John Taylor

My Feedback: (16)

Great work Dom. JT

MaJ. Woody

My Feedback: (28)

Thanks Guys! I am happy with how it turned out. Now I can finish my install....

rhklenke

My Feedback: (24)

Dom,

Are those pilots that you got from Anton? Did BVM order them for you?

Bob

MaJ. Woody

My Feedback: (28)

Hi Bob.
Yes and Yes. They cost $29.90 each. I was able to have them shipped with my Hawk. I would buy them since I could not find anything else that would fit. I think they look great in this Phantom.

rhklenke

My Feedback: (24)

Thanks for the info Dom. I'll order some tomorrow when I let Patty know that the F-4 got here OK.

We unpacked it today. It was packed *extremely* well by Skymaster! Here's a couple of pictures off Louie's phone. Now its back into the box until a few other projects are completed...

Bob

MaJ. Woody

My Feedback: (28)

Looks great Bob! Both my Skymaster jets were packed better than any other jets I have purchased from any manufacturer. Skymaster is doing a fantastic job ensuring our jets arrive safely.
It is much appreciated by customers that's for sure. I have been on the other end of the packing scenario with other manufacturers. Nothing is more disappointing than waiting a long, long time for an airplane only to have it damaged in shipping.

MaJ. Woody

My Feedback: (28)

Well I encountered another problem with my F-4 tonight. While checking the fit of the wing spars, I realized that the rear spar is 1/8" too short. The spar that was included in my kit measures 22 1/4" long. It needs to be 22 3/8" long in order to engage the outer plywood rib in each wing panel. The spars slide through a fiberglass tube that runs from the wings plywood root rib out to a plywood rib in each wing panel. If the spar is too short like the one they sent me, then one wing panel (or both if the spar floats between the two) will be solely relying on the fiberglass tube to support the flight loads. this is a wing failure waiting to happen. The spar must engage all plywood ribs in order to do its job. The fiberglass tube is merely a guide tube. I just sent an e-mail to Patty at BVM requesting a replacement spar. Perhaps they can send it to me when they send the replacement canopy Frame and Canopy for my Hawk (remember those arrived with a crack in them).

MaJ. Woody

My Feedback: (28)

It is a good thing I am the type of modeler who measures and checks this sort of thing.

rhklenke

My Feedback: (24)

Dom,

Mine is packed away, but is the wing tube hollow? If so, you could extend it the 1/8" with a tube that fits inside the original tube and some aeropoxy to build it up. With it being only 1/8" short, the amount of force you can generate is not that high. You'd probably be OK with the length it is now and just making sure its as close to each rib on either side (1/16" ?)

Bob

MaJ. Woody

My Feedback: (28)

Hi Bob.
Your solution is a good one but unfortunately the carbon spars are solid. I thought about drilling it and installing a plug as Rich suggested but don't feel good about that. I want a new spar the length it should have been from the factory. I will keep you posted to BVM and Skymasters response to my request for a new spar.

rhklenke

My Feedback: (24)

Dom,

Yea, I'd be afraid that when drilling it, you'd introduce cracks that would weaken it further in - which would be really bad. The fibers run parallel to the spar, so its easy for a crack to run down the fibers once it starts...

Bob

mdeseve

My Feedback: (1)

Dom, my spar is only 21 inch, way too short, can't beleive they make this mistake. I hope they send us the right spar.

Mike

mdeseve

My Feedback: (1)

I just send a email to John at skymaster, let see what he have to say. I could have lost my plane for that mistake.

Mike

RCISFUN

My Feedback: (44)

Hey Dom,
Anton from Skymaster should be paying you to be his chief QA inspector!

MaJ. Woody

My Feedback: (28)

My Front spar is 22 1/2" long. It engages both outer ribs. The problem is with the rear spar that is only 22 1/4" long and needs to be 22 3/8" long to fully engage both outer ribs. I would not take these measurements as gospel. I believe that there will some variance between models if ribs are not glued in exactly the same spot from model to model. What I did was to verify that my spars would fully engage the outer ribs of each wing (do this on the bench. what your checking here is that there is not any glue or other obstruction preventing the spar form going all the way into that outer rib) then put one wing on the model. Next I fully engaged the ribs of that wing with the spars. next I measured what was left sticking out the other side of the fuse. This is what you have left to engage the outer rib in that wing when you install it. What you need to do now is fully engage that opposite wing with a spar (removed from the model) and see measure that length. Next compare that to what you had left sticking out of the fuse from the earlier step. If that measurement is not the same, you will not be fully engaging both outer ribs. If it is too long, there will be a gap between the wing roots and the fuse. If it is too long, sand carefully and sneak up on that slowly. I hope this makes sense.

MaJ. Woody

My Feedback: (28)

To check the C.G. I used Rich Millers method of hanging the model. First make a couple plywood root ribs. Next locate the C.G. range and drill holes at the desired locations. I will balance mine at 250mm. Next make some hooks to hang the model from. A bit a rope and your ready to lift the model off the bench. With the 2 RX batteries and 1 ECU battery in the nose, I think I am going to be close. We will see after I get all the equipment in place.

MaJ. Woody

My Feedback: (28)

Next I made a template out of cardboard for my main equipment tray. Now that it fits just right I will cut the tray out of 1/8" Aircraft Plywood. You can see all the room I picked up with my cockpit mod. The canopy and cockpit go in place without and conflict with the items on the board. The nose wheel clears the board by 1/4" so no problem there either. I am experimenting with where to put things. The air tanks are my real concern. I can position them under the board on either side of the nose wheel, but then I will not be able to have my servos for the valves sit in the tray. I can always lay the servos on their sides and use L brackets however. This part usually takes me about 7 hours of just thinking and moving things around. Then once I have it all figured out, I can install the equipment. I will probably use the cardboard template for planning while the real board gets painted and is drying.

Bob_B

My Feedback: (11)

Good catch on the Spar problem Dom. Your only solution is to move to China and run the shops that build these models!
Or you can build and paint your own jets! I wonder if Skymaster would do kits like Jet Legend offers?

mdeseve

My Feedback: (1)

Dom , i bought two smaller air tank and i fit them in the nose. I need a 22 3/4 inch rear spar to reach both ply former.

ianober

My Feedback: (12)

I am interested in how big a problem this spar issue really is. Sounds like maybe all the spars are short out there could be short according to you but is this really a problem? I have not heard of one F-4 having a wing failure let alone one that could be traced back to it being too short. I watched my buddy fly his phantom like he stole it and never have one issue, I mean he really put it through the ringer. Personally I think this is a non issue but to each his own. Also, how do we know what the structure is like for the rear spar in the wing? I am sure you just squeezed the skin and felt for ribs but I don't think this is highly conclusive. Does anyone have an old wing that is no more and could be opened to take a peek? Im not trying to stir anything up just trying to think this thing through logically.

I actually have an old Skymaster F-4 rear spar in my garage, I will measure it tonight when I get home.

MaJ. Woody

My Feedback: (28)

Here is my experience with a spar being too short.
My FB L-39 used an aluminum tube as a spar. Like this F-4, the aluminum tube ran through a fiberglass tube and into the plywood ribs at the outer wing. I had over 170 flights on that L-39. One day at Octurbofest I took off and could not understand why my trims were off. The model was handling weird and not tracking true. Definitely not how that L-39 always preformed. I decided to land immediately. When I landed, I examined the model and noticed that one wing panel was flopping up and down. As it turns out, the aluminum spar was 3/4" too short and did not engage both outer wing ribs. what happened as a result was that the fiberglass tube was absorbing all the flight loads. It finally gave way (it broke loose from the outer plywood rib) and there was nothing supporting that aluminum spar past the wing root. That was my lesson on this subject and I will now always check for proper lengths of spars and full engagement into the outer wing panels.

MaJ. Woody

My Feedback: (28)

I heard back from Patty at BVM. She sent Skymaster an e-mail with my request for a new spar. I can't imagine they would deny this request. I will keep you posted.

rhklenke

My Feedback: (24)

Was your's the smaller one? I was under the impression that there were not very many of these little ones flying - Mike's is the only one I've heard about.

Bob

MaJ. Woody

My Feedback: (28)

I Cant believe I am saying this, but size does not matter I am pretty sure however that the large F-4 uses the same wing mounting / spar arrangement. I tried to post a diagram of the issue but it did not work. I asked Rich for some help with it. maybe he will post it then you can see how the load is not properly distributed unless the spar engages that outer rib. believe me I almost lost an airplane because of this issue.

MaJ. Woody

My Feedback: (28)

I have the 3/32" plywood equipment tray cut and installed. I am now in the process of painting it. Photos to follow.