Why has buying a jet in the classified become so much of a PITA??
09-12-2011, 11:53 AM
#1
Why has buying a jet in the classified become so much of a PITA??
I am about to rant, so if you have a problem with ranting...turn away.
Earlier this year there was a plane that caught my eye, it was advertised on RCU, I contacted the seller and we could not come to terms on the price, which I thought was a little too high for what was included. No harm, I went on my merry way. A month or so later, it resurfaces, this time for the price I originally offered for the plane, which I thought was reasonable, so I contact the seller and we make an agreement.
The offer, which I placed in writing, stated that I would pay the asking price if the person would arrange to meet me with aircraft about 1.5 hours from his home. I gave him a 10 day window, and he agreed readily. It would be a time about three weeks from the purchase toward the end of July / first of August. Sometime around July 7, I send him the total amount of the money, $3400, and he calls me confirming that he will meet me in Dayton OH during the WJM. We speak again right before that time to verify, and it is still a "Go". So, I pull my empty 14 foot trailer all the way up to Dayton, a little over 500 miles and wait all week for him to call me. He never does. I call him about a week into the meet and he says he probably will get there on Sunday, that his wife does not want him to leave town that day (Friday or Saturday). Now I start to worry. On Sunday, I get a message from him that says he cannot make it, that he has been called into work. I offer to drive another 1-2 hours over to his place to get the plane but he says he wants to be there and he won't be home till Monday. I contact him on Monday and tell him I have to leave on Tuesday (I had been there since the previous Sunday (9 days), and offer at that time to just come by there on my way home, adding 4 hours to another 11 hour trip. he does not answer me. Later on Tuesday I get a messgae from him, and I just ask for him to refund my money. He doesn't have it, so he will make arrangements to have it delivered to me for my trouble. After a week or two of this (second week of August) he promises me that he has someone to bring it to Memphis on September 3 (Labor Day weekend), so I make plans to be there, and even cancel a family trip. On Thursday he tells me he does not know if the guy will make it or not, and then later on confirms that it is cancelled. By this time, I guess he is sensing my frustration and agrees to refund my money (nice to be able to hold someone's money for two months or more and not have to pay any interest on it). In the meantime I find out from someone here locally that they will be in the same town as the seller and could bring the plane home to me. Since I had not gotten the money by this time, I contact him and says "No, I have decided to just keep it". I even get a message from him after I express my frustration telling me he should have told me to "pound sand", and that I knew it was pickup only. What? The deal was in writing and he agreed to it, then he wants to lay the blame on me.
Well to make a long story short. I got my money back after a little over two months. I jumped thru hoops including pulling an empty trailer over 1000 miles to complete a deal which he agreed to. I wanted the plane but am now satisfied to just get back the initial investment, and at this point have not left any feedback since I have gotten my money back, but I should to keep someone else from getting screwed. I have found more and more that making a deal and people following thru with it on the classified ads is just gotten crazy. What happened to being concerned with someone's reputation? honor? Integrity?
I have jumped thru hoops to delievr things to people when I commit to something. I have actually taken a loss on something to follow thru with a committment. Call me old fashioned but a man is only as good as his word. This person is a well known flier, who works or has worked for a major supplier and is well known to the modeling community, so I would have thought better of their actions.
Earlier this year there was a plane that caught my eye, it was advertised on RCU, I contacted the seller and we could not come to terms on the price, which I thought was a little too high for what was included. No harm, I went on my merry way. A month or so later, it resurfaces, this time for the price I originally offered for the plane, which I thought was reasonable, so I contact the seller and we make an agreement.
The offer, which I placed in writing, stated that I would pay the asking price if the person would arrange to meet me with aircraft about 1.5 hours from his home. I gave him a 10 day window, and he agreed readily. It would be a time about three weeks from the purchase toward the end of July / first of August. Sometime around July 7, I send him the total amount of the money, $3400, and he calls me confirming that he will meet me in Dayton OH during the WJM. We speak again right before that time to verify, and it is still a "Go". So, I pull my empty 14 foot trailer all the way up to Dayton, a little over 500 miles and wait all week for him to call me. He never does. I call him about a week into the meet and he says he probably will get there on Sunday, that his wife does not want him to leave town that day (Friday or Saturday). Now I start to worry. On Sunday, I get a message from him that says he cannot make it, that he has been called into work. I offer to drive another 1-2 hours over to his place to get the plane but he says he wants to be there and he won't be home till Monday. I contact him on Monday and tell him I have to leave on Tuesday (I had been there since the previous Sunday (9 days), and offer at that time to just come by there on my way home, adding 4 hours to another 11 hour trip. he does not answer me. Later on Tuesday I get a messgae from him, and I just ask for him to refund my money. He doesn't have it, so he will make arrangements to have it delivered to me for my trouble. After a week or two of this (second week of August) he promises me that he has someone to bring it to Memphis on September 3 (Labor Day weekend), so I make plans to be there, and even cancel a family trip. On Thursday he tells me he does not know if the guy will make it or not, and then later on confirms that it is cancelled. By this time, I guess he is sensing my frustration and agrees to refund my money (nice to be able to hold someone's money for two months or more and not have to pay any interest on it). In the meantime I find out from someone here locally that they will be in the same town as the seller and could bring the plane home to me. Since I had not gotten the money by this time, I contact him and says "No, I have decided to just keep it". I even get a message from him after I express my frustration telling me he should have told me to "pound sand", and that I knew it was pickup only. What? The deal was in writing and he agreed to it, then he wants to lay the blame on me.
Well to make a long story short. I got my money back after a little over two months. I jumped thru hoops including pulling an empty trailer over 1000 miles to complete a deal which he agreed to. I wanted the plane but am now satisfied to just get back the initial investment, and at this point have not left any feedback since I have gotten my money back, but I should to keep someone else from getting screwed. I have found more and more that making a deal and people following thru with it on the classified ads is just gotten crazy. What happened to being concerned with someone's reputation? honor? Integrity?
I have jumped thru hoops to delievr things to people when I commit to something. I have actually taken a loss on something to follow thru with a committment. Call me old fashioned but a man is only as good as his word. This person is a well known flier, who works or has worked for a major supplier and is well known to the modeling community, so I would have thought better of their actions.
09-12-2011, 12:18 PM
#2
RE: Why has buying a jet in the classified become so much of a PITA??
For me, reading the whole "rant" or story, I stopped at the part where you said you sent the full amount ($3400) to the seller BEFORE you went to meet the guy ? 
I'm sorry but that bitjust seems crazy. I've bought many second handitems inthepast- 2cars,model aircraft & helicopters,bits for my models, golf clubs etc..........not once have I sent someoneALLof the money before viewing the item. I do this for a few reasons....
1)The seller isusually a total stranger - they might seem nice on the phone, but I don't trust people I don't reallyknow
2)It leaves no room for "haggling" the price if you turn up to see the model, and its not in good condition like you first thought - he's already got all his money at that point.
It does annoy me, reading what this guy has done to you. Getting messed around is really really annoying. Some people are just a**eholes
Lets face it, if the guy was really desperate to sell the model, if you gave him $100 beforehand as a "deposit" - he would turn up to meet you.
Stuart
I'm sorry but that bitjust seems crazy. I've bought many second handitems inthepast- 2cars,model aircraft & helicopters,bits for my models, golf clubs etc..........not once have I sent someoneALLof the money before viewing the item. I do this for a few reasons....
1)The seller isusually a total stranger - they might seem nice on the phone, but I don't trust people I don't reallyknow
2)It leaves no room for "haggling" the price if you turn up to see the model, and its not in good condition like you first thought - he's already got all his money at that point.
It does annoy me, reading what this guy has done to you. Getting messed around is really really annoying. Some people are just a**eholes
Lets face it, if the guy was really desperate to sell the model, if you gave him $100 beforehand as a "deposit" - he would turn up to meet you.
Stuart
09-12-2011, 12:23 PM
#3
RE: Why has buying a jet in the classified become so much of a PITA??
The total amount was sent up front for a couple of reasons. The first being it was PayPal and I knew I could file a claim with it. The second was the guy had a reputation, I knew he was fairly popular in the hobby industry, and his feedback was OK. I originally offered to pay when we met to pick it up, but he was adamant that he had to have the money ASAP. In 27 years in this hobby, you think I would have learned but that is about the biggest burn I have taken.
You are right however to point out my mistakes.
You are right however to point out my mistakes.
09-12-2011, 12:32 PM
#4
RE: Why has buying a jet in the classified become so much of a PITA??
I guess Paypal is a wise move in these situations because, as you said, you can file a claim with them.
People like this should be named and shamed ! To prevent other modellers from suffering the same problems !
Just seems a bit weird that he wanted allthe money up front
Hope myinitial replydidn't offend you, after posting it, and reading it again I think I was a bit harsh
All the best
Stuart
People like this should be named and shamed ! To prevent other modellers from suffering the same problems !
Just seems a bit weird that he wanted allthe money up front
Hope myinitial replydidn't offend you, after posting it, and reading it again I think I was a bit harsh
All the best
Stuart
09-12-2011, 12:49 PM
#6
RE: Why has buying a jet in the classified become so much of a PITA??
I see no issue here with the ads though. Use them appropriately. He accepted your offer, he did not deliver, he gets a bad rating period!...........nothing more. That's really all an ad is good for.
I understand your frustration, but this is a risk that you have to be willing to take if you want to use the ads. There's just no way around it.
On the other side, see how many people are having delivery issues dealing with manufacturers and reps directly!. Same risks.
I understand your frustration, but this is a risk that you have to be willing to take if you want to use the ads. There's just no way around it.
On the other side, see how many people are having delivery issues dealing with manufacturers and reps directly!. Same risks.
09-12-2011, 01:05 PM
#7
My Feedback: (57)
RE: Why has buying a jet in the classified become so much of a PITA??
Doc,
Sorry to hear your ordeal. The same can go for sellers dealing with buyers who do not do what they "say" they are going to do!
And yes, you should leave feedback, even if you're uncomfortable with a "poor" rating, give him an "o.k." with an explanation to at least have it on the radar.
Sorry to hear your ordeal. The same can go for sellers dealing with buyers who do not do what they "say" they are going to do!
And yes, you should leave feedback, even if you're uncomfortable with a "poor" rating, give him an "o.k." with an explanation to at least have it on the radar.
09-12-2011, 01:42 PM
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RE: Why has buying a jet in the classified become so much of a PITA??
In my view, payment should only be made either "upon delivery, acceptance" if you"re meeting in person, or, for "immediate shipment" upon clearance of funds.
Leaving such a long period between your payment and your planned receipt of the items is just asking for sh$t to happen! I was attempting to do a similar deal prior to KY Jets, wherein the seller would deliver the jet there. I simply told him I would háve cash in hand at the event and we would complete the deal at that time. No problem, no one is at risk, it works.
David S
PS
The whole point of the rating system is to help us all better separate the guys who " do what they say they will do" vs those who don't. This person apparently, in this instance, didn't follow thru with his commitment. His rating should indicate as such.
Leaving such a long period between your payment and your planned receipt of the items is just asking for sh$t to happen! I was attempting to do a similar deal prior to KY Jets, wherein the seller would deliver the jet there. I simply told him I would háve cash in hand at the event and we would complete the deal at that time. No problem, no one is at risk, it works.
David S
PS
The whole point of the rating system is to help us all better separate the guys who " do what they say they will do" vs those who don't. This person apparently, in this instance, didn't follow thru with his commitment. His rating should indicate as such.
09-12-2011, 02:45 PM
#11
RE: Why has buying a jet in the classified become so much of a PITA??
To me it sounds like the guy needed money (for whatever reason) that he didn't have at the time to fund something else (who know's and who cares). When you forked out the cash, that allowed him to fund/purchase whatever he wanted right then and their. Then after tap-dancing around the delivery (which REALLY sounds like he was just trying to build up the money for your refund) he just refunded your money b/c he got an interest free loan to get whatever he wanted AND got to keep the jet he had planned to sell..
If it was me, Poor rating would be given with a link to this thread!
If i'm also planning to meet someone for a sale, if they want to meet further than an hour from my home, i ask for a deposit large enough to at least cover my expenses in gas for the round trip. That way if the buyer is a no-show i'm not out any money, and I make sure they understand that the deposit is no refundable if they are a no-show at the meeting point. This ensures both the buyer and the seller are serious about the deal.
If it was me, Poor rating would be given with a link to this thread!
If i'm also planning to meet someone for a sale, if they want to meet further than an hour from my home, i ask for a deposit large enough to at least cover my expenses in gas for the round trip. That way if the buyer is a no-show i'm not out any money, and I make sure they understand that the deposit is no refundable if they are a no-show at the meeting point. This ensures both the buyer and the seller are serious about the deal.
09-12-2011, 03:11 PM
#12
RE: Why has buying a jet in the classified become so much of a PITA??
Doc,
Yes, poor rating indeed. Like the man said, time is money (not to mention miles on your vehicle and gas are money) so you're out more than the interest-free loan you made him...
Lame.
Yes, poor rating indeed. Like the man said, time is money (not to mention miles on your vehicle and gas are money) so you're out more than the interest-free loan you made him...
Lame.
09-12-2011, 04:33 PM
#13
My Feedback: (2)
RE: Why has buying a jet in the classified become so much of a PITA??
Doc, you're a straight shooter and always have been. I have bought no less than 4 jets from Doc and sold him one. He isn't kidding when he says he is fair, Doc is beyond fair, he is downright generous and always goes the extra mile. Problem. Is Doc, you give him a bad rating, and them he gives you one and lies about why you never met your end of bargain in your bad rating that he gives you. Now a future jet purchaser who doesn't know you sees a recent bad review and wonders if you are trustworthy.
It's a bad dilemma to have especially since you did nothing wrong. Got your back buddy.
Shaz
It's a bad dilemma to have especially since you did nothing wrong. Got your back buddy.
Shaz
09-12-2011, 05:01 PM
#14
RE: Why has buying a jet in the classified become so much of a PITA??
ORIGINAL: sskianpour
Problem. Is Doc, you give him a bad rating, and them he gives you one and lies about why you never met your end of bargain in your bad rating that he gives you.
Problem. Is Doc, you give him a bad rating, and them he gives you one and lies about why you never met your end of bargain in your bad rating that he gives you.
True.
If the inconsiderate one does post a rebuttal of lies, a link to this thread showing how Doc is well liked here will settle any doubts of a prospective buyer/seller.
Considering the runaround Doc got with time and money lost, the guy doesn't just deserve a bad rating.. he EARNED a bad rating.
... That's my take on the situation I've read here.
09-12-2011, 05:58 PM
#16
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RE: Why has buying a jet in the classified become so much of a PITA??
I don`t buy anything unless i put my hands on it. Unless it is a registered store. Trust no one in this day. If i can`t drive to it ,then they can keep it.
09-12-2011, 07:06 PM
#17
RE: Why has buying a jet in the classified become so much of a PITA??
I bought and sold a few jets in the past year. All were very good transactions. For three of the jets I bought ($2000~ $3000), I did not even send a deposit. I just talked to the seller and made arrangements to pick up the jet within a few weeks. I paid in full when I arrived to get the jet. On the purchase of a forth jet, I sent a $200 deposit ... and that was after talking to the seller to confirm the condition of the jet. He did not ask for a deposit, I offered it. He was happy to wait for all the money until I picked it up. But I sent $200 anyway. He was also a State Trooper, so I knew I would have nothing to worry about. I would never put a deposit of more than $200 on anything I didn't see... no matter who it is. About a month later, I was able to arrange the time to get the jet. On all of my jet purchases, I drove 800 to 1100 miles to get the jet. Twice within two months, I drove to Maryland (from Florida) to pick up the jets I bought through RCU.
Secondly, most people can figure out what I do for a living and realize that I can be trusted to follow through on the deal ... even without a deposit. And equally, I can figure out who I'm dealing with to know they are a good person.
In my opinion, if someone is serious about selling their jet, then just a small deposit should seal the deal until the buyer can pick it up. That should keep the seller interested in getting the rest of the money and ensure that they will meet you to finish the transaction, without jerking you around.
Secondly, most people can figure out what I do for a living and realize that I can be trusted to follow through on the deal ... even without a deposit. And equally, I can figure out who I'm dealing with to know they are a good person.
In my opinion, if someone is serious about selling their jet, then just a small deposit should seal the deal until the buyer can pick it up. That should keep the seller interested in getting the rest of the money and ensure that they will meet you to finish the transaction, without jerking you around.
09-12-2011, 07:30 PM
#18
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RE: Why has buying a jet in the classified become so much of a PITA??
Hey Doc, I got your back on this one!!![>:] He done you way wrong. Sounds like he got what exactly what he wanted. That sucks big time. I'm sure there's another airliner with your name on it 
Scott
Scott
09-12-2011, 10:33 PM
#19
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RE: Why has buying a jet in the classified become so much of a PITA??
Everyone in this forum probably already knows Doc Yates, but just in case-
I can't say enough good about the guy. Doc sold me a jet and went well above and beyond the extra mile to ensure that the jet was packaged and shipped in a safe and timely manner as described for the price we agreed on!! Period. No excuses, no aliens detained it, no dog ate it, no BS. In fact, the crate and shipping arangements exceeded my expectations!! As Shaz stated, Doc is down right generous. All was shipped and delivered as we had discussedand at a time when I was not readily available. Doc, I am sorry that you went through this nonsense. You are definately one of the good guys in my book (and the books of probably everyone else!).
The endorsment doesn't mean much when you Doc are trying to buy something, but I would send you payment in full any day of the week for any item you were selling. The jet you sold me is a real beauty and 100% as described. You treated me very, very well and I am sorry that you were not treated the same way.
Should you ever need anything from the Denver area, I'll +1 (again!!) what Shaz said- I got your back.
J.P.
I can't say enough good about the guy. Doc sold me a jet and went well above and beyond the extra mile to ensure that the jet was packaged and shipped in a safe and timely manner as described for the price we agreed on!! Period. No excuses, no aliens detained it, no dog ate it, no BS. In fact, the crate and shipping arangements exceeded my expectations!! As Shaz stated, Doc is down right generous. All was shipped and delivered as we had discussedand at a time when I was not readily available. Doc, I am sorry that you went through this nonsense. You are definately one of the good guys in my book (and the books of probably everyone else!).
The endorsment doesn't mean much when you Doc are trying to buy something, but I would send you payment in full any day of the week for any item you were selling. The jet you sold me is a real beauty and 100% as described. You treated me very, very well and I am sorry that you were not treated the same way.
Should you ever need anything from the Denver area, I'll +1 (again!!) what Shaz said- I got your back.
J.P.
09-12-2011, 10:46 PM
#20
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RE: Why has buying a jet in the classified become so much of a PITA??
Sounds to me like he may have either changed his mind or got a better offer from someone else.
Craig.
Craig.
09-13-2011, 04:10 AM
#21
RE: Why has buying a jet in the classified become so much of a PITA??
Thanks for the feedback guys. Like I said, I totally undertand people having things pop up, but even when I tried to accomodate him, it just could not be worked out on his side. 99% of all the people you deal with on here are good people who will bend over backwards to make it work out. This hobby is not about making money off of your fellow modeler, at least it has never been that way for me, cause I certainly have not found the secret to it.
My philosophy has always been to trust someone until they give you a reason to do otherwise, and when you do that sooner or later someone is going to prove you wrong.
I plan on leaving the feedback so others can see and be warned. I have kept every text message and email between us, so at least when someone questions my integrity later on, I can rest in the knowledge that I did attempt to fulfill my end of the deal.
My philosophy has always been to trust someone until they give you a reason to do otherwise, and when you do that sooner or later someone is going to prove you wrong.
I plan on leaving the feedback so others can see and be warned. I have kept every text message and email between us, so at least when someone questions my integrity later on, I can rest in the knowledge that I did attempt to fulfill my end of the deal.
09-13-2011, 05:13 AM
#24
RE: Why has buying a jet in the classified become so much of a PITA??
Doc, you made the right choice. And just to prove you that it works, I would never deal with "that" guy after reading his new rating.....that easy.
Thanks for the heads up to all of us.
David
Thanks for the heads up to all of us.
David
