Chris Smith

My Feedback: (2)

From the WJM Thread:

At Jets over Kentucky this year, some "Jethro" walking thru the flightline area with his family kicked the nose off of Chuck Storrie's Hawk...the one he was going to enter in the WJM. The guy said "Uh...sorry".

That is why spectators should be kept away. I have had people walk into my tent and start taking my Lightning and Tucano apart "to see what was inside". Ever had some stupid parent let their little brat run up to your plane and have him sit on it so they can take a picture? I have. Ever had some little brat run up to your jet and then grab a stab and start swinging it up and down until it jams? I have ETC ETC ETC...

People are idiots, most spectators don't have a clue as to how fragile these things are and they should be kept away...period. This is not a 1/12 scale foamie combat meet...it's the WJM...with the nicest jets on the planet in attendance. They need to be protected.

Beave

I'm going to have to agree with Boli on this one. Sorry folks, sounds harsh but this is the society we live in. People are either not aware or plain selfish. These are after-all just "toys" so naturally fair game for kids or adult kids. Disciplining or controlling child behavior seems passé' to a lot of folks.

There needs to be much less access to the models at jet events. Most certainly WJM and Top-Gun.
It’s a matter of spectator safety and the preservation of a paying pilot's efforts and financial commitment. All are jeopardized with uncontrolled access. Even controlled access has risk greater than the potential pay-off at an event like WJM.

How bad do we feel after the storm damaged the South-African team’s airplanes? Could have just as easily been a person tripping or an innocent child. How bad and helpless would that spectator feel after an accident?

Chris Smith

My Feedback: (2)

So with that as posted above, let's continue this important discussion about spectator access. We'll do it here rather than in the WJM thread.

I hope CDs are paying attention. That said, over-all CDs do well.

Regarding the WJM, I was quite surprised at the lengths the WJM staff went to accommodating spectators, way beyond the call IMHO. As a matter of fact, the access given to the contestant aircraft tent probably had little payoff for the risk they took even with guided tours. It would only take one well meaning person tripping and falling on a jet. No one wins, and it should be the same at Top-Gun.

My vote would be absolutely no access. It is not fair to the participants to take that risk purely for PR or hospitality reasons.

As for Jet meets. If a guy is interested in jets, don't show up there either and expect unlimited access! The trick is to make contact with local jet flyers, or drive until you find them, and then accompany them as a pit helper. That's the way to learn and you have folks helping to keep you away from the hazards. We need a lot less non-pilot/crew access in pilot tents. Too often space is tight, and accidents will happen.

Families are nice. I love mine too. Your immediate family is usually not the issue. Your spouse and kids generally get it. Costs, fragile jets, etc, etc. But too often the In-laws and cousins park in the tents, chairs, coolers, blankets and all. That may seem like open space, but what about the jet pilots who haven't arrived yet? Even if the pilots are all there, how does he safely move the jets or conduct maintenance?

And let’s be honest, are they really interested in watching you and your jets?[8D][:-]

From a security point of view, I've had to put-off flying in order to watch mine or a friend’s jet left back in the tent due to all of the non-pilot traffic. We don't know who these people are. Do we want our air pump, tool kit, or BVM hat lifted?

Should the parking fee entitle one to “anything goes� just because they pay? Granted, most often spectators don't get out in the start-up areas, but it's too late for the pilot who's nose cone or pitot tube were knocked off in the tent/ramp areas.

Ron Stahl

My Feedback: (12)

I have to agree with the above post. For years I have never had a problem at any field or event but lately that has changed. At the First in Flight event this year we returned from the flight area only to find an entire family (5-6 people) of spectators sittiing in our chairs under our canopies, I aksed them if they were family members of the guys with me that we were expecting to visit us and surprize they were not. They stated they were getting hot and tired and thought that no one would mind them sitting in the chairs even though they were surrounded by expensive planes and equipment that did not belong to them. Thank godness that nothing got damaged or was missing once we got them to leave. It however is not limited to events at the local field over the weekend while I was flying a newbie moved my second plane so he could get a closer pit space to the parking lot. I'm all for taking the time to promote the hobby and all I ask is respect what is mine and leave your hands off my stuff.

RCKen

My Feedback: (9)

Here's my addition to the subject. Many people know that I cover events and spend a lot of time on the flightline. I used to have a small crate that I would take up to the flightline that would contain my lunch, sunscreen, water, a couple of extra lenses for my cameras, and anything else I needed to have with me on the flightline so I wouldn't have to walk back to my car. I've never had a problem with a pilot, spotter, crew, or any other media messing with it.

invertmast

My Feedback: (23)

Unfortunatley i havent been able to attend as many events as i would of liked the past few years, but the ones i have been to have had some out of control public control. I have learned to trust no one you dont know over the years, which has helped me catch a few spectators rummaging through tool boxes, radio cases and even my own vehicle at one event. When they heard my voice asking what they were doing they never had a good answer and were lucky i didnt call the cops. Unfortunately this has caused me to limit the amount of flying i would like to do bc i am always having to babysit my stuff from those stray spectators floating through areas that should be restricted to pilots/crew.

dasintex

My Feedback: (10)

I know exactly what you mean as mentioned in the first post, our Club had a Static Display at a full size airshow, and at one point I just happen to turn around at the right time and thank god I did, because I saw a child was within seconds of trying to sit on my Giant Scale P-47; we had barrier ropes and it didn't matter, the worse part was the father was just watching, totally oblivious to the seriousness of what was about to happen; I wonder if he would let his kid try and sit on a Lion at the zoo for a photo op.

Two sides to the argument about spectators; on one hand you are correct, spectator access needs to be controlled, not only at jet events but any events.

However, on the other hand, with AMA membership and interest on the decline with the exception of RTF Park Electric Foamies; a great opportunity exists to get the public interested in our sport; I'm not promoting free access to the pit area by spectators, but I think more events should feature a look and see session where all the participants put their aircraft on the runway with the Pilots close at hand and allow the public access to the runway to tour the runway lineup of the planes and talk and interact with the pilots, they could even have a rope barrier or something, club officials could control access to the runway during this time, and control access to the pits a little better.

Another observation, at many events that I have attended as both a participant and as a spectator, very seldom does the Event organizers or Host Club make any arrangements for spectators, they may have a bleacher, some benches or picnic tables set up, whereas the Pilots have shelter and tents, we have all been out there during these events in the broiling summer heat and this summer has been extremely hot; the pit area is a natural attraction just to get out of the heat, most events charge spectator admission, maybe this could be used to erect some spectator shelter or something, just a thought, it may keep them out of the pits a little bit.

Another thing, the pilots as a group should ask for better spectator control if it seems like the access is out of control; approach the CD or Club officials with your concerns, after-all, they want their event to be successful without mishap and they certainly want you to come back.

My 2 Cents worth.

rcguy!

My Feedback: (69)

Lets see....... Host clubs usually charge a "parking" fee to these spectators. Do ya think they'll do anything to generate negative feedback on the "parking" fee? Most clubs generate income from the Jet rally.......Don't expect it to change much, OR expect a considerable higher entry fee to fly....

"Follow the money"

Dave

tucson

My Feedback: (1)

They do the same thing with full sized airplanes also. During the anual inspection of a King Air I was flying, I happened to come out on the weekend to check and make sure it was buttoned up. Walked in the hanger to find a 3-4 year old child running up and down on the wing. I told the Father to get his kid down right now. Then I asked him which was his car out front. He asked me why so I told him I was going to go out and jump on his hood. He left in a hurry.

Its amazing how out of tune the average person is whether it be models or full size airplanes.

Stan

gawlevi

My Feedback: (19)

I was at JWM on Sat 7-30 and was able to fly in the open flying with my bobcat. at most events I go to I don't dare walk away from my aircraft unless I have someone I know around to watch it for me. I have a decent amount of money wrapped up in this jet( no where near what the participants of JWM have in theirs) but still couldn't even think of how I would react if somebody damaged my jet while it was just sitting under my tent . While at JWM I was completely comfortable leaving my jet unattended for a while knowing that the general public could not get to it and am very thankful for that. I was at Kentucky jets when the nose of the hawk was "kicked off" and it was just sickening to see what had happened and then to hear that the person that did it just said "sorry" and walked off.
So after rambling on I absolutely agree about keeping people away from the aircraft but a good idea has been presented- "lining up aircraft on the runway at lunchtime and allow the public closer access but with the owner of the craft and the volunteers of the event right there to help maintain some order to help prevent anything from happening".

tp777fo

My Feedback: (28)

Didnt they make a movie about these goofs a few years ago....I see stupid people...and there's lots of them. A lot of people dont care about anyone's property. They let their kids sit on our models, jump on our wings and on and on. "Look at little Jimmy, ain't he cute?" I dont set my jets out at the noon walk through any more. If you dont like this attitude then tough *****. It's my hard earned money and time invested in these models and I could care less if Jethro Jr. or Jethrene gets to see them up close and ask how much did it cost. They can see just fine from behind the fence.

dasintex

My Feedback: (10)

I disagree, or I don't understand your point; Spectators come out primarily, I would think to watch the Jets Fly, they are not surprised and expect they have to pay something; what they probably didn't expect was to be able to walk freely through the pits; if you controlled access, I don't believe they would stop attending, they may be a little disappointed that they couldn't walk through the Pits like they did the last time, but that's when you substitute free Pitt access with a Runway Lineup of the planes for the spectators to tour in a controlled environment with the pilots close at hand; it takes an hour of flying out of the day, but may be well worth it.

Another 2 cents worth, man this is costing me money!

ddlstang

My Feedback: (2)

Stan, you should have asked for his insurance so he could pay for the structural integrity inspection that was needed now - lol.

I think all kids in public should have a leash on them.

Ron S

My Feedback: (2)

I still support noontime lineups of the models - gives the spectators a chance to see the models closeup, and talk to the builders. I learned my lesson to keep the nose booms off... It might look cool for the photographer, but someone will inevitably back into it. They did... [:@]

I also remember a youngster walking thru the pit areas at one jet fly - underneath a tent was someone's power hatch to a BVM Maverick. The kid steps on the darned thing. When the parent went to grab the kid afterward, the pilot pointed out what damage was done. The parent's attitude, was "geez, it's just a toy!..." Most spectators just do not realize the amount of time and effort put into the models. [] For a scale model, it would most likely be even worse.

smitty1001

My Feedback: (29)

It has been nice to see the lineup "going away" over the last few years. Cuts into flying time and wings/stabs getting tripped over anyways

HA! Ron and I posted at the same time! With two vastly different opinions on the lineup!

dasintex

My Feedback: (10)

Then don't attend any events, just stay home and fly your jet by yourself at your home field or private airstrip, after all that's what you prefer; when you enter an event, and Jet events by far attract more spectators than any other RC event, then you have to expect to have spectators bugging you; in fairness, you are correct, spectators can be a pain in the butt, but Clubs hold these events to be successful and generate some revenue and Pilot entrance fees alone don't completely fill the coffers of these clubs, they rely on the spectators, and so does our sport.

Many of our Clubs use Public Lands such as Municipal Parks, Corp of Engineers, or other Public Recreation Land; and are obligated to be open to the Public; and disallowing spectators would be wrong, they just need their access controlled; so if you can't give up an hour and tell some eager kid about your plane and our sport than shame on you, like I said you can always stay home.

smaze17

My Feedback: (60)

Excellent posts by all. The jet rallies we have down at the Sepulveda Basin are really tricky when it comes to crowd control due to the fact that it is a public park. The guys do a great job but the Basin has a real problem with folks walking around the pits. One year I was there with a BVM F-86. I was coming back from spotting for someone and this 10-year old was picking up my plane and running over to his Dad to show him!! I politely asked him what he was doing and he had the nerve to say to me "what's the big deal, it's just a toy"!! Needless to say there was almost a full on brawl so I'm certainly for more crowd control

S

ddlstang

My Feedback: (2)

I do believe the AMA has certain guidelines in place for events and spectator control. The main thing is overall liability, if a spectator gets injured and they are in the "wrong" place then the AMA insurance will probably deny responsiblity.

That was the only complaint that I had about Kentucky jets was the amount of people just standing around in the run-up area and then when you trying to get your plane from the flightline to the tents.

Ask B-1 Bob about people around his plane when he was trying to put out a wet start - could'nt get to his own plan with an extinguisher because of all the jack-holes standing by it.

FenderBean

A simple rope line is all that is needed with signs, you can only limit a public event so much. I agree you cant fix stupid but there were waay more jets damaged from landings. You just have to police your own stuff is all, most people are respectful but there will all ways be some problem no matter how much you limit.

Was the jet that got kicked damaged?

TSHARK203

My Feedback: (206)

I could not agree more.

dasintex

My Feedback: (10)

If you do away with the Runway Lineup like some events have been doing then you may and can expect more roaming through the Pits; and if you control Pit access and eliminate Runway Lineups then you may decrease on spectator attendance, remember what I said in my previous post, most clubs use public land and are obligated to be open to the public, when we block public access, the same public can complain about our existence and use of public land and the next thing you know the local authorities are eyeing your area for a future biking or walking trail.

I don't know how everyone got interested in our sport, I got interested when I went to an RC Event and a Club member told me all about the sport and showed me his plane, RC flying, how much it cost, etc, and invited me out for a Buddy Box Flight during a training night, I was hooked and that was over 10 years ago.

So if we can't take an hour away from flying, show off our planes, answer the same questions over and over again, then we may not get that next spectator to change from a spectator to a pilot, and that would be a loss; just control access, its not the spectators fault, its the responsibility of the Event organizers and Club Hosts; not only are they obligated to be open to the public, but to follow basic AMA Safety guidelines as well concerning spectators; and out of respect for the Pilots and their planes.

FenderBean

Letting the public look and ask questions is a good thing, it helps promote the hobby and can even inspire kids to do great things.

smitty1001

My Feedback: (29)

I really honestly don't care about the lineup, just sayin' when your stuff is out there on the flight line it feels a little more vulnerable than in the pits where you can manage barricades, etc. My opinions (while not strong) against the lineup are more about logistics.

Believe me, as far as getting kids interested, inspired, promoting the hobby etc. I understand and act upon the value.

I just wish that when I was 9-16 some guy would've let me fly his turbine on a buddy box!

http://www.facebook.com/pages/NRMS-M...51523754917800

smitty1001

My Feedback: (29)

Probably a little more justified to dork up your own stuff while flying it than some stranger doin' it for you?

FILE IFR

Ditto

I'd rather it be me to boof my planes than a pit-wandering, rope-crossing, seemingly care-free spectator.

rcjetsaok

My Feedback: (7)

I shot a man in Reno, just to watch him die.......[X(]



D