst it flew just as well as either of my flashes back home, the top end speed was remarkably different. I was expecting some speed difference due to the power plant, but what I experienced really surprised me. With the non bypass install I found that in a dive the model would reach a speed and just stop accelerating. I would have the nose down, and be expecting the model to keep ramping up that little bit more... but nothing. Of course I could now see a big top end speed difference as well. What I also found was the massive drop in inertia and energy retention.
On My UF I can do a full power run and as I am getting to runway centre, cut the power ( My last pass of the day I actually shut the turbine off ) then pull to vertical. On the energy alone I then let it climb vertically. With my bypassed model I get to a dot ( Almost out of sight ) I can then do almost 3 mins on the glide till touch down. Although normally I just do a sequence of aeros. With the open install, it was as if I had a huge air brake on. The vertical climb was cut in half, and then the subsequent dive was much shorter and harder work.
I will have a UF in the fleet from now on, no mater what. That UF will have a powerful turbine, no matter what. That bigger turbine will be fully bypassed... no mater what Thats not to say that the model performs badly on the open install. I had a blast flying the UF of Afterburner in Cali ( Thanks again for) It's just that I think its a slightly better all round set up when its all cleaned up internally.
Hope this feed back helps? and I hope you guys keep enjoying your UF's. They are a great plane, and if you get half as much out of yours as you do mine, you will be happy.
Regards Al
Ali is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2011, 11:31 PM
  #1062
Steve Moore
 
Steve Moore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Bristol, , UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 86
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: C-ARF Ultra Flash build Thread + Video

Hi Ali,

Have you got metal servo arms on you UF or are you using HD nylon arms? I was originally putting a 120 in my UF until I saw your 160 powered version at the nats and so have put a 160 in mine, what elevator servos are you running? 8321's?

Thanks in advance


Steve
Steve Moore is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2011, 11:54 PM
  #1063
Craig B.
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: PERTH, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 1,261
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: C-ARF Ultra Flash build Thread + Video

Thanks Ali,

Good feedback. I will look into the conformal fuel cells I think.

Regards,

Craig.
Craig B. is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2011, 12:55 AM
  #1064
Ali
 
Ali's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Northamptonshire , UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 4,975
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: C-ARF Ultra Flash build Thread + Video

Hi Steve.
JR 8411's all round using the Plastic "SuperServo" arm. These don't come as standard with the 8411's ( They do with the 8511 upward) Good luck with your Ultra and your small p/b problem... LOL I can't imagine anything to do with you being classed as small Steve!
Craig. No Worries.
Regards Al
Ali is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2011, 02:09 AM
  #1065
Steve Moore
 
Steve Moore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Bristol, , UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 86
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: C-ARF Ultra Flash build Thread + Video

Nope, I don't do small!!!!

I suppose I should put my hand in my pocket and buy 2 8411 for the elevator, I have 8321's at the moment but will change them over, (Just ordered them through your website Ali)




Steve
Steve Moore is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2011, 02:46 AM
  #1066
Ali
 
Ali's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Northamptonshire , UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 4,975
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: C-ARF Ultra Flash build Thread + Video

I would Steve. There is nothing worse than that feeling of doing a down hill run and wondering if that elevator stick is going to have anything left to level you out at the end of it.
Thankyou for the order. Mail order dept have them pulled and ready to go out. They should be with you in the morning. Did you have the super servo arms, or did you need a set sending with the servos?
Regards Al
Ali is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2011, 02:50 AM
  #1067
Steve Moore
 
Steve Moore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Bristol, , UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 86
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: C-ARF Ultra Flash build Thread + Video

No I have got the super arms on the 8321's already fitted to the UF so I will swap then over, thanks for the offer though,

Cheers buddy


Steve
Steve Moore is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2011, 01:14 AM
  #1068
Nils_Hammon
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Frankfurt, GERMANY
Posts: 22
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: C-ARF Ultra Flash build Thread + Video


Quote:
ORIGINAL: wojtek

Check out what Shui ( www.shulmanaviation.com ) hooked me up with [8D] ..

these are the new smoke/fuel saddle tanks from CARF for the Flashes ( regular and UF)

Its a super tight fit, but it fits, bypas and all ... im in the process of rerouting some of the cables ...


on another note, i just saw my elevator hinge is lifting up [&o] .. bumped it likely on a landing as the horns are scraped .. I'll fix it for now, but i'll feel better ordering a new elevator for the long haul ... anyway, the its an amazing flying jet !


~V~
Sorry, been a few pages back already but wanted to come back to those saddle tanks. What are people's views on hooking them up with the main tank? There should be three possibilities in theory:
1. main tank and saddle tanks in parallel and all feeding into the UAT
2. saddle tanks feeding into the main tank which in turn feeds into the UAT
3. main tank feeding into the saddle tanks which in turn feed into the UAT

Is there any obvious choice here?

Thanks guys!
Nils_Hammon is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2011, 01:32 AM
  #1069
Ali
 
Ali's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Northamptonshire , UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 4,975
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: C-ARF Ultra Flash build Thread + Video

Some simple videos taken from our SLR at the weekend... Must teach Simon how to zoom [&:]

Take off and some low power setting flight whilst I waited for sky to clear.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ut5Yjbq5l2o


Some slightly faster flying

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imqTtwce398

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-LAHexRBAc


Enjoy!

Regards Al
Ali is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2011, 03:09 AM
  #1070
Ruymán
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: S/C de Tenerife, SPAIN
Posts: 61
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: C-ARF Ultra Flash build Thread + Video

Hi Aly!

Impressive speed past!

It looks that the plane is ready to go very fast, that's what made me decide to buy one just two days!

Do we say that Turbine could mount and servos?

My station is a Super 8FG and thought put to all controls the Futaba S9156 and I'm thinking Turbine Jet Cat P140 new!

Greetings.
Ruymán is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2011, 07:46 AM
  #1071
SniperWj
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: KUCHING, MALAYSIA
Posts: 231
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: C-ARF Ultra Flash build Thread + Video

Ali,

thanks for your UF video, i know what suit me best.




Yiming
SniperWj is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2011, 09:50 AM
  #1072
Selleri
 
Selleri's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Keflavik, ICELAND
Posts: 1,116
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: C-ARF Ultra Flash build Thread + Video

Must resist the urge to unpack mine, think I'll uncrate one with a mate instead!

Quote:
ORIGINAL: Ali
Some simple videos taken from our SLR at the weekend... Must teach Simon how to zoom [&:]
Not too much though, it can get shaky real quick. [:@]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wixZhlPx_Q4[/youtube]
Selleri is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2011, 09:51 AM
  #1073
AFTERBURNER1
 
AFTERBURNER1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Anaheim Hills, CA
Posts: 4,424
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: C-ARF Ultra Flash build Thread + Video


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Ali

I try not make make assumptions about another person based on how they want to fly a toy plane, just because its a different manner to what I choose..... W.T.F ?? [] If you want to fly fast.. then go for it. I can't ever remember getting into jets because they flew slowly to be honest... As long as you keep it safe then I have no issue... A badly set up/ flown or maintained jet is going to do just as much harm at 250 Mph as it is 275!
What I can tell you is that I have logged a whole bunch ( Looking at my GSU it would suggest 65 to 70 flights) on my stock built Ultra Flash and its superb. Could I trade it or downgrade for a 120 or a P-80.... Hell No! I never was the biggest standard flash fan, but this Ultra is without a doubt leaps ahead better. It flies slow, it flies fast. It's pure, and its bloody strong. I get 8 mins on my set up ( Which is exactly the same time as my P-120 version flies for. I think the reason for this similar flight time, whilst having completely different performances is the bypass. Let me explain. Nothing too technical or aerodynamic here I am afraid guys. Just a simple guys evaluation based on stick time, and feel.
In California a few weeks ago, I got to fly a Titan powered UF of Afterburners. Whilst it flew just as well as either of my flashes back home, the top end speed was remarkably different. I was expecting some speed difference due to the power plant, but what I experienced really surprised me. With the non bypass install I found that in a dive the model would reach a speed and just stop accelerating. I would have the nose down, and be expecting the model to keep ramping up that little bit more... but nothing. Of course I could now see a big top end speed difference as well. What I also found was the massive drop in inertia and energy retention.
On My UF I can do a full power run and as I am getting to runway centre, cut the power ( My last pass of the day I actually shut the turbine off ) then pull to vertical. On the energy alone I then let it climb vertically. With my bypassed model I get to a dot ( Almost out of sight ) I can then do almost 3 mins on the glide till touch down. Although normally I just do a sequence of aeros. With the open install, it was as if I had a huge air brake on. The vertical climb was cut in half, and then the subsequent dive was much shorter and harder work.
I will have a UF in the fleet from now on, no mater what. That UF will have a powerful turbine, no matter what. That bigger turbine will be fully bypassed... no mater what Thats not to say that the model performs badly on the open install. I had a blast flying the UF of Afterburner in Cali ( Thanks again for) It's just that I think its a slightly better all round set up when its all cleaned up internally.
Hope this feed back helps? and I hope you guys keep enjoying your UF's. They are a great plane, and if you get half as much out of yours as you do mine, you will be happy.
Regards Al
Alright my friend,,,,, Sold!!!! I will have the bypass installed in my new UF when it arrives. It's still gonna have some round slim Jim smoke tanks though. .
AFTERBURNER1 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2011, 09:56 AM
  #1074
AFTERBURNER1
 
AFTERBURNER1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Anaheim Hills, CA
Posts: 4,424
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: C-ARF Ultra Flash build Thread + Video

The bypass is included with the kit yes?????
AFTERBURNER1 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2011, 10:31 AM
  #1075
Selleri
 
Selleri's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Keflavik, ICELAND
Posts: 1,116
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: C-ARF Ultra Flash build Thread + Video

Yes it is.
Selleri is offline  
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 08:44 AM.