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The New F86D Dog Sabre

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Old 07-02-2012, 05:32 AM
  #801
essyou35
 
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Default RE: The New F86D Dog Sabre

I get 4 minutes flight, then land. I have about 1 inch of fuel left in each tank. Maybe could push it to 5 but no room for go arounds.

You guys must fly like my grandma to get that much flight time.
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Old 07-02-2012, 06:07 AM
  #802
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Default RE: The New F86D Dog Sabre

Lol... or you have a turbine with "grandma"-technology

My VT80 burns around 250ml per minute at full throttle. Each tank is 1000ml total of 2000ml/2L.

So...if I fly WOT the entire flight, I get 8 minutes

At 1/2 throttle ?



Kim
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Old 07-02-2012, 06:32 AM
  #803
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Default RE: The New F86D Dog Sabre

Kim, thats exactly what the K80 is supposed to burn per min, 250 ml per min.

I must be running 3/4 throttle the whole flight, with some WOT in there. So 4 mins then land leaves me with a min or so to spare.

My next flight will be 4 min fly, then land. I will shut down asap on landing. I'll send a pic of what is left in the tanks. I do use a taxi tank.

I can tell you 6 minutes would require throttle management in the grandma style!

PS due to the geometry of the tanks I cannot get all the fuel out the bottom of them. So my tanks are .8L each or 1600ml total. So 6.4 mins to empty for me.

So I fell 4 mins then land leaves me with some room should I need to make some go arounds, which to date after 9 flights I have not needed because I fly off a real runway.\

PS again" 1/2 throttle = grandma on the dog.
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Old 07-02-2012, 06:49 AM
  #804
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Default RE: The New F86D Dog Sabre

Hmm.. I check the specs on the VT80 again...220grams per minute. That is around 190ml/min.

The K80 states 250grams/min or around 220ml/min. With these numbers I am a bit puzzled why you do not get more flight time than you do.

Maybe I am wrong believing the tanks are 1000ml each?
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Old 07-02-2012, 06:57 AM
  #805
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Default RE: The New F86D Dog Sabre

I thought 1L each sounded a bit big. To me it looks liek they are maybe .75L each, and if you account for the geometry you get about .55L each or so, giving us 1.10L total to drink.

So 4.4 mins at wot looks about right to me. I can tell you after 4 mins of mixed flying its getting low, maybe 1" or so of fuel left in the bottom, Very easy for clunks to start sucking air!

I also have my tanks in parallel, clunk to clunk, feeds the UAT, Should I try serial, vent to clunk to uat?
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Old 07-02-2012, 11:05 AM
  #806
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Default RE: The New F86D Dog Sabre

Hello,

The empty weight of my Sabre is 7870g or 17 lbs and 5 oz with the Wren Supersport an a cockpit.

My tanks are in parallel with T-fitting going to a hopper tank. Needed to add some weight to the clunks to get them on the bottom in normal and inverted flight. Having the 2 tanks in line will raise the current draw of the fuel pump.

The heavier planes need more power to fly. So they will use more fuel. I feel that my model has a good speed at 1/2 power (lets say stick in the middle).

I dont like to fly all the time at full power. On Meetings I to one or two fast fly by and then show the slow speed characteristic of the plane with a climb out at the end.

until next time

Flilek
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Old 07-02-2012, 11:08 AM
  #807
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Default RE: The New F86D Dog Sabre

Hmmm. Essyou, I always hook my tanks up in series. I am not sure what you mean by the geometri of the tanks, but my fuel system empties the first tank almost completely before starting to drain the from second tank. With "grandma" style flying, I could certainly achieve 5-6 min flight time, which has had me thinking of using the other tank for smoke oil

With smoke on and grandma flying style, this lady would definately become a GILF (sorry guys.... I just had to )
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Old 07-02-2012, 11:19 AM
  #808
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Default RE: The New F86D Dog Sabre

OH BTW. I have had issues with the Festo fittings on my K80. The other day I noticed there was some fuel running on the underside of the jet. I pulled the turbine and cut the tubes, and pushed them back in. The next time I want to start, the K80 nwould not get going. It was literally pouring fuel out the bottom.

At the field, I pulled it again and pushed the tubing in again, no difference than last time, but this time it did not leak. I swear at 1/2 throttle it felt more powerful. That day it was getting to dark due to the delay but it really felt faster and my wife thought so too.

So maybe I had a small leak that was causing me to push throttle more? I need to go post in the K80 forum.
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Old 07-02-2012, 11:46 AM
  #809
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Default RE: The New F86D Dog Sabre

Yes, fuel leak issues are serious matters! Good luck sorting out the problem!
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Old 07-02-2012, 11:51 AM
  #810
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Default RE: The New F86D Dog Sabre

Hello,

Ther are very nice tools to cut Festo tubes. With this tool, you never crush the tube and the end is square. Never get leaking. But pay attention. Chines copy of Festo tubes are slighty bigger and they distroy the Festo fittings when you want to get the tube out again.

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Old 07-02-2012, 02:02 PM
  #811
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Default RE: The New F86D Dog Sabre

If anyone is interest I have gear for sale.
Thanks,
Mike

http://www.rcuniverse.com/market/item.cfm?itemID=854377
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Old 07-02-2012, 05:53 PM
  #812
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Default RE: The New F86D Dog Sabre

Just flew mine the other day, flew great. 12 oz of epoxyed bb's in the nose and a Rabbt 100 in the rear end. Had to tune it down to 16 lbs. Here are some pics.
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Old 07-02-2012, 06:26 PM
  #813
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Default RE: The New F86D Dog Sabre

why on earth would you tune it down!!!!
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Old 07-02-2012, 06:38 PM
  #814
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Default RE: The New F86D Dog Sabre

This has me puzzled, why do the engine mount rails angle result in the thrust center-line so low at the aft fuse?
checking with plywood plate and cf rod
if I align the pipe to the turbine as it is , there will be a 2" gap above the pipe at the tail and will have to scallop 10" or 12" along the bottom of the fuse..
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Old 07-02-2012, 06:49 PM
  #815
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Default RE: The New F86D Dog Sabre

not sure, but it works. Mess with the thrust angle and you will need trim.
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Old 07-02-2012, 09:23 PM
  #816
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Default RE: The New F86D Dog Sabre

I am selling my NIB Dog Sabre if anybody is interested. It does come with the retracts. $575 shipped via Greyhound. Pm or email me if interested. Thanks Jon
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Old 07-02-2012, 09:25 PM
  #817
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Default RE: The New F86D Dog Sabre

Quote:
This has me puzzled, why do the engine mount rails angle result in the thrust center-line so low at the aft fuse?
checking with plywood plate and cf rod
if I align the pipe to the turbine as it is , there will be a 2" gap above the pipe at the tail and will have to scallop 10" or 12" along the bottom of the fuse..

I have their MB339 and my thrust angle was so bad I had to rip eveything out and start over. As matter of fact, the mounting rails were not parallel to eachother and the poorly glued in place. I was able to remove them in about 4 seconds. I have rebuilt this area and I would bet money you would have to destroy the fuse to egt them out now. I used a laser to align everything and get the thrust angle correct.

All I know is I will never buy a MB kit again, too much work to get them up to my standards....

Good luck with yours....
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Old 07-02-2012, 09:59 PM
  #818
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Default RE: The New F86D Dog Sabre

I love the dog but man it had me cussin putting it together!

9 flights on it seems to be holding up, but it does not seem to be very popular for some reason. I wonder why.
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Old 07-03-2012, 01:32 AM
  #819
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Default RE: The New F86D Dog Sabre


Quote:
ORIGINAL: jetbro

This has me puzzled, why do the engine mount rails angle result in the thrust center-line so low at the aft fuse?
checking with plywood plate and cf rod
if I align the pipe to the turbine as it is , there will be a 2'' gap above the pipe at the tail and will have to scallop 10'' or 12'' along the bottom of the fuse..

Sorry to say, but you need to have a sharp eye when "building" the Dog. As you obviously have that knowledge, no need to worry My Dog required lots of modification to be finished like I wanted. That

ment ripping some formers out and glue them back strait, or rebuilding turbine mounts and nose wheel mounts/formers...

But when you have delt with all the issues, this model is a blast to fly and operate, just don't take short cuts during assembly


I personally love my F86d



Kim
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Old 07-03-2012, 09:07 AM
  #820
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Default RE: The New F86D Dog Sabre

Kim how does the speed of your dog compare to your other jets? I've heard (never seen) the tornado is faster. I did see several falcon 120s flyh and they were slower than my dog.
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Old 07-04-2012, 12:41 AM
  #821
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Default RE: The New F86D Dog Sabre


Quote:
ORIGINAL: essyou35

Kim how does the speed of your dog compare to your other jets? I've heard (never seen) the tornado is faster. I did see several falcon 120s flyh and they were slower than my dog.
My dog has the drop tanks installed, which isn´t helping increasing the topspeed To be honest I would have to admit that the Dog is not very fast, but I will say it is fast enough to get the smile on my face! Lots of people ask "how fast is it?" My answer is mostly "too fast". Personally I am more interested in how well models fly, than how fast they go.

But to answer you Q based on the models I now own:

Elan/P80se is marginally faster than/same as the F86d
C-arf Mig-15/P80se is -//-
Habu32/P20sx is a tad faster
C-arf Eurosport/Behotec 180 Gold, never tried topspeed and never will

A had a Boomerang Sprint (sold it)/P80se, and I would say that model is comparable to my Dog regarding topspeed.
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Old 07-04-2012, 03:43 PM
  #822
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Default RE: The New F86D Dog Sabre

Guess what? If you go by the center of the circle cutout in the former between the turbine and the tanks...the datum is on the topside of the mounts(opposite teh hatch)
everything lines up nice this way without changing vertical engine thrust angle
no wonder so many pipes were low on other pics...
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Old 07-04-2012, 03:59 PM
  #823
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Default RE: The New F86D Dog Sabre

Looks like you are doing some great work there. I looked into doing what you did but being my first turbine I opted to use the status quo. I over analyzed mine and in the end it all works out of the box.

These dogs have small reynolds numbers so it is not going to matter if it is exactly on the datum or not, a few mm wont count. The only thing that will is the thrust angle and I got mine right on thank god. Get that wrong, which you can do with the dog,, and you'll have a trim issue that is speed dependent.


Make sure you plan carefully how you will get the wings off and on so you can ensure that will not become a huge chore. I use just steel flange bolts and a socket wrench.

Looking forward to another dog flyer!
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Old 07-04-2012, 04:19 PM
  #824
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Default RE: The New F86D Dog Sabre

I'm just happy I can mount the turbine and pipe without rebuilding the woodwork or butchering the tail of the dog...
I plan on using a single shc screw for each wing at this time ... and quick-connects on the air lines , molex connector for the two servos..
should make for fast and error free connections..
ps.. i just lay the turbine on the mount, i will have the glow plug between 10 and2 on final install.
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Old 07-05-2012, 10:57 AM
  #825
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Default RE: The New F86D Dog Sabre

shc shc screw?
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