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Thorpe F-20 build

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Old 07-29-2012, 04:11 PM
  #251
tlj125
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Default RE: Thorpe F-20 build

Do you have a link for 2K products? Thanks for the info. Your paint looks much better.
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Old 07-29-2012, 10:53 PM
  #252
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Default RE: Thorpe F-20 build

Hi
The site is in the UK but it will give you the info etc and you will be able to ask for the same sort of paint at US auto paint supplies. The site is: www.paints4u.com if you look under car paints you will see a product called Macrafan which is a 2k based product also in the primer section is the Ti primer filler
I will send the links when on a pc later as on phone atm.

Cheers

Alan
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Old 07-30-2012, 04:19 AM
  #253
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Default RE: Thorpe F-20 build

Terry

This is link to type of primer I use: http://www.paints4u.com/ProductDetai...productID=3019

and the paint I use: http://www.paints4u.com/ProductDetai...productID=6823

To mix I always weigh on a scale, I am sure you will be able to get same paint in the US. I used to spray my cars with this type of paint and it is a lot better than single pack paints and way better than water based auto paints they are using in production currently.

Any questions please give me a shout

Alan

Update: Got my Sata mini jet 4, gave it a try this afternoon very pleased with it well worth the money!
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Old 08-05-2012, 08:39 AM
  #254
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Default RE: Thorpe F-20 build

Glenn invited me over to use his vacuum form equipment. We made two canopies from .040" thick sheet purchased from SIG. This was my first time doing this. Turned out very well. Thanks again Glenn!
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Old 08-05-2012, 08:56 AM
  #255
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Default RE: Thorpe F-20 build

I have been sanding for hours now trying to get the orange peel and bumps out of the paint I spayed on last weekend. Started out with 600 paper. The paper clogged so bad that I swithed to 400. This also clogged very quickly. Tried wet sanding- dipping the paper in water. This worked but I couldn't tell what kind of sanding job I was doing. It was also very messy. It looked like blood everywhere. Went back to dry and starting using compressed air to blow off the clogged paper every few minutes. Very slow going. Switch to 200 paper on the bottom of the fuse. The paper still clogged up very quickly and needed to be blown off frequently. This paint is very difficult to sand. A major pain. Here is what it looks like so far.
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Old 08-05-2012, 10:36 AM
  #256
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Default RE: Thorpe F-20 build

Yep it can be hard work but those wings look miles better

Alan
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Old 08-05-2012, 01:41 PM
  #257
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Default RE: Thorpe F-20 build

Use a bar of soap, dip the paper in the water and then rub the soap over it (soap being wetted as well)! it is messy but it works well! Repeat as you go!


JT
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Old 08-06-2012, 01:45 AM
  #258
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Default RE: Thorpe F-20 build

Thanks Alan.

JT- What does the soap do?

Why do you wet sand? I ask a guy who paints cars this question and he said to make a smooth finish more slick. Said it was only needed before the finish clear coat. So what is the advantage to wet sanding other than that?

Sanded the fuse. I think it is ready for another coat of paint.
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Old 08-06-2012, 02:24 AM
  #259
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Default RE: Thorpe F-20 build

It stops the clogging, reduces scratching as it make the paper act like a compound!
This has been used since before I was born (which is not that long ago LOL), but it works!
Simply wipe off with a damp cloth afterwards and if you run your finger over the surface you can feel how smooth it is!

It works well on model aircraft as you are not loading up the paint as you would on a car!
It even works on aluminium when removing scratches before polishing!



Regards


John
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Old 08-06-2012, 04:08 AM
  #260
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Default RE: Thorpe F-20 build

Terry I feel your paini had to do exactly the same the first time I used K&B superpoxy. When I got done sanding the orange peel I had the best surface for paint.
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Old 08-06-2012, 05:27 PM
  #261
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Default RE: Thorpe F-20 build

Painted another coat of red tonight. Sprayed much heavier. I did get some runs in places and still got orange peel in other places. Got a few bugs in there too. Got too dark to get any good pictures. Will get some tomorrow.

Bob- Congrats on your marriage to Mary!
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Old 08-07-2012, 12:26 AM
  #262
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Default RE: Thorpe F-20 build

Hi TJ, I also know your pain. Painting is not an easy skill to master, however it is a necessary skill if you are going to continue with these fabulous builds..

BTW, I love this thread. You have some great skills. This model will give you 10 times the fun and satisfaction of any ARF..

My only recommendations on how to achieve a good paint finish is as follows.
Preparation is every thing.
Practice on a hack model you don’t love so much.
Use the paint manufacturers recommendation on thinners and mix ratios to start with!!. You can alter the ratios as you learn what is going on.
Put the least amount of paint on as possible. (for me this is usually only 2-3 passes with the gun).
Once the paint is on and you have a reasonable finish, clean up and get away from it for 24 hours. Leave it alone to cure. Don’t be tempted to just touch up a spot here and there.

You will find that you are going to be very critical of your own work. A little orange peel is not the end of the world, especially for a beginner. Bugs and dust are a fact of life if you don’t have a $100K spray booth to work in.. Most blemishes like this can be polished out, and most likely, you will be the only person to ever notice them. (Go have a good look at any mass produced car finish, orange peel is normal).

The best advice i was ever given, was to practise on a hack model. Putting paint on is a skill that can only be learned with practise. Keep at it though, because achieving a good finish is very satisfying. Very few modellers can do it nowadays.

Good luck.

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Old 08-07-2012, 03:11 AM
  #263
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Default RE: Thorpe F-20 build

Thank you Terry!
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Old 08-07-2012, 05:59 PM
  #264
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Default RE: Thorpe F-20 build

Good advice Roger!

Painted the second color tonight. The blue seemed to do better than the red. Less orange peel. The tape I use lifted in a couple of spots. Got a little blue where I didn't want it. The paint attacks the tape and makes it turn to goo. I hope the residue will clean up after the paint dries. The bugs didn't seem to like the blue color. Here is the tape job and first coat.
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Old 08-07-2012, 06:03 PM
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Default RE: Thorpe F-20 build

Here it is with the tape and paper removed. I removed the tape while the paint was still wet to minimize the paint edge. Sorry for the dark pictures but it was after sunset before I finished cleaning up.
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Old 08-07-2012, 07:09 PM
  #266
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Default RE: Thorpe F-20 build

Terry, fine work. I know very well the orange peeling and bugs. I even built an elaborate setup as a booth and still had the problems. Luckily I could sand and polish it out. There were some spots That I know about but you can't tell only if you look hard. I never took a picture of it. Lost it on the third flight with a radio glitch. It was a Byron F16. It whet full bore straight down. Total loss. you can tell that was years ago by the plane. Haven't really done much painting lately on anything. Building mostly WW1 Bipes and using stain instead. Got the plans for your plane and accumulating the parts and accesories now. I'm still having no luck finding a canopy over here. Might carve a block and try from scratch.

Keep up the good work.

Bill
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Old 08-09-2012, 02:13 AM
  #267
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Default RE: Thorpe F-20 build

Bill- Sorry to hear about the F-16. Those were great flyers. If you need a canopy, I have two extra. Was thinking about selling them for $25 each.

Tried to clean off the goo from the masking tape. Made a bit of a mess. The paint is still very soft more than 24 hours later. Tested an area on the bottom of the fuse. Marked the paint pretty good and still the goo did not come off. The paint is damaged due to the tape. I waited 24 hours before taping and still the paint is damaged. Looks like I'll be doing more sanding and clear coating. I can't believe how long this paint is taking to dry.
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Old 08-09-2012, 06:25 AM
  #268
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Default RE: Thorpe F-20 build

I still think it will be worth the agro!!!

Love the thread, keep going.


JT
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Old 08-09-2012, 10:24 AM
  #269
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Default RE: Thorpe F-20 build

Did you check the mix ratio of the hardener? If the paint is still soft after 24 hours then this may be the cause. I hope I am wrong and it cures for you. Every problem you have experienced has been repeated by thousands of your peers so you are not alone. Be aware that you are adding weight every time you spray. Best wishes, Ron.
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Old 08-09-2012, 01:01 PM
  #270
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Default RE: Thorpe F-20 build

Terry,
When I used the paint it cured in just a few hours. Pretty much like the literature states. I am wondering if the humidity was to high? Also 3M makes a special Super LOW tac tape for paint trimming. it’s a light blue in color. I believe they also make a low tac tape. I forgot to mention the other day if you need markings , numbers etc., I have a digital cnc cutter.
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Old 08-09-2012, 03:36 PM
  #271
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Default RE: Thorpe F-20 build

Ron- ratio was 1:1:1. The paint is dry but not hard. I am concerned how much weight is being added. I am shocked how much paint it is taking.

Glenn- humidity was not that high for the past two days. I brought the plane inside the airconditioned house last night to see if it would help. The tape I used was the blue 3M stuff from Home Depo. I think the paint just wasn't hard enough in some spots. Would love to do some markings. What will it take to get that done?
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Old 08-09-2012, 04:40 PM
  #272
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Default RE: Thorpe F-20 build

Here are a few pics of the damage from the tape...
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Old 08-09-2012, 08:06 PM
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Default RE: Thorpe F-20 build

Terry, If you would like to sell one of the canopies. I am very interested. Please PM me with the perticulars and I'll get you the money.

It does seem that the finish was not hard enough. It says 24hr full cure at 70 degrees. I now give them at least 24hrs then I use 150watt indoor flood lights and bake for a couple hours too. I scratch a pin in a hidden spot to test the hardness of the finish. I also use a scrap piece of wood to time the cure. I use that to test and if it passes all my tests I'll move to the plane The tape I have been using I purcase at a auto paint supplier all the thicknesses and with the paper attached for large areas. Comes off nicely and any little blemishes come off with a light sanding.

I used to paint guitars and I wouldn't touch the base coat for a week. Then I would test for hardness after that. and when it passes I'd move on to taping.


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Old 08-09-2012, 09:20 PM
  #274
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Default RE: Thorpe F-20 build

Hi Terry,

If the red has not cured yet, it may well do, given enough time. You could try warming it up to around 35-40C for a few hours, like a bake oven..

If it ever does harden, those tape marks may well polish out. You would be amazed what some 1200 wet paper and rubbing compound can do for to a painting error. I’ve fixed quite large runs like this.

And Ron is quite correct. I have had ALL the issues that you are having. You can research and read up on this subject as much as you like, but there is no substitute for actual experience.

Keep at it..

Roger
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Old 08-11-2012, 07:18 PM
  #275
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Default RE: Thorpe F-20 build

Tried several things to get the tape goo off. Windex didn't work. Paint thinner didn't work. MEK worked! Cleaned off most of the goo without doing too much damage to the paint. The blue is still a bit tacky even after several days now. The red is doing better and is not tacky at all. Taped off the bottom of the wings and sprayed yellow today. Used a brush and touched up inside the wheel wells a little bit. Once again I removed the paper and tape just after painting so the ridge wouldn't be as bad.
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