highhorse

My Feedback: (2)

OMG

I started this thread 5 years ago, and I now officially give up. The downwind turn myth is real. The airplane doesn't like being turned downwind. Turning downwind is bad, makes wings lose lift. Why I never noticed this in my aerobatic or airline flying over the last 40 years is the real mystery here.

While I'm cleansing my soul: Sasquatch and the Loch Ness monster are real too. Elvis is still alive. There are little green men in a morgue at Area 51, and I am sure that Anastasia survived in spite of DNA evidence to the contrary.

BobbyMcGee

The only reason why Elvis is still alive is because he was abducted by aliens who heard he is the King. Luckily, he still has them convinced of this.

Carsten Groen

English is not my first language so I'm not always sure if people mean what they write, or if they are making some kind of joke. I hope that the last is the case in the description you just made ?!?

do335a

The biggest problem which I've found leads to problems such as belief in these and similar myths is that RC people have no clue about how an airplane actually flys and what actually happens in the air. They don't even realize this.

These guys later become "instructors". They have no clue about that either and have no idea how to teach.

Then they act as authorities and perpetuate these myths with the students. And on it goes.

Speaking as a pilot and former aircraft owner, I'd suggest that these myth believing experts and hypothesizers get into a real full sized small aircraft and have the pilot fly into the headwind and turn to downwind, while maintaining constant airspeed at about 500 ft. to 1,000 ft. AGL The observer need simply watch the ground the entire time. Then, just maybe, the difference between airspeed and groundspeed, which is causing the confusion, will become obvious.

JackD

My Feedback: (4)

This is so wrong in so many ways.... There is airspeed, period. There is no magic "on the wind".

Airspeed is airspeed irrelevant of groundspeed.

But... Like Frank Zappa said: " people will only agree with you if they already agree with you, you dont change peoples minds"

mick15

You need to get out more Jack, you're getting bogged down in the technlogicalaerodynamicintergallacicquarkorgasmicm isinterpritation, or something!jdownwind turn syndrome..yeah!!

Top_Gunn

My Feedback: (6)

Unfortunately, it's not just rc people, some full-scale pilots seem to fall for this, too. I guess I can see how people can get this wrong at first glance. They think of things like cars and bicycles, and how the wind blows on them differently when they turn into or away from it. It's hard, at first, to picture the airplane flying in, and with, a moving mass of air, unlike the car and bike. What seems bizarre, though, is people ignoring what experienced airline pilots, who fly in winds of 100 mph or so and would surely have noticed the supposed effect if it existed, have to say. They ignore the fact that, before we had good radio navigation techniques, it would have been extremely valuable for pilots to be able to determine wind direction without seeing the ground, yet none of them ever did it. And they ignore simple examples, like the rc plane flying around a balloon that's drifting with the wind, which should show anyone who thinks about them that turning into or away from the wind can't change your airspeed. Sad, really.

r 3

highhorse
The Loch Ness Monster is alive and well I have seen it many times when I was younger

highhorse

My Feedback: (2)

My psychic told me that this is absolutely true! Additionally, she says their saucer nearly crashed right after they snatched him. Something about their flux capacitor not having enough grunt to compensate for the downwind...

Doug Cronkhite

My Feedback: (34)

Sorry, but no. Wind speed has absolutely no bearing upon airspeed except as to how it affects ground speed. A J-3 Cub, a Boeing 747, Lockheed SR-71. and literally ALL other aircraft all fly using the exact same physics. Airspeed is the only thing that matters. Airspeed is not ground speed.

j.duncker

My Feedback: (2)

This thread is beyond moderation.

Elvis is back in the building following a masterclass in down wind turns from our beloved leader Kim during his alien abduction when he crashed due to wind gradient while circling a hot air balloon..

Post one thousand three hundred and eight six and counting.

chip_MG

My Feedback: (14)

I have had the downwind to upwind turn get me at least three times back when I was just learning to fly models. They all occurred when I was dead stick in moderate wind and made the mistake of trying to turn from a downwind glide to make the runway. I soon learn that the plane would stall as soon as I turned to the upwind leg. Lesson to learn, if your are dead stick don't try it, just land straight a head into the wind. Unless you have allot of altitude you can use to recover your airspeed. It doesn't relate to ground speed, which ya don't know anyway, It has to do with having enough airspeed to keep the plane flying as you make to upwind turn.

Lownverted

My Feedback: (4)

It has EVERYTHING to do with ground speed actually. The problem is your speed reference is to you. You are on the ground stationary trying to pilot a vehicle flying within a mass of moving air. The plane stalled because you got too slow, plain and simple. You think it's flying faster downwind, but it's an illusion. Hard for some to understand, but it's the truth.

chip_MG

My Feedback: (14)

Lownverted
Yeah if you what to be concerned with ground speed which can mislead you, that is where the error comes in. Letting the plane slow down too much is indeed the problem. As you are flying down wind in a glide you will if fact be carrying a greater ground speed than you would in a no wind condition glide. That is where the illusion can mislead you into thinking you going fast enough to make the upwind turn, that's when the stall happens. If you have engine you can power up most times and recover, but maybe not, it depends on how much wind there is, and your power available.

PacificNWSkyPilot

My Feedback: (19)

Semantics. Once you know what makes a plane fly in all conditions, all these arguments mean nothing, and no matter how many names are called and no matter how many arguments are used, it doesn't change a thing. You can make it happen on a flight simulator. It ain't rocket science, and common sense is all it takes to understand when it'll happen, and what it takes to keep it from happening. It's aircraft piloting 101, it's a basic situation any new pilot deals with.

BlueBus320

My Feedback: (57)

When you are in a plane flying by instruments, upwind/downwind makes no difference. When you are on the ground trying to fly a rectangular ground track,
1) you'll crab into the wind on the crosswind leg
2) it will require more than a 90 degree turn to transition to the downwind leg
3) over banking to complete your crosswind to downwind turn can cause a stall.
Agreed?
If so, then the turn to downwind didn't aerodynamically cause the stall (over banking to maintain ground track did), but the turn to downwind needs to be respected more than the turn to upwind "IF" trying to maintain a ground track.

RZielin

My Feedback: (1)

I must point out the biggest myth of all posted here that you guys totally ignored. Look Elvis is DEAD, dead, D --E--D DED!!. But a true fact about him that you may enjoy:
The hottie actress and dancer Rita Moreno (played Anita in West Side Story and is STILL HOT) used to date Marlon Brando. She had some reason to make him jealous, (don't know why, probably he was cheating on her) so she did it by dating Elvis. Now this is one hot woman, dating Elvis just to make Brando jealous. Anyways, she claims to this day that Elvis was lousy in bed.

TRUE FACT.

Sport_Pilot

You are kidding? On the wind? Explain that one!

Sport_Pilot

Only because you slowed the plane up when going downwind because it looked like it was going to fast.

mike31

My Feedback: (67)

A flux capacitor would help a bunch!

mort78

My Feedback: (1)

This is seriously the most amusing thread around. It's brilliant.
I love all the people out there quoting 'It's the truth' , 'It's fact'.... blah blah blah. Yet, they have absolutely no idea what they are talking about.

Here's a FACT.... just because you fly RC or a full sized aeroplane, doesn't mean you understand what you are on about.
Here's another FACT for all you people going on about Groundspeed being the issue. You can stall ANY aircraft with even a billion knots groundspeed. GS has zilch/nadda/zip to do with you stalling.

But seriously.... keep the awesome comments coming. Who needs TV

drac1

My Feedback: (4)

Yes it is funny.

Don't need TV. Just more popcorn

drac1

My Feedback: (4)

Flying into the wind: Ground speed + wind speed = Airspeed.

Flying with the wind: Ground speed - wind speed = Airspeed.

Sport_Pilot

You were speaking into a mirror right? A billion Knot's? Now you are breaking the rules of special realitivity. We cannot even agree on something dealing with simple Newtonian relativity so lets not go there.

sensei

Who gives a rats ***** anyway, more stick time and less keyboard time solves most piloting issues mythical or not...

Bob