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Downwind turn Myth

Old 01-30-2014, 03:36 AM
  #1326  
highhorse
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Originally Posted by pschulte
HaHA I blame AOA. a little too much and you can stall inverted at the top of a loop. or on short final. Increased drag from a abrupt turn will slow and airplane even in a no wind situation. I will keep the down wind turn myth in mind for when I dumbthumb a plane in. Maybe if I call it the downwind turn phenomenon I can confuse enough people so I don't have to admit it was my weak skills. The best part is if I do this enough I will start to believe it as a truth. Then I won't have to take responsibility for my actions.
Love it. Me too! Maybe I will even throw in some Coriolis Effect as a backup plan to explain having dorked a maneuver done in one direction but not another?
Old 01-30-2014, 03:52 AM
  #1327  
Frank Sopwith
 
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This thread has grown to 'Mythical' proportions . . .
Old 01-30-2014, 03:55 AM
  #1328  
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At some point I just have to laugh.

I am taking donations now (PayPal accepted) to NOT start a follow-on thread entitled "Torque Myth" wherein I attempt to explain that proppie motor torque is common catch-all misnomer and that torque causes a rolling moment only, whilst other factors are at play when your airplane yaws to the left....

Argh, never mind. I like RCU and don't want to melt their server down, so I'm gonna refrain from that one as a freebie :-)
Old 01-30-2014, 04:04 AM
  #1329  
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Lots of interesting posts on this long thread for sure! How about this though: Would you rather fly with the wind at your back or with the wind in your face at the flying field?

If it's in your face and you slow up your plane on base leg for an apparent VISUAL speed, you might get it close to stall. Wind at your back is much more forgiving in flying a slow base leg. Anyone agree?
Old 01-30-2014, 04:33 AM
  #1330  
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Originally Posted by thailazer
Lots of interesting posts on this long thread for sure! How about this though: Would you rather fly with the wind at your back or with the wind in your face at the flying field?

If it's in your face and you slow up your plane on base leg for an apparent VISUAL speed, you might get it close to stall. Wind at your back is much more forgiving in flying a slow base leg. Anyone agree?
Yes, I enjoy a cross with the wind at my back, but it's all about the plane in the air and not me on the ground. For me, the point is understanding airspeed in order to enjoy the landing in either crosswind. If you carry more speed over ground turning onto final, plan on flying a longer final approach, for example.
Old 01-30-2014, 07:23 AM
  #1331  
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Sorry to debunk the downwind turn myth and stalling.
You debunked the stalling myth? Oh Nooooooo!

Last edited by Sport_Pilot; 01-30-2014 at 07:27 AM.
Old 01-30-2014, 07:33 AM
  #1332  
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Originally Posted by thailazer
Lots of interesting posts on this long thread for sure! How about this though: Would you rather fly with the wind at your back or with the wind in your face at the flying field?

If it's in your face and you slow up your plane on base leg for an apparent VISUAL speed, you might get it close to stall. Wind at your back is much more forgiving in flying a slow base leg. Anyone agree?
If the wind is in my face, I won' see the plane behind my back!
Old 01-30-2014, 08:09 AM
  #1333  
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1300 + posts WOW. Even quoting Galileo. It gets better. Someone even bought in the veracity of Darwinian evolution.

Originally Posted by highhorse
At some point I just have to laugh.

I am taking donations now (PayPal accepted) to NOT start a follow-on thread entitled "Torque Myth" wherein I attempt to explain that proppie motor torque is common catch-all misnomer and that torque causes a rolling moment only, whilst other factors are at play when your airplane yaws to the left....

Argh, never mind. I like RCU and don't want to melt their server down, so I'm gonna refrain from that one as a freebie :-)
No go for it. Go for it.

It will be in competition with the thread I will start on the physics of dynamic soaring or why unpowered gliders can go faster than powered jets.

For those unfamiliar with DSing watch this.
http://youtu.be/aXS1jHK3XuE and yes he is flying on the downwind side of the ridge!

Ken may spank me for feeding the trolls.
Old 01-30-2014, 05:26 PM
  #1334  
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Originally Posted by j.duncker
1300 + posts WOW. Even quoting Galileo. It gets better. Someone even bought in the veracity of Darwinian evolution.



No go for it. Go for it.

It will be in competition with the thread I will start on the physics of dynamic soaring or why unpowered gliders can go faster than powered jets.

For those unfamiliar with DSing watch this.
http://youtu.be/aXS1jHK3XuE and yes he is flying on the downwind side of the ridge!

Ken may spank me for feeding the trolls.
After watching this vid I just spent the last 20 minutes reading up on the physics of DS.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVN-oF6tPLc http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_soaring

http://spectrum.ieee.org/aerospace/r...-the-albatross

http://douglasturner.tripod.com/id27.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlPI0AOj5MI Impressive stuff.

Last edited by Rob2160; 01-30-2014 at 06:06 PM.
Old 01-30-2014, 10:11 PM
  #1335  
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deleted

Last edited by A10FLYR; 01-30-2014 at 10:14 PM.
Old 01-31-2014, 06:24 AM
  #1336  
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I believe David Shulman (USA) who reached a speed of 293 Knots (542.64 km/h or 337.18 mph) holds the RC jet record.

The DS glider guys are close to 500 mph and may have cracked it by now.

Of course that speed may have been measured downwind.
Old 01-31-2014, 08:19 AM
  #1337  
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Try taking off a glider downwind during high winds and see how well it goes.
Old 01-31-2014, 11:01 AM
  #1338  
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Originally Posted by AndyAndrews
Try taking off a glider downwind during high winds and see how well it goes.
Again you are injecting a ground reference into the debate. Once airborne the glider doesn't care which way the wind is blowing. It has been explained many times why you take off into the wind. Again this debate revolves around aircraft flying in a steady state wind.

Until folks can stop confusing themselves with ground vs. airspeed (like the post I quoted) I'm afraid that we will keep beating our heads against the wall. <kickscan>

Last edited by Lownverted; 01-31-2014 at 11:40 AM.
Old 01-31-2014, 11:45 AM
  #1339  
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Seems to me that we are comparing two completely different types of equipment which has completely different flight characteristics, that operate in different environments and flight conditions, to one another. Switch the environment around and each plane would not perform as designed.

Never the less, dynamic soaring is pretty cool. Guys were talking about this at the hobby shop that I frequent. But I get a bigger kick out of watching birds do this by instinct.

Last edited by SushiHunter; 01-31-2014 at 01:33 PM.
Old 01-31-2014, 01:29 PM
  #1340  
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Originally Posted by AndyAndrews
Try taking off a glider downwind during high winds and see how well it goes.
arrg. wrong post.
Old 01-31-2014, 01:30 PM
  #1341  
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Originally Posted by SushiHunter
Seems to me that we are comparing two completely different types of equipment which has completely different flight characteristics, that operate in different environments and flight conditions, to one another.

Never the less, dynamic soaring is pretty cool. Guys were talking about this at the hobby shop that I frequent. But I get a bigger kick out of watching birds do this by instinct.
I never said anything about the ground lol.
Old 01-31-2014, 02:14 PM
  #1342  
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Originally Posted by AndyAndrews
I never said anything about the ground lol.
Sure you did. "taking off downwind" is meaningless unless you are talking about a mass of air moving relative to the ground you are taking off from. Go up in a hot air balloon on a day with a strong but steady wind, and launch your glider from that. Any direction will do.
Old 01-31-2014, 02:21 PM
  #1343  
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Originally Posted by Top_Gunn
Sure you did. "taking off downwind" is meaningless unless you are talking about a mass of air moving relative to the ground you are taking off from. Go up in a hot air balloon on a day with a strong but steady wind, and launch your glider from that. Any direction will do.
no I didn't. Gliders can be launched in the air being towed by an airplane.

Try this. Make a paper airplane. Hold it backwards into the windstream of a fan and release. See how well it flies.
Old 01-31-2014, 02:57 PM
  #1344  
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What does that have to do with this discussion?
Old 01-31-2014, 03:11 PM
  #1345  
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Originally Posted by AndyAndrews
no I didn't. Gliders can be launched in the air being towed by an airplane.
That's true. And when they are launched that way, nobody cares a bit whether the glider pilot releases the towrope while the glider and the towplane are flying upwind, downwind, or in a crosswind. So unless you were just being silly, your reference to "taking off downwind" must have assumed a takeoff from the ground. Are you just quibbling about words, or do you really think the original post is wrong?

Your paper airplane example shows that you need air moving over the wings (from front to back) to fly. Nobody disputes that. It has nothing to do with the forces acting on a plane that's flying.
Old 01-31-2014, 03:12 PM
  #1346  
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Originally Posted by AndyAndrews
no I didn't. Gliders can be launched in the air being towed by an airplane.

Try this. Make a paper airplane. Hold it backwards into the windstream of a fan and release. See how well it flies.
You just did it again!
Old 02-02-2014, 09:36 AM
  #1347  
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C'mon, one of you myther's must still have some fight left in ya!

Ok at the Super Bowl say there is a 5kt wind. What is the difference in airspeed upwind vs. down on an identical kickoff?
Old 02-02-2014, 10:29 AM
  #1348  
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10 kts. The slope soaring glider looks like he is staying on the positive side of the demarcation line
Old 02-02-2014, 10:54 AM
  #1349  
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What after 1348 now 1349 posts all the wimps giving UP com'on
now right after the Supper (TOILET) Bowl let's get right after it OK......... who's going to post #1340?
Old 02-02-2014, 11:08 AM
  #1350  
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Originally Posted by HoundDog
What after 1348 now 1349 posts all the wimps giving UP com'on
now right after the Supper (TOILET) Bowl let's get right after it OK......... who's going to post #1340?
How about 1350? 1340 was Andy.

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