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View Poll Results: A poll
Walk away and forget about it
35.92%
Insist that restitution be made
57.39%
File a law suite
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So what would you do in this situation?????

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Old 09-18-2011, 01:14 PM
  #51
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: willig10

Big boys = A group of ''Skilled and Responsible'' pilots. Also known as ''Real Men''. Someone who steps up and takes ownership of a problem or his actions, due to either a mechanical failure or his own mistake.



Glenn Williams

Aha, understood. I may have to have a good look around my club to find some of these though....
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Old 09-18-2011, 01:14 PM
  #52
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: Chris Smith

Andy,

Not sure I would lump cars, artwork and boats etc in this discussion. Most all of those items can be insured or at least I can be insured if I damage yours.

But I appreciate and agree with the principles of doing the right thing for each other. However, my point is that considering the liability precedent voiced in this thread, each participant should evaluate his ability to pay, BEFORE participating.

Would it not be irresponsible then, for a guy to fly at a jet meet if he has insufficient resources to replace or repair any of the jets there? How about the 15 year old kid who saved up and purchased an EDF and is flying at the meet? Are we going to go after Daddy? If I'm his Dad knowing the rule going in, Jr. ain't going to the meet.

I've been around awhile. Maybe RC has gotten so expensive that we all need or want restitution. And I know that most of us participate knowing that due to our superior build and flying skills ''it isn't going to happen to me''. So we go to the jet meets where a lot of BVM jets are.

But life has shown some of us that it can ''happen to me'', and likely will as meets get larger. Maybe RC today has become a sport for only ''the big boys'' as stated in another post.

Chris
If someone is being reckless or just plane dumb and something happens they should be liable, but if you saying that if some one can't afford to replace the cost of a jet if an accident happens then we should not fly at an event. Thats just crazy. If thats the case then the jet meets would ony have a few pilots as I'm sure not everyone could just open a check book and sign a big check because of an accident. How many times at events we have seen landings go bad. At FL Jets I have seen Jets landing go through the pits and hit other Jets ***** happens.

In this case the guy was wrong as he states he had control and maybe had plenty of time to cut the engine but did not.

Maybe like some others in this hobby I have to save and it took time for me to have what I have but I will be damned if some one tells me or my son that I should not go to a jet event becausse I can not afford to pay for someones jet if and ACCIDENT happens. Like I said if some one is reckless that's a whole different thing.

After all this is a HOBBY



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Old 09-18-2011, 01:50 PM
  #53
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Default RE: So what would you do in this situation?????

I build them just to scratch them myself. I dont mind the accident but the walking away is unforgiveable. Size 11......CRUNCH! I would then bow
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Old 09-18-2011, 02:01 PM
  #54
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Default RE: So what would you do in this situation?????

Quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjets12

Maybe like some others in this hobby I have to save and it took time for me to have what I have but I will be damned if some one tells me or my son that I should not go to a jet event becausse I can not afford to pay for someones jet if and ACCIDENT happens. Like I said if some one is reckless that's a whole different thing.

After all this is a HOBBY
I'm only recommending each of us think about it.

What you're saying is probably how most feel. But, there are hazards. Who defines "accident" and who defines "reckless", negligent or whatever? Who decides who is a good guy ,and who's the jerk? What Andy is saying should get some folks thinking. Especially, if there are young people with limited or even enthusiastic parental support, or others not as financially well off mixing it up with other participants' expensive models on the same ramp, and sharing the same airspace.

All I'm suggesting is that most participants probably do not consider their financial exposure as discussed in this thread. Assuming what Andy suggests is the accepted standard, we are all a dumb thumb or mechanical failure away from buying an Ultra Bandit. Maybe that's how it needs to be. But it means you have a $15k or whatever, financial exposure with no insurance coverage if you choose to play.

Shows how cool this hobby must be since we are willing to do it anyway.
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Old 09-18-2011, 02:38 PM
  #55
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Default RE: So what would you do in this situation?????

Quote:
ORIGINAL: Chris Smith

Quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjets12

Maybe like some others in this hobby I have to save and it took time for me to have what I have but I will be damned if some one tells me or my son that I should not go to a jet event becausse I can not afford to pay for someones jet if and ACCIDENT happens. Like I said if some one is reckless that's a whole different thing.

After all this is a HOBBY
I'm only recommending each of us think about it.

What you're saying is probably how most feel. But, there are hazards. Who defines ''accident'' and who defines ''negligent'' or whatever. Who decides who is a good guy , and who's the jerk? What Andy is saying should get some folks thinking. Especially, if there are young people with limited or even enthusiastic parental support, or others not as financially well off mixing it up with other participants' expensive models on the same ramp, and sharing the same airspace.

All I'm suggesting is that most participants probably do not consider their financial exposure as discussed in this thread. Assuming what Andy suggests is the accepted standard, we are all a dumb thumb or mechanical failure away from buying an Ultra Bandit. Maybe that's how it needs to be. But it means you have a $15k or whatever, financial exposure with no insurance coverage if you choose to play.

Shows how cool this hobby must be since we are willing to do it anyway.
I'm not saying its the standard. In my opinion, the standard has been that people don't usually go to extremes to expect restitution for accidents. But as cost rise so do expectations. That is, all I am saying is that there is a .. potential for huge exposure. Most never think about it. Most never act on it. But there is always the chance that one will. The ole adage "ignorance is bliss" applies to this conversation for some who have posted here. After all... LOL, "its just a hobby" for God's sake!
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Old 09-18-2011, 05:43 PM
  #56
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Default RE: So what would you do in this situation?????

If the guy would of acted like an adult and owned up for his "controlled" (which if he was in Control, he must of been aiming for the jet?) crash/accident, then this thread would of probably never even existed. Modesty and humility from the guilty party are typically respected more than the cold shoulder routine
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Old 09-18-2011, 08:04 PM
  #57
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Default RE: So what would you do in this situation?????

My point of view... from five feet away.

This was just one of those unfortunate accidents that happen occasionally. The owner of the jet took the high road and moved on after realizing that no compensation would be paid.

As for the Mustang pilot, he did not try to sneak away like nothing happened as some have insinuated. In fact he waited for pictures to be taken before moving his plane. And he didn't just land uncontrollably into the pits. As a matter of fact he made a nice wheel touchdown right in the middle of the designated runway. But as sometimes happens with a small ruddered warbird, the 5 mph crosswind got the best of him as he slowed down. So he WAS in control, right up until the point where he WASN'T LOL. He explained the obvious, that the wind caught him and he couldn't straighten the plane out with full rudder and even used full aileron too. Maybe he should have given it throttle to get some air over the rudder, or up elevator to plant the tail wheel, or kill the engine to lessen the damage and not use aileron which could make it worse (adverse yaw). But whatever, the accident happened.

So next some guys start on this guy about his piloting skills and how he should learn how to land an airplane. He felt insulted and at this point it started to get a little heated and he said the jets shouldn't be parked in that area. I not so politely pointed out where the flight line was and where his plane ended up.

The owner of the jet was not around when all this happened and someone went to look for him. The Mustang pilot started to walk away and was told to wait for the owner of the jet. I don't think he realized that the owner wasn't among the guys giving him a hard time so it's not like he was trying to sneak off. When the owner showed up the two of them had some discussion which I was not trying to hear. So if the guy was a jerk after that, I have no idea, as I left the area.

I'm not trying to stick up for the guy but some facts and a little empathy help to explain the situation he was in.
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Old 09-18-2011, 08:12 PM
  #58
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: causeitflies

My point of view... from five feet away.

This was just one of those unfortunate accidents that happen occasionally. The owner of the jet took the high road and moved on after realizing that no compensation would be paid.

As for the Mustang pilot, he did not try to sneak away like nothing happened as some have insinuated. In fact he waited for pictures to be taken before moving his plane. And he didn't just land uncontrollably into the pits. As a matter of fact he made a nice wheel touchdown right in the middle of the designated runway. But as sometimes happens with a small ruddered warbird, the 5 mph crosswind got the best of him as he slowed down. So he WAS in control, right up until the point where he WASN'T LOL. He explained the obvious, that the wind caught him and he couldn't straighten the plane out with full rudder and even used full aileron too. Maybe he should have given it throttle to get some air over the rudder, or up elevator to plant the tail wheel, or kill the engine to lessen the damage and not use aileron which could make it worse (adverse yaw). But whatever, the accident happened.

So next some guys start on this guy about his piloting skills and how he should learn how to land an airplane. He felt insulted and at this point it started to get a little heated and he said the jets shouldn't be parked in that area. I not so politely pointed out where the flight line was and where his plane ended up.

The owner of the jet was not around when all this happened and someone went to look for him. The Mustang pilot started to walk away and was told to wait for the owner of the jet. I don't think he realized that the owner wasn't among the guys giving him a hard time so it's not like he was trying to sneak off. When the owner showed up the two of them had some discussion which I was not trying to hear. So if the guy was a jerk after that, I have no idea, as I left the area.

I'm not trying to stick up for the guy but some facts and a little empathy help to explain the situation he was in.
well this post changes the entire thread!
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Old 09-18-2011, 09:29 PM
  #59
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Default RE: So what would you do in this situation?????

This topic can be kicked around forever. Everyone has different ideas. As for me, if I ever hit or damaged someones plane or jet, I would offer to repair it or pay for the damage.

Remember this ... we really can't establish a repair value since not too many of us are in the R/C model repair business. Matter of fact, an R/C repair shop doesn't exist. We could possibly figure the cost of materials, but not labor. We mostly build and repair our own planes/jets. We are not repair facilities.

If this were to get into a court room, I think the judge would have the same problem. Where could anyone get two estimates for the repair? Certainly not from the owner of the damaged jet. That would be biased. All a judge could determine is the cost of materials. Yet that could be a little tough too.

In the case of an auto accident, the vehicle that was not moving could never be held legally at fault. A stopped vehicle is under control. Whatever hits a stopped vehicle would be considered not under control. It's as simple as that. Using those facts, the Mustang could be deemed to have been out of control because it hit the parked jet. The owner/pilot of the Mustang is at fault because he was not able to control his plane or prevent it from hitting another. If he had control, his plane would not have hit another.

Monetary damages would be hard to ascertain unless repair estimates could be documented by a relaible repair shop ... which for R/C, really doesn't exist.

In my opinion, I see this as a very difficult lawsuit for both parties. I wonder how this would turn out if brought to court.
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Old 09-19-2011, 04:12 AM
  #60
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Default RE: So what would you do in this situation?????

maybe there should have been a barrier or fence of some sort to keep runaway planes from getting behind the flight line, every field i've ever been to has this to protect people and planes, its too bad the jet has a few paint scrapes, but it looks like the mustang got the worst of it. I don't care how skilled a flier you are, there are going to be times when something like this happens, In my opinion those planes parked along the flightline out in the open should have been behind a fence. it was an accident and stuff happens unfortunately
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Old 09-19-2011, 04:51 AM
  #61
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Default RE: So what would you do in this situation?????

It Kind of sounds like the guy might have felt out numbered ,backed into a corner a bit maybe and reacted poorly as a result. He had an accident and putting a # 11 thru his canopy would be an on purpose . This would not be the write thing to do in my opinion..Let him know you are not too happy.Walk away,give him some time...See if he man's up...if not the damage was not that bad and risk is part of our hobby...We have have no control over what others do...We only have control over what we do and just because sombody else acts poorly dosen't mean we should...Also we need to rember there is always two sides to every story.
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Old 09-19-2011, 05:12 AM
  #62
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Default RE: So what would you do in this situation?????

Quote:
ORIGINAL: bevar

+1


Quote:
ORIGINAL: tp777fo

Hitting an airplane is just an accident. Trying to hide your mistake and walking away is the mark of a cowardly POS. I still vote for size 11 through the canopy.
Not me. I'd give him a big hug, maybe even tell him I feel his pain and bite my lower lip for effect, then hold hands and sing "Kum ba yah" (or maybe that "We are the world" song) and live happily ever after.....
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Old 09-19-2011, 06:09 AM
  #63
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Default RE: So what would you do in this situation?????


Quote:
ORIGINAL: VF84sluggo

Quote:
ORIGINAL: bevar

+1


Quote:
ORIGINAL: tp777fo

Hitting an airplane is just an accident. Trying to hide your mistake and walking away is the mark of a cowardly POS. I still vote for size 11 through the canopy.
Not me. I'd give him a big hug, maybe even tell him I feel his pain and bite my lower lip for effect, then hold hands and sing ''Kum ba yah'' (or maybe that ''We are the world'' song) and live happily ever after.....
Randy...priceless
Maybe for a better effect you and Bevar could hug the guy together
Maybe you should invite the guy to fly at GA Jets this week
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Old 09-19-2011, 06:13 AM
  #64
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Default RE: So what would you do in this situation?????


Quote:
ORIGINAL: RCISFUN


Quote:
ORIGINAL: VF84sluggo

Quote:
ORIGINAL: bevar

+1


Quote:
ORIGINAL: tp777fo

Hitting an airplane is just an accident. Trying to hide your mistake and walking away is the mark of a cowardly POS. I still vote for size 11 through the canopy.
Not me. I'd give him a big hug, maybe even tell him I feel his pain and bite my lower lip for effect, then hold hands and sing ''Kum ba yah'' (or maybe that ''We are the world'' song) and live happily ever after.....
Randy...priceless
Maybe for a better effect you and Bevar could hug the guy together
Maybe you should invite the guy to fly at GA Jets this week
Yes a Randy[X(]Bevar love sandwich.
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Old 09-19-2011, 06:53 AM
  #65
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Default RE: So what would you do in this situation?????

Not having any sort of barrier between the runway and where models are sitting is a recipe for disaster. I personally would have had my models further back on the grass if possible (grass would at least slow a rolling plane). But in this scenario you may just have to chalk it up to "sh*t happens" unless straw hat guy offers restitution's. Certainly a d*ck move on his part trying to just walk away though.
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Old 09-19-2011, 07:43 AM
  #66
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Default RE: So what would you do in this situation?????

I personnally think that if we as R/C modelers start looking for restitution, irregardless of opinion of how the accident occured, we all can kiss this hobby goodbye. I never take any aircraft out to play without the understanding that something or someone could damage it. And for me to expect restitution for such an accident would be bullsh%$, would and will never happen. And if it get's to where I felt my fellow modeler's did I will quit the hobby.
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Old 09-19-2011, 08:00 AM
  #67
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Default RE: So what would you do in this situation?????


Quote:
ORIGINAL: AndyAndrews


Quote:
ORIGINAL: RCISFUN

Maybe for a better effect you and Bevar could hug the guy together
Maybe you should invite the guy to fly at GA Jets this week
Yes a Randy[X(]Bevar love sandwich.
Well, you know, it does get kind of lonely out there in the sticks in Gay, GA....even Boli might start lookin' pretty good
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Old 09-19-2011, 08:02 AM
  #68
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Default RE: So what would you do in this situation?????

Or how about this, next time any of you(collect restitution guy's) are in Top Gun or Florida Jets Or Monster Planes think of the restittution from the spectators or volunteer's if or should I say when something happen's. After all It was no fault of there's you lost control. And in the same line of thinking, none of them assume any risk coming to watch you, right!
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Old 09-19-2011, 10:06 AM
  #69
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Default RE: So what would you do in this situation?????

In light of this thread and the (collect restitution guy's) I will no longer fly at these events. It is sad that modelers expose their models to incident and then expect payment. If I park in an unprotected area I am exposing myself to risk. My decision to park there dose not expose all around me to risk of paying for my model. I sorry, it seems to me we are looking at this 180 backwards. It may have been told that it is ok to park there but that does not mean you are protected from risk. Reread post 57,65,66.
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Old 09-19-2011, 10:08 AM
  #70
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Default RE: So what would you do in this situation?????

Quote:
ORIGINAL: causeitflies

My point of view... from five feet away.

This was just one of those unfortunate accidents that happen occasionally. The owner of the jet took the high road and moved on after realizing that no compensation would be paid.

As for the Mustang pilot, he did not try to sneak away like nothing happened as some have insinuated. In fact he waited for pictures to be taken before moving his plane. And he didn't just land uncontrollably into the pits. As a matter of fact he made a nice wheel touchdown right in the middle of the designated runway. But as sometimes happens with a small ruddered warbird, the 5 mph crosswind got the best of him as he slowed down. So he WAS in control, right up until the point where he WASN'T LOL. He explained the obvious, that the wind caught him and he couldn't straighten the plane out with full rudder and even used full aileron too. Maybe he should have given it throttle to get some air over the rudder, or up elevator to plant the tail wheel, or kill the engine to lessen the damage and not use aileron which could make it worse (adverse yaw). But whatever, the accident happened.

So next some guys start on this guy about his piloting skills and how he should learn how to land an airplane. He felt insulted and at this point it started to get a little heated and he said the jets shouldn't be parked in that area. I not so politely pointed out where the flight line was and where his plane ended up.

The owner of the jet was not around when all this happened and someone went to look for him. The Mustang pilot started to walk away and was told to wait for the owner of the jet. I don't think he realized that the owner wasn't among the guys giving him a hard time so it's not like he was trying to sneak off. When the owner showed up the two of them had some discussion which I was not trying to hear. So if the guy was a jerk after that, I have no idea, as I left the area.

I'm not trying to stick up for the guy but some facts and a little empathy help to explain the situation he was in.

As usual the other side of the story comes out. And this time not by the other principle but an honest bystander without a dog in the fight. My initial reaction to the OP was a size eleven in the canopy. But after reading this and inspecting the first pic in the OP. My opinion (which was requested) has shifted slightly in favor of the Mustang guy.

From a small but vocal slice of our hobby that wastes no opportunity to remind how expensive these models are and how much work is involved and how experienced you have to be to even own one… A group who has complained that spectators should not even be allowed at jet meets let alone be near one as to damage it…

Can you state honestly THAT THIS IS A SAFE PLACE TO PARK YOUR MODELS??? I saw the word reckless above. Perfect caption for this pic.

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Old 09-19-2011, 10:13 AM
  #71
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Default RE: So what would you do in this situation?????


Quote:
ORIGINAL: edh13


Quote:
ORIGINAL: causeitflies

My point of view... from five feet away.

This was just one of those unfortunate accidents that happen occasionally. The owner of the jet took the high road and moved on after realizing that no compensation would be paid.

As for the Mustang pilot, he did not try to sneak away like nothing happened as some have insinuated. In fact he waited for pictures to be taken before moving his plane. And he didn't just land uncontrollably into the pits. As a matter of fact he made a nice wheel touchdown right in the middle of the designated runway. But as sometimes happens with a small ruddered warbird, the 5 mph crosswind got the best of him as he slowed down. So he WAS in control, right up until the point where he WASN'T LOL. He explained the obvious, that the wind caught him and he couldn't straighten the plane out with full rudder and even used full aileron too. Maybe he should have given it throttle to get some air over the rudder, or up elevator to plant the tail wheel, or kill the engine to lessen the damage and not use aileron which could make it worse (adverse yaw). But whatever, the accident happened.

So next some guys start on this guy about his piloting skills and how he should learn how to land an airplane. He felt insulted and at this point it started to get a little heated and he said the jets shouldn't be parked in that area. I not so politely pointed out where the flight line was and where his plane ended up.

The owner of the jet was not around when all this happened and someone went to look for him. The Mustang pilot started to walk away and was told to wait for the owner of the jet. I don't think he realized that the owner wasn't among the guys giving him a hard time so it's not like he was trying to sneak off. When the owner showed up the two of them had some discussion which I was not trying to hear. So if the guy was a jerk after that, I have no idea, as I left the area.

I'm not trying to stick up for the guy but some facts and a little empathy help to explain the situation he was in.

As usual the other side of the story comes out. And this time not by the other principle but an honest bystander without a dog in the fight. My initial reaction to the OP was a size eleven in the canopy. But after reading this and inspecting the first pic in the OP. My opinion (which was requested) has shifted slightly in favor of the Mustang guy.

From a small but vocal slice of our hobby that wastes no opportunity to remind how expensive these models are and how much work is involved and how experienced you have to be to even own one… A group who has complained that spectators should not even be allowed at jet meets let alone be near one as to damage it…

Can you state honestly THAT IS THIS A SAFE PLACE TO PARK YOUR MODELS??? I saw the word reckless above. Perfect caption for this pic.



My point also. If I park my model there I except the risk of accident.
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Old 09-19-2011, 11:10 AM
  #72
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Default RE: So what would you do in this situation?????

In events such as these, the quickest, cheapest, most effective way to resolve it, is to negotiate a settlement one on one. No need to go see "the principle" kids.

Plus this is a small tight knit community, everyone knows everyone. If the jet owner was gone and I had to leave, I would have told one of my friends to give the guy my email/phne# and go from there.

The guy didn't step on the plane out of hate, it was a fluke accident.


Historically, I've noticed maturity doesn't come with age. It comes with understanding what's right.



Steve
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Old 09-19-2011, 11:15 AM
  #73
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Default RE: So what would you do in this situation?????

Please don't use irregaurdless. You'll lose your case.

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Old 09-19-2011, 01:28 PM
  #74
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Default RE: So what would you do in this situation?????


Quote:
ORIGINAL: junkjet

In light of this thread and the (collect restitution guy's) I will no longer fly at these events. It is sad that modelers expose their models to incident and then expect payment. If I park in an unprotected area I am exposing myself to risk. My decision to park there dose not expose all around me to risk of paying for my model. I sorry, it seems to me we are looking at this 180 backwards. It may have been told that it is ok to park there but that does not mean you are protected from risk. Reread post 57,65,66.
Freddy,

I can understand the concerns. However, the parking location of the models is really not the issue. It could have been in an accident tucked away in its tent. My guess is that the flying events; and I'll speak only to jet events, are more cordial than the thread may make it sound. Or so it seems to me.

But what has been articulated here is that a number of guys expect settlements, restitution, negotiations, repairs paid for, and evidence you are "manning up" for accidents. The expected cash outlay could be mitigated by who's your buddy, how old you are, or through litigation on the spot by the attending lawyers (hopefully one of whom is not the owner of the Ultra Bandit you ran into).

Maybe high cost RC generates this atmosphere. Maybe this is part of being a victim and being entitled. But it isn't the norm. And I was flying when proportional radios were new.

Having said all that, there are far too many folks showing up at meets and events with less than safety in mind, and a rather cavalier approach to flying and sane procedure. After awhile, guys with nice airplanes, who care about their hobby; and are willing to put resources into it, may tend to exhibit some frustration. The results could be demands for cash settlements, etc. Isn't this fun?

It does make one think about his/her exposure. That might be a good thing. But some of us may find that rather than the big jet meet, a peaceful uncontroversial football game on TV will do for a spell.
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Old 09-19-2011, 01:33 PM
  #75
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Default RE: So what would you do in this situation?????

Was there more damage than paint chips?
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