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The new Tornado sport jet

Old 11-15-2014, 04:44 AM
  #3576  
aquaskiman
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Originally Posted by Ysj2482 View Post
Has anyone else out there been wronged by Henry? Im not trying to turn this into a hate thread but I don't tolerate being ripped off. His website no longer exists so he is gone out of the RC world (hopefully). I just called the number he had listed in the original posting of this thread and he answered (dumb move Henry). I'm not sure what options there are for any of us that have been wronged but if you have, please PM me and I will be happy to see if any options exist. I will say that Modellbau UK has nothing to do with my situation. They have been nothing but helpful since my original posting.
I had some bad dealings with Henry and discovered he was a fast talking salesman, not to be trusted. I posted many times on this post that Henry was lying about this jet being anything but a falcon in a different skin. Then I was blasted by the Henry lovers that followed him. So what do they think now that Henry is gone, no parts and there crappy landing gear is bent. Navy Cat is the true revamped Falcon and the gear is strong. I built one for a friend and was impressed.
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Old 11-15-2014, 07:26 AM
  #3577  
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Well said Xairflyer.

Xairflyer has been involved with this airframe since the Falcon 120 (in case you don't know an IC airframe) which was the original incarnation, the amount of work needed on the Tornado is far less than with the Falcon, but as Xair has said it still requires knowledge, Looking carefully, building and modifying to achieve the amount of structural integrity needed to perform as a turbine airframe, if you want an airframe that you don't have to do anything to then I am afraid you have to pay the necessary price.

Henry? well to be honest some of us can say "I told you so"

Mike
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Old 11-15-2014, 07:29 AM
  #3578  
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Originally Posted by Xairflyer View Post
You cant expect any of these chineese artf's to be just put together and flown, what you buy is a kit that has been assembled for you, you then have to go through it all, add bits of wood where needed and re-glue areas. It is easy to just snap the formers out of these things in one piece due to the flour and water the chineese use for glue.

I hysol everything that is structural, especially formers and attachment points inside the booms, then run Titebond pva in every opening I can get at inside wings, booms, tailplane etc. It is easy to let the glue run down the seems into the wing, takes a bit of time turning it so it all flows where you want but adds a lot of strength to badly glued areas.

If you do nothing then it will come apart, it will pull out the undercarriage blocks out of the wing.
These things are cheap treat them as that and make them better, if you dont know how then you should'nt be buying one in the first place.
I learned that the hard way years ago on a Hanger 9 ARF when the firewall pulled out in flight. I always reinforce/re-glue what I can get to, but there is always a lot that you can't get to unless you are willing to tear off covering and sheeting. Insure that your servos, linkages and hinging are strong and stiff enough to prevent flutter. Use common sense when flying. Manage the throttle so that you don't build excessive speed. Don't yank the plane around in sharp, high stress maneuvers. Fly large, smooth aerobatics that limit the stress on the airframe.

One other thing about this plane ... it tends to bounce / porpoise on landing. If you get into a sever bounce situation, make sure that you haven't done internal damage to the wing structure.
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Old 11-15-2014, 07:35 AM
  #3579  
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It won't bounce or porpoise on landing if you use crow braking, over 60degs of flap (air-brake) and 7/9mm up aileron, the reflex on the ailerons reduce lift and help prevent the tips of the wings stalling before the root, due to the reduction in lift the landings will be shorter and help prevent bounce or porpoising, unless you land it on the nose wheel first that is.

Mike
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Old 11-15-2014, 08:56 AM
  #3580  
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Yea, I got screwed by Henry. Won't go into any further details.
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Old 11-15-2014, 09:41 AM
  #3581  
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We need details.

Mike
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Old 11-15-2014, 10:34 AM
  #3582  
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Originally Posted by BaldEagel View Post
It won't bounce or porpoise on landing if you use crow braking, over 60degs of flap (air-brake) and 7/9mm up aileron, the reflex on the ailerons reduce lift and help prevent the tips of the wings stalling before the root, due to the reduction in lift the landings will be shorter and help prevent bounce or porpoising, unless you land it on the nose wheel first that is.

Mike
I am using about 3.25"/83mm of flap (not sure of the angle) and about 1/4" (7-8mm) of crow. I don't see any tendency to drop a wing. I can avoid bouncing most of the time, but even the smallest bounce will turn into much bigger bounces. I have the trailing link gear and I think the nose spring is too stiff, which I've seen on other planes can contribute to the bounce effect.

One impression I have is that my K-80G has more residual thrust than the guys flying these with P-60's. I'm going to see if I can rework my linkage to get slightly more flap.

Greg
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Old 11-15-2014, 02:38 PM
  #3583  
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If you nose gear spring is contributing to the bounce effect it could be that you have the C of G too far forward, i.e. to much weight on the nose and it drops when you land, you should be able to hold the nose up in the air whilst the landing runs out to such a slow speed it can't take off again or bounce.

Mike
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Old 11-15-2014, 03:24 PM
  #3584  
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Your nose strut may be too long. If it's too light on the nose wheel it will bounce easily. Measure the center of the airfoil at the front and back next to the fuse. The front should be slightly higher. About 1 to 2 degrees of nose up attitude is ideal.
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Old 11-15-2014, 07:45 PM
  #3585  
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Originally Posted by Xairflyer View Post
You cant expect any of these chineese artf's to be just put together and flown, what you buy is a kit that has been assembled for you, you then have to go through it all, add bits of wood where needed and re-glue areas. It is easy to just snap the formers out of these things in one piece due to the flour and water the chineese use for glue.

I hysol everything that is structural, especially formers and attachment points inside the booms, then run Titebond pva in every opening I can get at inside wings, booms, tailplane etc. It is easy to let the glue run down the seems into the wing, takes a bit of time turning it so it all flows where you want but adds a lot of strength to badly glued areas.

If you do nothing then it will come apart, it will pull out the undercarriage blocks out of the wing.
These things are cheap treat them as that and make them better, if you dont know how then you should'nt be buying one in the first place.
Without taking the whole thing apart and re-building it myself I did add Hysol to the formers in the fuse, as well as carbon fiber w/ west systems resin to the fuse and inside the landing gear mounts. I assumed that would have been sufficient. But obviously not. You get what you pay for I guess.

Z
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Old 11-16-2014, 04:16 AM
  #3586  
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I have owned 2 tornados and the last one had close to 200 flights on it before a midair with a trainer took it out for good. I built a Navy Cat for a friend and it is basically identical to the Tornado's that Henry had been selling long ago. The difference in my opinion is that the Navy Cat Quality is way better the Tornado was. I have 2 of the navy Cat's in the box and they will be hitting the bench soon. For me it is my all around go to jet. Easy to transport and a wide speed envelope.

I found that by slowing down my servo speed she behaved much nicer and the landings where super slow and smooth. I got to the point where I was flying it out of my local field. I only needed a couple hundred feet for take off and landing.

Of course with any jet you have to go through the airframe and make sure it is strong and safe to fly. My boomerangs where twice the cost and the quality compared to the Navy Cat sucked big time.

Just my 2 cents
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Old 11-16-2014, 06:51 AM
  #3587  
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Slowing down your servo speed???? please explain, I do hope you mean Expo.

I can understand slowing down your servos speed on Flap deployment/crow and elevator compensation for the flap, but not for any other surface.

Mike

Last edited by BaldEagel; 11-16-2014 at 06:53 AM.
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Old 11-16-2014, 09:16 AM
  #3588  
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Have a Navy Cat and I feel the quality is excellent checked all with a bore scope and found no bad joints. It is a wooden film covered airframe and can not be overpowered yanked around the sky like a composite. For those on a limited budget it is the best bang for the buck anywhere. With a used turbine it can be in the air for under $2000-$2500.The only thing I replaced were the servo extensions with Aloft Hobbies and ball links with Dubro as they were to sloppy
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Old 11-16-2014, 11:21 AM
  #3589  
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Hey Guys,
I thought Tornados, Falcon 120, & the other one that sells in the UK I think they call the Keslar!! were Navy Cats the company that make them have just changed the name to Navy Cats!!! In the US they call it the Torndao. In Australia they call it the Falcon 120.
In the UK they call it the Keslar its the same plane just different name!!! The company that make this model now call it the Navy Cat!!
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Old 11-16-2014, 11:44 AM
  #3590  
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Mike....in todays world of high torque and high speed servos I find that the servo speed is needed when flying 3D type airplanes. It isn't needed as much as the torque is and also the centering of the servo. especially at high speeds. By slowing down the servo speed just a tad to take the "edge" off of it the jet behaved much nicer and smoother. On my nose wheel I turned is down a bit more.

Many times you'll see a guy get into trouble because he'll start slapping the joysticks around and the servos are way faster than most of us and our reflexes.

I also dial in about 30% expo on all controls.

Each of us have our own likes and dislikes when it comes to setting up and airframe. For me by taking the edge of the servo speed helped tremendously. Especially in the landing flare.
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Old 11-16-2014, 11:49 AM
  #3591  
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The Falcon 120 is the non carbon reinforced version of the Navy Cat. There are a lot of Falcon 120's out there and they are not made in the same factory with quality being the difference. The Falcon needs many mods for turbine use and the Navy Cat is ready for turbine use including the 84oz fuel tank and turbine mount.
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Old 11-16-2014, 12:53 PM
  #3592  
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Originally Posted by toolmaker7341 View Post
The Falcon 120 is the non carbon reinforced version of the Navy Cat. There are a lot of Falcon 120's out there and they are not made in the same factory with quality being the difference. The Falcon needs many mods for turbine use and the Navy Cat is ready for turbine use including the 84oz fuel tank and turbine mount.
Fly Model Factory makes all these models. They stick with Falcon 120 for all their models but call the turbine version the Falcon 120 carbon. Basically the same model just different label. Some models come out better than others due to inconsistent Quality Control. Best to reinforce all the formers & areas you can see. Very rarely do they come apart in the air. Normally those not with a glued tail plane and just screwed together. Just too week without this glue line sealed
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Old 11-16-2014, 04:48 PM
  #3593  
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Why is your "Kestrel" Navy Cat USA name so expensive? $1200usd (airframe & retracts vs $600 for air frame and retracts here?
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Old 11-16-2014, 09:37 PM
  #3594  
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Originally Posted by toolmaker7341 View Post
Why is your "Kestrel" Navy Cat USA name so expensive? $1200usd (airframe & retracts vs $600 for air frame and retracts here?
I have no idea. Send me photos of the retracts you use. I can get cheap ones specified for this model for around $50. Mine sell at the price I sell them at and always have. No complaints, rock solid set up. Guess people pays their money and makes their choice. Sold out at this price last year at Jetpower. I only have one left in stock now and am awaiting further stock to arrive.

Last edited by ModellbauUK; 11-16-2014 at 10:14 PM.
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Old 11-16-2014, 09:40 PM
  #3595  
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Any one need any spares such as wings, booms, tailplanes & fuselages let me know. Happy to ship anywhere worldwide.
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Old 11-17-2014, 04:20 AM
  #3596  
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All these chineese art'f are built fast, next time someone at your field crashes one look at the construction, especially built up wings, very nicely assembled but with very minimum glue, I'd say about 1/10 of what we would use if building it ourselves. Some areas no glue at all maybe just a dab on each end of the rib to hold it in place.

When loads are applied to the wing you need those loads to be transited through the whole wing if possible i.e. sharing the load, forces need to make it to the main spare for maximum strength, if say the last couple of ribs are just slightly glued then when a force is applied to the tip they will just break off rather than sending that load down the spars.
That is why the fully sheeted wings are better, more area and more contact to spread loads, also greatly increases torsional loads, which are more common on jets due to the speeds. (wings try to twist in flight)

With a bit of time it is easy enough to run glue into wings through the root, flap & aileron servo hatches and undercarriage holes, I have over 200 flights on my Navycat and have no fears of it coming apart in flight.
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Old 11-17-2014, 04:43 AM
  #3597  
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Originally Posted by gsmarino2000 View Post
I learned that the hard way years ago on a Hanger 9 ARF when the firewall pulled out in flight.
.
Was it the P51 by any chance? friend had one and on first flight it was flying along nicely then the whole front firewall forward fell off

Even hangar9 which is meant to be a better quality kit are still built in China is probably the same factory s using the brush dipped in bucket of flour and water method for gluing

Interesting seen recently seagull models whom I like alot and have build many of their models have been posting lots of in factory pictures on facebook, sitting around the floor were boxes with eflite and multiplex on them
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Old 11-17-2014, 07:24 AM
  #3598  
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I must be lucky as I said before I checked all joints (wing fuse and booms) with a bore scope and found no bad glue joints so regluing would be a waste of glue and added weight. The retracts are what ever comes with the Navy Cat in the USA and they appear the same design as Skymaster sells.
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Old 11-17-2014, 10:27 AM
  #3599  
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The Navy Cat retracts are air power or a air power copy. They are strong, The one I built for a friend have been tested well.
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Old 11-17-2014, 12:14 PM
  #3600  
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Hey Guys,
If Henry is not selling these Tornados any more who is selling them in the USA!!
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