Winter project - Skymaster Large BAE Hawk
11-14-2010, 06:43 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Winter project - Skymaster Large BAE Hawk
Time to put the Hawk up on the building table.
I received it in April, but decided to put it on hold over the summer to have somthing to do in the winter months.
The plan is to have it ready for February/ March when we start to fly of frozen lakes, so no rush.
The Hawk is a little mix between Hawk 100 and a normal Hawk. I wanted a military scheme, and ordered it with wing tip missile rails, underwing tanks and also the two fins in front of the elevator as on the H100.
Power is going to be a P160 SX. I bought a PowerBox Cockpit at JetPower, so that one is going in too. I am also installing a V7 light kit from Airfighter.eu
The fuselage bottoms are very thin and flexes a lot when you lift the model, so I glued in some CF sqare tubes to stiffen it up.
Then onto the elevators and vertical fin. The elevator system is very nice and rigid, but it is very important to mechanically match the two servos 100% so they don't fight each other.
Tried several combinations of servos and horns and found two that vere 100% identical, installed the control horn and made up the linkages.
The 7955 TG's are so precise that it was impossible to get rid of the buzzing completely, so I increased the deadband a bit with the servo programmer (from 1 to 3) and now they work very well.
The torque rod for the rudder enters the fuselage at an angle to the rudder servo, so I twisted the control arms 15-20 deg. so they are paralell with the linkages. It's a bit thight to work in there with big hands.
Then hinged the rudder to the fin. The pre-drilled holes from SM matched up 100%.
Ran the servo and lighting cables forward and shielded them from heat with alu tape.
The speed brake cylinder is very close to the pipe, so installed a strip of alu plate to shield it from heat.
Glued the Ventral and side fins with epoxy. I thought i read somewhere that the ventrals are 20 deg of vertical, so aligned them with a digital gauge from Dreamworks. The side fins point 3 deg. down. Not sure if it is correct, but it looks OK.
I received it in April, but decided to put it on hold over the summer to have somthing to do in the winter months.
The plan is to have it ready for February/ March when we start to fly of frozen lakes, so no rush.
The Hawk is a little mix between Hawk 100 and a normal Hawk. I wanted a military scheme, and ordered it with wing tip missile rails, underwing tanks and also the two fins in front of the elevator as on the H100.
Power is going to be a P160 SX. I bought a PowerBox Cockpit at JetPower, so that one is going in too. I am also installing a V7 light kit from Airfighter.eu
The fuselage bottoms are very thin and flexes a lot when you lift the model, so I glued in some CF sqare tubes to stiffen it up.
Then onto the elevators and vertical fin. The elevator system is very nice and rigid, but it is very important to mechanically match the two servos 100% so they don't fight each other.
Tried several combinations of servos and horns and found two that vere 100% identical, installed the control horn and made up the linkages.
The 7955 TG's are so precise that it was impossible to get rid of the buzzing completely, so I increased the deadband a bit with the servo programmer (from 1 to 3) and now they work very well.
The torque rod for the rudder enters the fuselage at an angle to the rudder servo, so I twisted the control arms 15-20 deg. so they are paralell with the linkages. It's a bit thight to work in there with big hands.
Then hinged the rudder to the fin. The pre-drilled holes from SM matched up 100%.
Ran the servo and lighting cables forward and shielded them from heat with alu tape.
The speed brake cylinder is very close to the pipe, so installed a strip of alu plate to shield it from heat.
Glued the Ventral and side fins with epoxy. I thought i read somewhere that the ventrals are 20 deg of vertical, so aligned them with a digital gauge from Dreamworks. The side fins point 3 deg. down. Not sure if it is correct, but it looks OK.
11-17-2010, 07:11 AM
#4
Thread Starter
RE: Winter project - Skymaster Large BAE Hawk
Fuel tank.
The tank need to go as high up in the airframe as possible to give clearence for the main door cylinders. I also turned the cylinder 180 deg around so the air nipples face outward to give an extra mm or two.
Some grinding to the formers was needed to get the all the way up to the top former.
Tank is secured to the top former and the intake duct with two brackets and goes out by remowing 4 screws
11-17-2010, 09:49 AM
#5
RE: Winter project - Skymaster Large BAE Hawk
I do like this large Hawk....Debating what to get for myself next year, one of these is high on the list 
On the two I've built I had to move the location of the rams and use a longer stroke, one had Robart rams the other UP. I know on Ali's first he had the inner doors constantly blow open in the standard set up so I moved them further outboard. Might be worth doing while it's all accessible....
On the two I've built I had to move the location of the rams and use a longer stroke, one had Robart rams the other UP. I know on Ali's first he had the inner doors constantly blow open in the standard set up so I moved them further outboard. Might be worth doing while it's all accessible....
11-17-2010, 06:28 PM
#6
Thread Starter
RE: Winter project - Skymaster Large BAE Hawk
Thanks for your input Alex.
I'll check how much force the cylinders have on the doors before I proceed.
What UP and Robart cylinders are used?
On to the wings.
It's a good idea to remove the gear and tighten up the bolts with locktite. On mine there was a lot of bolts that was not tightened very well and even loose. The gear and oleos are very nice and fat, and is one of the reasons i bought the plane.
I did reinforce the area under the retract mounts a bit. There is very little left of the two formers under the retracts and I hear that is where it breaks and tearing the top skin with it.
I used hysol and glued in place some CF square rods to support the thin formers.
Aso going the reinforce the wing root facing the fuselage as it consists of only balsa with a thin layer of fibreglass.
I had hinged the flaps earlier before I put it away for the summer. A crappy job as you have to grind away so much material in the wings and flaps for the deep hinges. Used over half of an hysol cartridge to fill the pockets before the hinges went in, so I guess they will not come off anytime soon
pics
I'll check how much force the cylinders have on the doors before I proceed.
What UP and Robart cylinders are used?
On to the wings.
It's a good idea to remove the gear and tighten up the bolts with locktite. On mine there was a lot of bolts that was not tightened very well and even loose. The gear and oleos are very nice and fat, and is one of the reasons i bought the plane.
I did reinforce the area under the retract mounts a bit. There is very little left of the two formers under the retracts and I hear that is where it breaks and tearing the top skin with it.
I used hysol and glued in place some CF square rods to support the thin formers.
Aso going the reinforce the wing root facing the fuselage as it consists of only balsa with a thin layer of fibreglass.
I had hinged the flaps earlier before I put it away for the summer. A crappy job as you have to grind away so much material in the wings and flaps for the deep hinges. Used over half of an hysol cartridge to fill the pockets before the hinges went in, so I guess they will not come off anytime soon
pics
11-18-2010, 03:44 AM
#7
Thread Starter
RE: Winter project - Skymaster Large BAE Hawk
Installed the control horns for flaps and ailerons.
Replaced the SM horns with the smaller ones from BVM since they are easier to fit.
On the flaps you have to make the holes for the linkage rod through no less than 3 bulkheads back from the servo bays to exit the LE. There was also no holes for the servo wires in the servo bays or ribs, so the 90deg Proxon tool is invaluable. But there is one rib 15 cm from the wing roots that also need a hole that is a bit tricky to get to.
The funny thing is that this rib has a milled "X" in one wing and a "Z" in the other wing. Anyone have a clue as to why? See the pics...
To get the horns in identical places so the linkage geometry will be the same in each wing I made a jig out of a piece of ply and a and a piece of piano wire. One for the aileron and one for the flaps. Very easy to do, and does the job great.
Replaced the SM horns with the smaller ones from BVM since they are easier to fit.
On the flaps you have to make the holes for the linkage rod through no less than 3 bulkheads back from the servo bays to exit the LE. There was also no holes for the servo wires in the servo bays or ribs, so the 90deg Proxon tool is invaluable. But there is one rib 15 cm from the wing roots that also need a hole that is a bit tricky to get to.
The funny thing is that this rib has a milled "X" in one wing and a "Z" in the other wing. Anyone have a clue as to why? See the pics...
To get the horns in identical places so the linkage geometry will be the same in each wing I made a jig out of a piece of ply and a and a piece of piano wire. One for the aileron and one for the flaps. Very easy to do, and does the job great.
12-10-2010, 05:09 PM
#8
Thread Starter
RE: Winter project - Skymaster Large BAE Hawk
Time to update.
I have run in to some problems with the flap hinge fairings.
The hinges are glued in place a long time ago and now it was time to fit the fairings.
The fairings are 2 big for the center hinge and 4 small for the outer and inner hinge.
The hinges have recesses that rest on the wing skin surface, so how deep they will go is given. The hinges are 45,7 mm high.
The big fairings fit with 1 mm of clearance (after dremeling out a lot of glue on the inside) and are about 45,7 mm high also. No problem.
Problem is that the small fairings are much too small. The 4 small fairings range from 38-40 mm deep and have no way of fitting and makes a big gap between wing and fairing.
I have contacted SM about this and told them that I want 4 more big fairings that will cover the hinges. OK - not scale, but it will fix the problem.
The reply from SM was to send me 4 new hinges that is supposed to be smaller.
I told them that the hinges was glued in place with plenty of Hysol, so taking them out was not and option, and that I wanted 4 BIG fairings.
Then I get a mail from Morne:
"Sorry for the problem with the hinges. After SM change to carbon hinges i should have modified the manual....
The hinges are too long. You will need to cut them shorter then fit to fairing and then check operation.
If happy then only glue to wing. It looks like all your hinge pivot points are same high. The ones on the sides should be lower to fit fairing. Also trim front and back to fit the fairing.
If you damaged the hinges when taking them out – we will send new hinges..."
What...? Hinge pivot points are not supposed to be in a line, but high up in the center and lower on the inner and outer side... i my book that would make the flap pretty un-movable.
My reply:
"The hinges are glued in place with plenty of hysol, so removing them is not an option.
And how could the flap move if the pivot points are not lined up? I thought lining up the pivot points are essential for free movement.
I want fairings that fit. Easy as that. The big ones in the center fit, and I can live with that it is not excact scale. I would need 4 big fairings.
As I said; spending lots of hours and making a mess on the wings taking out the hinges is not an option!"
Morne replies: "OK We send new big farings"
Now we are talking
Then I get this mail from John:
Can we send you four smaller fairings and four new hinges? They fit well here.
Now I get a little frustrated. What part of that "the hinges ARE GLUED IN PLACE" and "taking them out is NOT AN OPTION" don't the understand??
All I want is to have 4 BIG FAIRINGS and this whole problem goes away...
I sent this reply, hoping it will be OK now:
"John.
Please understand. The hinges are allready glued in place so I can't take them out.
So i need 4 LARGE fairings."
Seem to some language problems or something.
The hinges are probably different now from the ones I got.
Either way... The hinges are too big, or the fairings are too small. The best and quickest fix is to just install 4 LARGE fairings and everything will be OK.
Hoping it will work out now
Other Hawk owners: What is your experience with the hinges and fairings??
I have run in to some problems with the flap hinge fairings.
The hinges are glued in place a long time ago and now it was time to fit the fairings.
The fairings are 2 big for the center hinge and 4 small for the outer and inner hinge.
The hinges have recesses that rest on the wing skin surface, so how deep they will go is given. The hinges are 45,7 mm high.
The big fairings fit with 1 mm of clearance (after dremeling out a lot of glue on the inside) and are about 45,7 mm high also. No problem.
Problem is that the small fairings are much too small. The 4 small fairings range from 38-40 mm deep and have no way of fitting and makes a big gap between wing and fairing.
I have contacted SM about this and told them that I want 4 more big fairings that will cover the hinges. OK - not scale, but it will fix the problem.
The reply from SM was to send me 4 new hinges that is supposed to be smaller.
I told them that the hinges was glued in place with plenty of Hysol, so taking them out was not and option, and that I wanted 4 BIG fairings.
Then I get a mail from Morne:
"Sorry for the problem with the hinges. After SM change to carbon hinges i should have modified the manual....
The hinges are too long. You will need to cut them shorter then fit to fairing and then check operation.
If happy then only glue to wing. It looks like all your hinge pivot points are same high. The ones on the sides should be lower to fit fairing. Also trim front and back to fit the fairing.
If you damaged the hinges when taking them out – we will send new hinges..."
What...? Hinge pivot points are not supposed to be in a line, but high up in the center and lower on the inner and outer side... i my book that would make the flap pretty un-movable.
My reply:
"The hinges are glued in place with plenty of hysol, so removing them is not an option.
And how could the flap move if the pivot points are not lined up? I thought lining up the pivot points are essential for free movement.
I want fairings that fit. Easy as that. The big ones in the center fit, and I can live with that it is not excact scale. I would need 4 big fairings.
As I said; spending lots of hours and making a mess on the wings taking out the hinges is not an option!"
Morne replies: "OK We send new big farings"
Now we are talking
Then I get this mail from John:
Can we send you four smaller fairings and four new hinges? They fit well here.
Now I get a little frustrated. What part of that "the hinges ARE GLUED IN PLACE" and "taking them out is NOT AN OPTION" don't the understand??
All I want is to have 4 BIG FAIRINGS and this whole problem goes away...
I sent this reply, hoping it will be OK now:
"John.
Please understand. The hinges are allready glued in place so I can't take them out.
So i need 4 LARGE fairings."
Seem to some language problems or something.
The hinges are probably different now from the ones I got.
Either way... The hinges are too big, or the fairings are too small. The best and quickest fix is to just install 4 LARGE fairings and everything will be OK.
Hoping it will work out now
Other Hawk owners: What is your experience with the hinges and fairings??
12-11-2010, 01:39 AM
#9
RE: Winter project - Skymaster Large BAE Hawk
Hello
I had the same problem but managed to cut the hinges down before gluing them. I think it was all in my build thread. I've learnt the hard way that the manuals can cause problems so I don't use them. I was going to produce my own manuals for all the kits I've built but I'm just too busy atm, plus I wasn't sure people would want to pay, anyway............I digress, the fairings are also handed which wasn't in the manual. I spent ages dremelibg the inside of the fairings gor a good fit. There's loads of glue in them, up to 6mm deep in places. I dremeled most of it for a perfect fit over the hinges. Might be worth looking at on the new ones. I milled new slots too as the original slots were in the wrong place/angle I managed in the end to get them in line with the airflow.
I had the same problem but managed to cut the hinges down before gluing them. I think it was all in my build thread. I've learnt the hard way that the manuals can cause problems so I don't use them. I was going to produce my own manuals for all the kits I've built but I'm just too busy atm, plus I wasn't sure people would want to pay, anyway............I digress, the fairings are also handed which wasn't in the manual. I spent ages dremelibg the inside of the fairings gor a good fit. There's loads of glue in them, up to 6mm deep in places. I dremeled most of it for a perfect fit over the hinges. Might be worth looking at on the new ones. I milled new slots too as the original slots were in the wrong place/angle I managed in the end to get them in line with the airflow.
12-11-2010, 02:52 AM
#10
Thread Starter
RE: Winter project - Skymaster Large BAE Hawk
Yes. My mistake for not checking it in the first place[:@]
But I took it for granted that they vere correct size since they have theese notces on each end that is resting on the wing surface making how deep they will go given. I guess I should not have.
Anyway. Looks like SM is going to send me 4 of the large fairings, so all will be OK
Did you put outer missile rails on your plane?
I ordered 4 underwing missiles for inner and outer positions but got 4 large ones (inner pylons) that are too long to fit on the outer posts.
I was thinking of fitting missiles or those barrel style rocket launchers to the outer post.
SM tell me that they don't make outer pylons and thought I had ordered the extra pylons for another plane...
But the will look into if they have any other pylons that the can be made to fit.
Thanks SM for handling theese issues[sm=thumbup.gif]
But I took it for granted that they vere correct size since they have theese notces on each end that is resting on the wing surface making how deep they will go given. I guess I should not have.
Anyway. Looks like SM is going to send me 4 of the large fairings, so all will be OK
Did you put outer missile rails on your plane?
I ordered 4 underwing missiles for inner and outer positions but got 4 large ones (inner pylons) that are too long to fit on the outer posts.
I was thinking of fitting missiles or those barrel style rocket launchers to the outer post.
SM tell me that they don't make outer pylons and thought I had ordered the extra pylons for another plane...
But the will look into if they have any other pylons that the can be made to fit.
Thanks SM for handling theese issues[sm=thumbup.gif]
12-11-2010, 08:35 AM
#11
RE: Winter project - Skymaster Large BAE Hawk
I wouldn't say it was your fault, it's frustrating to see the same issues over and over without them being addressed. Still it builds into a great model with some effort.
07-28-2011, 02:53 AM
#12
Thread Starter
RE: Winter project - Skymaster Large BAE Hawk
The build have been slow, but now it is as good as finished. Kind of forgot to update this thread also 
Some pics from the test start yesterday
Some pics from the test start yesterday
07-29-2011, 03:36 PM
#14
Thread Starter
RE: Winter project - Skymaster Large BAE Hawk
ooops, you just reminded me that i forgot to install the camera mount on the hawk, lol
Hopefully maiden tomorrow
Hopefully maiden tomorrow
07-30-2011, 03:29 PM
#16
Thread Starter
RE: Winter project - Skymaster Large BAE Hawk
Weight is about 17,5-18 kg dry. Did not save on anything...
Maidened it today. Everything went well and it was a pure joy. It felt like it was on rails and flew with authority. Will move the CG a bit further back. CG is at 210-220 mm now.
Looking forward to geting more stick time on in
Some pics of the install
Maidened it today. Everything went well and it was a pure joy. It felt like it was on rails and flew with authority. Will move the CG a bit further back. CG is at 210-220 mm now.
Looking forward to geting more stick time on in
Some pics of the install
07-30-2011, 03:50 PM
#19
RE: Winter project - Skymaster Large BAE Hawk
Nice...not used to seeing you guys from Norway flying off pavement....I always see the pictures off the frozen lake. [:@]
07-31-2011, 04:02 AM
#20
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RE: Winter project - Skymaster Large BAE Hawk
Congratulation !!! photos are amazing i really love this jet . Well done .
Any chance to see a video of you baby ?
nico
Any chance to see a video of you baby ?
nico
08-02-2011, 05:17 AM
#22
Thread Starter
RE: Winter project - Skymaster Large BAE Hawk
ORIGINAL: helicrazy06
Any chance to see a video?
Any chance to see a video?
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcBQ-_f8_lY[/youtube]
