BVM F-4 build
11-26-2011, 07:30 AM
#252
RE: BVM F-4 build
Screw being green Dave. Get a new blade and boost the economy!!
Okay time for more updates. Roger was curious on how to cut the main doors out of the wing, mainly the curved edge. Yea this sucks!!! Especially when it is made by the purple company. Plenty of serious carbon for strength makes the cutting difficult, but as we know makes the end process last forever!! Gotta love US made quality!!
So I taped the main door back in place to show these basic steps. I did not even think of this picture when I was cutting. Good question Roger adn here is the process.
pic #1 shows the use of 3M 1/4 fine line vinyl tape used around the edge. Because I am right handed I will outline the left edge. This way I can watch the blade follow the tape and guide it through the cut the entire time. I have found masking tape doesn't work as good as the blue vinyl tape.
pic #2 shows the blade in position and the cut being made. Go slow and work hte cut. The blade can follow the tape without much hassle. End result is a cut line of about .004" - .006". Easy to clean up and have a nice fit in the end.
Okay time for more updates. Roger was curious on how to cut the main doors out of the wing, mainly the curved edge. Yea this sucks!!! Especially when it is made by the purple company. Plenty of serious carbon for strength makes the cutting difficult, but as we know makes the end process last forever!! Gotta love US made quality!!
So I taped the main door back in place to show these basic steps. I did not even think of this picture when I was cutting. Good question Roger adn here is the process.
pic #1 shows the use of 3M 1/4 fine line vinyl tape used around the edge. Because I am right handed I will outline the left edge. This way I can watch the blade follow the tape and guide it through the cut the entire time. I have found masking tape doesn't work as good as the blue vinyl tape.
pic #2 shows the blade in position and the cut being made. Go slow and work hte cut. The blade can follow the tape without much hassle. End result is a cut line of about .004" - .006". Easy to clean up and have a nice fit in the end.
11-26-2011, 07:40 AM
#253
RE: BVM F-4 build
Time for the diverter struts!! These are something that make the inner side of the diverters when sitting on the ground. So the first thing I did was make a template from 1/64" plywood and cut the V groove so if would fit the main support of hte diverter. This can now be used on other BV Phantom's I build in future years. I still want an "E" model for myself as well as would love to take an "E" model and remove the gun pod from the nose and remold the nose section into a "Recce" version! The "Recce" was the fastest Phantom ever built. Guess it had to be as it didn't have a bunch of armament.
pic #1 shows the plywood template set on the fuselage with the slots configured ready to transfer to the fuselage. The placement of the struts on this template came from many measurements from drawings and 3 views. Have to be as close to right as we can.
pic #2 shows Slots for the upper struts. These slots are designed to fit .030" poly ply that is custom cut to the correct width .190". Measured a full scale phantom near by and then scaled everything down.
pic #3 shows template removed and the marks for the four struts in place.
pic #4 shows the slots in the early stages of being cut out. This was done with a dremel tool and steady hand. and a small (tiny) round dental bit.
pic #1 shows the plywood template set on the fuselage with the slots configured ready to transfer to the fuselage. The placement of the struts on this template came from many measurements from drawings and 3 views. Have to be as close to right as we can.
pic #2 shows Slots for the upper struts. These slots are designed to fit .030" poly ply that is custom cut to the correct width .190". Measured a full scale phantom near by and then scaled everything down.
pic #3 shows template removed and the marks for the four struts in place.
pic #4 shows the slots in the early stages of being cut out. This was done with a dremel tool and steady hand. and a small (tiny) round dental bit.
11-26-2011, 07:48 AM
#254
RE: BVM F-4 build
pic #1 shows the slots in the finish cut mode. These slots were worked with a small permagrit file to just fit the poly ply strut.
pic #2 shows the ploy ply strut next to the fuselage. Mainly to show the thickness of the strut.
pic #3 shows the strut hand fit into each slot. This should be a smooth yet tight fit.
pic #4 shows the struts placed in from the inside to the diverter. At this time the inlet cheek cowls have been installed. Thoise updates are after this one. I cut and trim each sturt to extend into the fuselage about 1mm or so.
pic #5 shows the struts in place (not glued in yet) with the inlet cheek cowls and diverters installed. Definitely adds a bit to this part of the model. When glued in these will be parallel to the ground and square to the fuselage. They will also have a basic sharp leading edge sanded on them.
These struts main purpose was to cut the barrier net on a carrier if teh cable failed or hook did not come down.
pic #2 shows the ploy ply strut next to the fuselage. Mainly to show the thickness of the strut.
pic #3 shows the strut hand fit into each slot. This should be a smooth yet tight fit.
pic #4 shows the struts placed in from the inside to the diverter. At this time the inlet cheek cowls have been installed. Thoise updates are after this one. I cut and trim each sturt to extend into the fuselage about 1mm or so.
pic #5 shows the struts in place (not glued in yet) with the inlet cheek cowls and diverters installed. Definitely adds a bit to this part of the model. When glued in these will be parallel to the ground and square to the fuselage. They will also have a basic sharp leading edge sanded on them.
These struts main purpose was to cut the barrier net on a carrier if teh cable failed or hook did not come down.
11-26-2011, 08:09 AM
#255
RE: BVM F-4 build
Time to put the cheek cowls on and bring the "E" model to life!!!
pic #1 shows the grinding of the flanges to ensure a good solid bond for the aeropoxy.
pic #2 shows pencil lines on the inner sides of the diverters so we know where we need to scuff hard through the primer for a solid bond. The inlet cheek cowls and diverters have been primed and sanded out with 400 wet paper and are ready for paint on the inner side as is the fuselage. Sanding inside here will be tough once these are on so the more we can do before the better off we will be.
Pic #3 and #4 show the relief cuts where the two parts of the cheek cowl are assembled at the factory and the fiberglass tape is on the back side. When we scuff the back side of these we want to almost go through the tape to ensure we will not have this area raised up when installed. This relief cut ensures these parts will fit the mold line of the fuselage perfectly when installed and can be easily filled during the finish process.
pic #1 shows the grinding of the flanges to ensure a good solid bond for the aeropoxy.
pic #2 shows pencil lines on the inner sides of the diverters so we know where we need to scuff hard through the primer for a solid bond. The inlet cheek cowls and diverters have been primed and sanded out with 400 wet paper and are ready for paint on the inner side as is the fuselage. Sanding inside here will be tough once these are on so the more we can do before the better off we will be.
Pic #3 and #4 show the relief cuts where the two parts of the cheek cowl are assembled at the factory and the fiberglass tape is on the back side. When we scuff the back side of these we want to almost go through the tape to ensure we will not have this area raised up when installed. This relief cut ensures these parts will fit the mold line of the fuselage perfectly when installed and can be easily filled during the finish process.
11-26-2011, 08:30 AM
#256
RE: BVM F-4 build
Timne to get serious with the aeropoxy!!!!!
pic #1 shows the aeropoxy laid on one side. You will note the good sized bead along the entire perimeter to ensure a solid squeeze out to work as a filler down in the gap on the mount itself. A solid prep of these areas in the past will ensure a very clean fit and finish during this process. You will note the larger open area with no glue in the center of the V mount. This will be filled with some Slow Zap. This way when I fit the cheek cowl and diverter in place we will ensure the cowl is in the correct position (align all panel lines) and have the Slow Zap set to hold the postion while we work the aft mold line area. This will also hold the front of the diverters in place during the aeropoxy curing.
pic #2 shows working the mold line on the aft edge using the tape method shown during the foward fuselage install earlier in the thread. 1/8" balsa sticks are glued to the masking tape around the entire mold line about every 3/16" - 1/4". You will have aeropoxy squaeeze out between as you can see. If you do not have a good squeeze out inject more aeropoxy. The more solid this is the less chance it will show up later in the finish process.
pic #3 shows the squeeze out of the mating area on the inside mount area. A positive squeeze out is critical in the finish here. If you do not have a good squeeze out, very carefully inject more aeropoxy into the gap without getting any on the finished area of the fuselage or inner side of the cheek cowl and diverter. Very critical to a quality finish. If it is right most won't ever notice it. If you have gaps and globs of glue they will stand out like a sore thumb.
pic #4 shows the inner mating area after the squeeze out has been cleaned up using Q-Tips. The key here is take a Q-Tip and wet the cotton part. Now use it to slowly and smoothly remove the squeezed out aeropoxy. You will go through a bunch of Q-Tips here. I always keep a box of these in the shop. I went through about 100 Q-Tips on the cheek cowls alone! Do a very small area and get another Q-Tip. They are good for one swipe. Once you think you are done, now use alcohol on the Q-Tips to clean anything up in the gaps.
My buddy Addison Clark taught me the Q-Tip program about 10 years ago and since then I still have no idea how I ever built without them. Thanks Addison!!!!! Believe me the build process you are watching is from doing this for 40 years and WATCHING and LISTENING to others along the way. I am not super genious in the world of building. I just asked questions and paid attention back in teh day. RCU gives us an incredible resource to deliver this information that we never had in the 1980's and 1990's. If you have any tips feel free to state them here as well. Don't be afraid to offer up some guidance even if you think your idea might not be the best one out there. It very well may spawn a new process for all of us to build on.
Let them sit overnight and pull the tape and balsa wood. You will be very happy with the results. More updates will be coming on Monday morning. Hoping to have intakes in the "E" model by then and the cheek cowls and diverters about ready for install on the "C" model.
You also might notice the stands the fuselages are sitting on now. These are available from BVM for all of their jets. They are a god send during construction as well as transport and field prep assembly. Check them out!!! http://www.bvmjets.com/Pages/cradle.htm
pic #1 shows the aeropoxy laid on one side. You will note the good sized bead along the entire perimeter to ensure a solid squeeze out to work as a filler down in the gap on the mount itself. A solid prep of these areas in the past will ensure a very clean fit and finish during this process. You will note the larger open area with no glue in the center of the V mount. This will be filled with some Slow Zap. This way when I fit the cheek cowl and diverter in place we will ensure the cowl is in the correct position (align all panel lines) and have the Slow Zap set to hold the postion while we work the aft mold line area. This will also hold the front of the diverters in place during the aeropoxy curing.
pic #2 shows working the mold line on the aft edge using the tape method shown during the foward fuselage install earlier in the thread. 1/8" balsa sticks are glued to the masking tape around the entire mold line about every 3/16" - 1/4". You will have aeropoxy squaeeze out between as you can see. If you do not have a good squeeze out inject more aeropoxy. The more solid this is the less chance it will show up later in the finish process.
pic #3 shows the squeeze out of the mating area on the inside mount area. A positive squeeze out is critical in the finish here. If you do not have a good squeeze out, very carefully inject more aeropoxy into the gap without getting any on the finished area of the fuselage or inner side of the cheek cowl and diverter. Very critical to a quality finish. If it is right most won't ever notice it. If you have gaps and globs of glue they will stand out like a sore thumb.
pic #4 shows the inner mating area after the squeeze out has been cleaned up using Q-Tips. The key here is take a Q-Tip and wet the cotton part. Now use it to slowly and smoothly remove the squeezed out aeropoxy. You will go through a bunch of Q-Tips here. I always keep a box of these in the shop. I went through about 100 Q-Tips on the cheek cowls alone! Do a very small area and get another Q-Tip. They are good for one swipe. Once you think you are done, now use alcohol on the Q-Tips to clean anything up in the gaps.
My buddy Addison Clark taught me the Q-Tip program about 10 years ago and since then I still have no idea how I ever built without them. Thanks Addison!!!!! Believe me the build process you are watching is from doing this for 40 years and WATCHING and LISTENING to others along the way. I am not super genious in the world of building. I just asked questions and paid attention back in teh day. RCU gives us an incredible resource to deliver this information that we never had in the 1980's and 1990's. If you have any tips feel free to state them here as well. Don't be afraid to offer up some guidance even if you think your idea might not be the best one out there. It very well may spawn a new process for all of us to build on.
Let them sit overnight and pull the tape and balsa wood. You will be very happy with the results. More updates will be coming on Monday morning. Hoping to have intakes in the "E" model by then and the cheek cowls and diverters about ready for install on the "C" model.
You also might notice the stands the fuselages are sitting on now. These are available from BVM for all of their jets. They are a god send during construction as well as transport and field prep assembly. Check them out!!! http://www.bvmjets.com/Pages/cradle.htm
11-26-2011, 09:25 AM
#257
My Feedback: (13)
RE: BVM F-4 build
JR,
Amazing as always.
Interesting note on these diverter struts: The real reason they are in there in case a guy can't get his hook down and needs to take the rabbit catcher. The rabbit catcher was vertical strips of nylon that the plane plunged into and got stopped. If one of those strips got between the inlet and the fuse you can imagine the damage. These little supports are semi sharp and would cut those strips (in theory of course).
The interesting part comes when you see a Flogger (MiG 23/27) in person as they have the same thing. The Ruskies got a hold of a Phantom intake (probably from Vietnam) and copied it for the Flogger series. They had no idea what these little things did, but since the Americans put them on, they must be important and so they followed suit!
Dave
Amazing as always.
Interesting note on these diverter struts: The real reason they are in there in case a guy can't get his hook down and needs to take the rabbit catcher. The rabbit catcher was vertical strips of nylon that the plane plunged into and got stopped. If one of those strips got between the inlet and the fuse you can imagine the damage. These little supports are semi sharp and would cut those strips (in theory of course).
The interesting part comes when you see a Flogger (MiG 23/27) in person as they have the same thing. The Ruskies got a hold of a Phantom intake (probably from Vietnam) and copied it for the Flogger series. They had no idea what these little things did, but since the Americans put them on, they must be important and so they followed suit!
Dave
11-26-2011, 09:30 AM
#258
My Feedback: (60)
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Mooresville, NC
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RE: BVM F-4 build
Fun watching the Master at work 
Can't wait to see the finished product. I remember the Edwards F16 you did for me....what a beautiful Viper it was, too
S
Can't wait to see the finished product. I remember the Edwards F16 you did for me....what a beautiful Viper it was, too
S
11-26-2011, 09:58 AM
#259
RE: BVM F-4 build
Hey Spence, yep it was pretty sweet. I still have a Viper kit NIB here at the house. One of these days I will get it together. Small by today's standards but still the most acurate F-16 to date minus the Scale Jets F-16.
So I get this text for this whinny ass kid in Vegas; you guys know him as OzieF16. Dave text'd me and complains there isn't a picture of the finished product. More importantly he interupts my girldfriend singing in my ears (Sara Evans). What the heck is up with that. Morale of this story is don't do a build thread when you are building for a custoemr. They can get cranky!!! Remember the song posted earlier in the thread "I'm a Pilot"!
So anyways, here are a couple more pics. Intake seams are sanded and I am begining the gluing of those into the "E" model so they can dry for the rest of the day.
pic #1 show the great double uygly sitting in the cradle.
pic #2 and #3 show the mold line at the seam of the cheek cowls after sanding. You can see there is minimal sanding to get things flush. Next will be some light filler and clean up of the panel lines and you will think it was one part.
pic #4 shows a top view looking down on the monster intakes.
pic #5 shows the intakes with the seams sanded and ready to be installed into the "E" model.
So I get this text for this whinny ass kid in Vegas; you guys know him as OzieF16. Dave text'd me and complains there isn't a picture of the finished product. More importantly he interupts my girldfriend singing in my ears (Sara Evans). What the heck is up with that. Morale of this story is don't do a build thread when you are building for a custoemr. They can get cranky!!! Remember the song posted earlier in the thread "I'm a Pilot"!
So anyways, here are a couple more pics. Intake seams are sanded and I am begining the gluing of those into the "E" model so they can dry for the rest of the day.
pic #1 show the great double uygly sitting in the cradle.
pic #2 and #3 show the mold line at the seam of the cheek cowls after sanding. You can see there is minimal sanding to get things flush. Next will be some light filler and clean up of the panel lines and you will think it was one part.
pic #4 shows a top view looking down on the monster intakes.
pic #5 shows the intakes with the seams sanded and ready to be installed into the "E" model.
11-26-2011, 10:24 AM
#260
My Feedback: (13)
RE: BVM F-4 build
Geez man, my sister sings to you and you get mad at me!
Any pilot out there knows the phrase "maintenance minutes". I was trying to protect you from the others that only want finished products and not the process. Besides, I at least know what day it is!!
Guys, aren't you all glad there's a finish picture there?
Dave
Any pilot out there knows the phrase "maintenance minutes". I was trying to protect you from the others that only want finished products and not the process
. Besides, I at least know what day it is!!Guys, aren't you all glad there's a finish picture there?
Dave
11-27-2011, 02:44 PM
#265
RE: BVM F-4 build
Okay guys, more building done this weekend. Got the intakes installed as well as the main spine and the power hatch hold downs. So here we go.
pic #1 shows the intakes in position without glue. You will need to cut and sand the fron lips a bit for a good fit. All of this is covered in the instructions. You wiull notice the bypass taped in place. This is important for a couple of reasons I believe. One is will ensure proper alignment of the aft inlet openings as well as give you a longer moment arm to postiion the intakes and ensure they are centered in the fuselage.
pic #2 shows the inlet gauge to correctly position the intake height. This is built to the plans and is located about 1 inch from the aft of the intakes. This will be removed once the intakes are fully glued in place.
pic #3 not the best but it shows the intakes in place and the inner intake wall glued to the inlet diverter.
pic #4 shows the intakes going up to the front lips from the inside of the fuselage. You can see the carbon cloth I installed in the inlet cheek cowls earlier in the thread.
pic #1 shows the intakes in position without glue. You will need to cut and sand the fron lips a bit for a good fit. All of this is covered in the instructions. You wiull notice the bypass taped in place. This is important for a couple of reasons I believe. One is will ensure proper alignment of the aft inlet openings as well as give you a longer moment arm to postiion the intakes and ensure they are centered in the fuselage.
pic #2 shows the inlet gauge to correctly position the intake height. This is built to the plans and is located about 1 inch from the aft of the intakes. This will be removed once the intakes are fully glued in place.
pic #3 not the best but it shows the intakes in place and the inner intake wall glued to the inlet diverter.
pic #4 shows the intakes going up to the front lips from the inside of the fuselage. You can see the carbon cloth I installed in the inlet cheek cowls earlier in the thread.
11-27-2011, 02:53 PM
#266
RE: BVM F-4 build
Intake installation contiuned.
pic #1 shows the intakes at the front lip.
pic #2 shows the intake being glued in place. The glue I use is thick CA. As we know thick CA when used on two pieces of fiberglass will not ever let go. You will also notice some faint straight lines on the inlet lip near the outside corner. This is where I cut through teh inlet lip to allow the lip to be positioned better and more relaxed. I make these cuts about every 3/8" around the corner and every 1 - 1.5" on the vertical side. Glue the inlet in to every piece of the lip. Yo will find it will fit. Feel free to use a heat gun on occassion to soften the lip and allow you to position it better.
Once the inlet lips are glued in place I back up any gaps with epoxy and milled fiber. Don't gob it on thinking you will sand it off. Do this neatly and cleanly, let the filler do its job later.
pic #3 shows epoxying the inlet halves together at the aft end. Using Pacer 5 minute epoxy and some clamps put this together and then install the bypass once again. Let this dry. The bypass should then easily slip in place.
pic #1 shows the intakes at the front lip.
pic #2 shows the intake being glued in place. The glue I use is thick CA. As we know thick CA when used on two pieces of fiberglass will not ever let go. You will also notice some faint straight lines on the inlet lip near the outside corner. This is where I cut through teh inlet lip to allow the lip to be positioned better and more relaxed. I make these cuts about every 3/8" around the corner and every 1 - 1.5" on the vertical side. Glue the inlet in to every piece of the lip. Yo will find it will fit. Feel free to use a heat gun on occassion to soften the lip and allow you to position it better.
Once the inlet lips are glued in place I back up any gaps with epoxy and milled fiber. Don't gob it on thinking you will sand it off. Do this neatly and cleanly, let the filler do its job later.
pic #3 shows epoxying the inlet halves together at the aft end. Using Pacer 5 minute epoxy and some clamps put this together and then install the bypass once again. Let this dry. The bypass should then easily slip in place.
11-27-2011, 03:02 PM
#267
RE: BVM F-4 build
Next comes the main spine. Because of the large power hatch the main fuselage needs to be reinforced for flight. The spine is a carbon tube that mounts in front of and behind the hatch opening. It connects to the aft serve tray so this is built now as per the plans.
pic #1 and #2 show the aft servo tray positioned with the carbon tube running through it as well as the forward F5 former that it connects to. Any clearance required on the fuselage flanges should be noted and cleared. You do not want anythign touching this while setting it up.
pic #3 and #4 show the balsa sticks used to hold the servo tray and former in place while the aeropoxy will dry. Make these now before you get the glue out!
pic #1 and #2 show the aft servo tray positioned with the carbon tube running through it as well as the forward F5 former that it connects to. Any clearance required on the fuselage flanges should be noted and cleared. You do not want anythign touching this while setting it up.
pic #3 and #4 show the balsa sticks used to hold the servo tray and former in place while the aeropoxy will dry. Make these now before you get the glue out!
11-27-2011, 03:13 PM
#268
RE: BVM F-4 build
Spine installation continued.
pic #1 shows gluing the aluminum brackets that the carbon tube goes through to be secured to to the formers. These are predrilled at the factory and will be taped for a 4-40 through the carbon tube once everything is in place and dry. Glue the aluminum brackets to the former with Zap a Gap. Once cured then reinforce the glue joint with aeropoxy. Ensure you do not get any aeropoxy in the predrilled holes.
Now apply a bead of aeropoxy to both formers and install them and using the sticks we made earlier hold them in place. Make sure the carbon rod is centered in the fuselage.
pic #2 shows use putting the main power hatch in place and taping it down securely while the aeropoxy dires. We do not want anything moving while the aeropoxy sets up. I also ensure the canopy hatch is in place as well. You want to make sure the fuselage is not moving anywhere.
Let this dry over night.
pic #3 shows the afdt servo tray installed with teh carbon spine installed. Still have to drill and tape for the 4-40 bolt.
pic #4 shows the carbon spine installed and the forward F5 former.
pic #1 shows gluing the aluminum brackets that the carbon tube goes through to be secured to to the formers. These are predrilled at the factory and will be taped for a 4-40 through the carbon tube once everything is in place and dry. Glue the aluminum brackets to the former with Zap a Gap. Once cured then reinforce the glue joint with aeropoxy. Ensure you do not get any aeropoxy in the predrilled holes.
Now apply a bead of aeropoxy to both formers and install them and using the sticks we made earlier hold them in place. Make sure the carbon rod is centered in the fuselage.
pic #2 shows use putting the main power hatch in place and taping it down securely while the aeropoxy dires. We do not want anything moving while the aeropoxy sets up. I also ensure the canopy hatch is in place as well. You want to make sure the fuselage is not moving anywhere.
Let this dry over night.
pic #3 shows the afdt servo tray installed with teh carbon spine installed. Still have to drill and tape for the 4-40 bolt.
pic #4 shows the carbon spine installed and the forward F5 former.
11-27-2011, 03:27 PM
#269
RE: BVM F-4 build
Okay it is time to install the main power hatch hold downs. The real Phantom did not have visible hatch latches on it so out show piece shouldn't either. We will install a wire hold down system that is accesable through the intakes. The real Phantom had a probe that was called the Total Temp Probe for engine operation located in each intake in the center of the outboard wall. Well we can't make that work but we will emulate this probe at the 12 o'clock position.
pic #1 shows the wire and housing taped in place over the main hatch. Keep this wire as straight as possible. Any bends will make wire removal tough.
pic #2 shows the marks from where the pushrod housing was on top. We will transfer these marks to a hole on the inside of the hatch and fuselage.
pic #3 shows us making a notch in teh hatch and kevlar band for the housing to fit and slide through. You will want this housing to sit on the skin on the inner surface. So make sure you relieve anything in the way.
pic #4 shows the pushrod housing in place in the hatch. COntinue to work the holes in teh main fusleage flanges so the housing will slide through easily.
pic #1 shows the wire and housing taped in place over the main hatch. Keep this wire as straight as possible. Any bends will make wire removal tough.
pic #2 shows the marks from where the pushrod housing was on top. We will transfer these marks to a hole on the inside of the hatch and fuselage.
pic #3 shows us making a notch in teh hatch and kevlar band for the housing to fit and slide through. You will want this housing to sit on the skin on the inner surface. So make sure you relieve anything in the way.
pic #4 shows the pushrod housing in place in the hatch. COntinue to work the holes in teh main fusleage flanges so the housing will slide through easily.
11-27-2011, 03:33 PM
#270
RE: BVM F-4 build
Hatch continued!!
pic #1 shows the hole and pushrod housing in the top of hte intake. Make this hole at the apex of the intake.
pic #2 and #3 shows the housing and wire temporary installed in the fuselage and hatch.
pic #4 shows the housing and wire installed in the intake.
pic #5 shows the housing without the wire. Trim the housing as you fit so you will have minimal sanding when fully installed.
pic #1 shows the hole and pushrod housing in the top of hte intake. Make this hole at the apex of the intake.
pic #2 and #3 shows the housing and wire temporary installed in the fuselage and hatch.
pic #4 shows the housing and wire installed in the intake.
pic #5 shows the housing without the wire. Trim the housing as you fit so you will have minimal sanding when fully installed.
11-27-2011, 03:43 PM
#271
RE: BVM F-4 build
Last batch for the main power hatch. Almost done guys.
You will want ot come back and of course re-sand the fuse and hatch on the inner side so the expoy will stick. Once that is done let's do this.
pic #1 shows the main hatch taped in place and the wood sticks to ensure we have a perfect mold line when done. This is extremely important. Use plenty of sticks and do not hestitate to tape the hatch down in the center. Make sure to tape the other side down as well.
INstall the housing with teh wire in it for gluing everything in place. DO not do it without the wire in place. It will not work as well. Trust me on this one guys!
pic #2 shows us using some 5 minute epoxy and milled fiber to secure the housing at the aft point on the fuse and hatch openings. Do this at the front points as well. Also glue the pushrod housing in the intake with some thin and thick CA for right now.
pic #3 shows us cutting through the pushrod housing after the epoxy has cured. Of course remove the wire before you do this. Once you cut through and remove the tape and balsa sticks you will find the hatch removes easily.
No latchs are visible and the look is very clean. Repeat these steps for the opposite side. Only difference is when you are installing things and need the hatch to stay in place, use the wire pin and not tape on the side you just did. Once we come back and evercote the gap and sand everything you will be surprised at how tight the gap is.
That is it for now. More updates later in the week. Man taking pictures and posting here is tough and time consuming. Not a bad thing as it seems to be helping a few guys. I can't wait to see these monsters painted!!!
You will want ot come back and of course re-sand the fuse and hatch on the inner side so the expoy will stick. Once that is done let's do this.
pic #1 shows the main hatch taped in place and the wood sticks to ensure we have a perfect mold line when done. This is extremely important. Use plenty of sticks and do not hestitate to tape the hatch down in the center. Make sure to tape the other side down as well.
INstall the housing with teh wire in it for gluing everything in place. DO not do it without the wire in place. It will not work as well. Trust me on this one guys!
pic #2 shows us using some 5 minute epoxy and milled fiber to secure the housing at the aft point on the fuse and hatch openings. Do this at the front points as well. Also glue the pushrod housing in the intake with some thin and thick CA for right now.
pic #3 shows us cutting through the pushrod housing after the epoxy has cured. Of course remove the wire before you do this. Once you cut through and remove the tape and balsa sticks you will find the hatch removes easily.
No latchs are visible and the look is very clean. Repeat these steps for the opposite side. Only difference is when you are installing things and need the hatch to stay in place, use the wire pin and not tape on the side you just did. Once we come back and evercote the gap and sand everything you will be surprised at how tight the gap is.
That is it for now. More updates later in the week. Man taking pictures and posting here is tough and time consuming. Not a bad thing as it seems to be helping a few guys. I can't wait to see these monsters painted!!!
11-27-2011, 03:52 PM
#272
RE: BVM F-4 build
ORIGINAL: John Redman
Screw being green Dave. Get a new blade and boost the economy!!
Okay time for more updates. Roger was curious on how to cut the main doors out of the wing, mainly the curved edge. Yea this sucks!!! Especially when it is made by the purple company. Plenty of serious carbon for strength makes the cutting difficult, but as we know makes the end process last forever!! Gotta love US made quality!!
So I taped the main door back in place to show these basic steps. I did not even think of this picture when I was cutting. Good question Roger adn here is the process.
pic #1 shows the use of 3M 1/4 fine line vinyl tape used around the edge. Because I am right handed I will outline the left edge. This way I can watch the blade follow the tape and guide it through the cut the entire time. I have found masking tape doesn't work as good as the blue vinyl tape.
pic #2 shows the blade in position and the cut being made. Go slow and work hte cut. The blade can follow the tape without much hassle. End result is a cut line of about .004'' - .006''. Easy to clean up and have a nice fit in the end.
Screw being green Dave. Get a new blade and boost the economy!!
Okay time for more updates. Roger was curious on how to cut the main doors out of the wing, mainly the curved edge. Yea this sucks!!! Especially when it is made by the purple company. Plenty of serious carbon for strength makes the cutting difficult, but as we know makes the end process last forever!! Gotta love US made quality!!
So I taped the main door back in place to show these basic steps. I did not even think of this picture when I was cutting. Good question Roger adn here is the process.
pic #1 shows the use of 3M 1/4 fine line vinyl tape used around the edge. Because I am right handed I will outline the left edge. This way I can watch the blade follow the tape and guide it through the cut the entire time. I have found masking tape doesn't work as good as the blue vinyl tape.
pic #2 shows the blade in position and the cut being made. Go slow and work hte cut. The blade can follow the tape without much hassle. End result is a cut line of about .004'' - .006''. Easy to clean up and have a nice fit in the end.
If you have any tips feel free to state them here as well. Don't be afraid to offer up some guidance even if you think your idea might not be the best one out there. It very well may spawn a new process for all of us to build on.
Roger
11-27-2011, 04:36 PM
#273
RE: BVM F-4 build
Hey Roger,
Yes, always the patience thing; especially when cutting through that tenacious carbon fiber.
The toothpicks work great as well. With my fumbly fingers as I get older I found the balsa sticks a bit easier.
Never thought of the toothpicks for control surface alignment. Awesome idea sir!!!!! I can see that now coming to life on this build. Thanks for the tip!!!!!!!
Yes, always the patience thing; especially when cutting through that tenacious carbon fiber.
The toothpicks work great as well. With my fumbly fingers as I get older I found the balsa sticks a bit easier.
Never thought of the toothpicks for control surface alignment. Awesome idea sir!!!!! I can see that now coming to life on this build. Thanks for the tip!!!!!!!
12-05-2011, 06:20 AM
#274
RE: BVM F-4 build
Hey guys, I have spent the past week working on selling my kit collection that is listed here on RCU. Trying to build funds for a new used van for next season.
Anyways, I got back in the shop last night and started bringing the "C" model up to the point of the "E" model. Will be gluing the inlet cheek cowls on the "C" model tomorrow night and then intakes and the hatch system. So next group of photos should be next weekend is my guess.
Anyways, I got back in the shop last night and started bringing the "C" model up to the point of the "E" model. Will be gluing the inlet cheek cowls on the "C" model tomorrow night and then intakes and the hatch system. So next group of photos should be next weekend is my guess.
12-06-2011, 07:10 PM
#275
My Feedback: (13)
RE: BVM F-4 build
Ok guys, probaly time for antoher 'there I was' story. Again, if anyone has other stories to post, please do so. I'll keep leaking these to keep the thread's 'human interest' side trucking, but I'm betting there are those of you sitting out there thinking 'when I went North in my Phantom/Thud/Intruder/etc...'. Please share the days of flying the Vietnam-era heavy metal. Those of us 'snot-nosed kids' flying 'electric' jets love it, and I know everyone else does as well!
#6 Red Flag, February 1978, Nellis AFB, F-106 Chase. Where’d who go?
One day my dad and his WSO were on a single ship ride to hit a couple of actual F-86s parked on the end of a mock runway in the Red Flag training area with six live 500# bombs (Mk-82s).
As they droned up the northwest edge of the area with air traffic control (ATC) prior to entering the area they realized there was a single ship F-106 several miles behind them also talking to ATC. It was quite possible this F-106 might be the “enemy air” that was supposed to be defending their target area.
Once my dad reached the entry point for the area he decided to stay on the ATC freq as they descended to their run-in altitude (500’ was the plan). Sure enough, that F-106 entered at the same point and started the cat/mouse game.
The F-106 needed to get a heat-seeking missile shot on the Phantom (or it could take a simulated nuke-tipped Geenie…but that would be a bit overkill). So, it was quite a low level wild dance as dad kept the power/speed up, maneuvered to avoid being shot, and tried to stay generally headed towards the target. He couldn’t just come up to one of the many ridge lines and fly over it since that would highlight him against the sky for too long risking a heat-seeker shot. So, as he approached a ridge he’d sharply turn either 90 degrees left or right to parallel the ridge, and then roll over the top of the ridge with Double Ugly on her back pulling back down the far side of the ridgeline. In this way, the ‘enemy’ couldn’t get his “sky shot”(the missiles in those days really struggled with adverse IR backgrounds (i.e. the desert)). This went on for miles and miles…jink, jink, jink, turn/roll/pull. Remember through this time that they were carrying 3000#’s of High Explosive (HE) love!
The attack they were going to do on this airfield was a “Pop.” This type of attack was designed to minimize exposure to ground fire in the target area and get you on a desired dive angle for the end-game weapons’ parameters. So, you’d come in directly at the target, then turn to intersect a tangent to a circle a fixed distance from the target (MAP, Minimum Attack Perimeter). If done right on the practice range at home, it worked well, but was still a dangerous maneuver since it was a sharp pull up with burners cooking to maintain energy while screaming uphill, heavy, to the pull-down altitude at which point you’d do an aggressive roll over the top (inverted) and pull sharply down to the final attack angle.
With all the maneuvering and navigation equipment being what it was in that day, he was challenged to enter the pop-up at exactly the correct point at the right speed (remember, the F-106 was all over him), range, and heading. Sure enough, there was the target directly in front of him……closer than it should be….damn! Dad pulled hard right to try reestablishing the Minimum Attack Perimeter with the F-106 overshooting past him. Dad waited a moment and then started his pull up. Near the top when he started rolling onto his back to line up with the target, the F-106 again shot past him this time going into the vertical.
Unfortunately, after all this maneuvering and fixation, he was way slow going over the top. The WSO was screaming “BURNERS, BURNERS, BURNERS” but the throttles had been rammed to the stops a long time ago. Picture being upside down, in a fifty five thousand pound war plane shuddering in the pre-stall buffet, with an ‘enemy’ zinging by all the time loaded with six HE bombs trying to press an attack! Until you’ve flown fighters, and been in a similar situation, it’s tough to fully comprehend how task-saturating an environment like that can be. Needless to say, the sterile bombing range is task-saturating enough without trying to throw a tactical scenario in on top of it.
Dropping a bomb on target is a tricky set of balanced parameters when there are no electronics involved (This is his way of subtly jabbing at us electric-jet generation guys). You have to have the right dive angle, the right G loading, the right airspeed, the right bombsight position, and the right release altitude all SIMULTANEOUSLY (talk about predictive thinking). All these parameters interacted with each other. He loved bombing since he was a natural at solving “compensating errors” so that he could win quarters on the bombing missions (and the Top Gun honors). The standard bet in most fighter squadrons (USAF anyway) is a quarter a bomb, and often times 50 cents for CEA (average miss distance). Most guys had little pill bottles stuffed away in their desks with quarters in them, and in the debrief you bust out the bottles and fill or empty as appropriate. Back to the compensating errors: for example, if you were slow, you needed to aim long and press beneath the planned release altitude by a bit, if you were too steep you needed to drop high or slow, etc… In this case, he was way too slow with not enough altitude to compensate (3000# of bombs didn’t help), burners cooking already, and he was too close to the target. So, he compensated the errors by aiming long, pressing the altitude just a bit, and deciding to keep the burners going and not pull up but to keep running to get outside of the fragmentation envelope of the bombs…no more thought for the F-106 still pressing his attack.
He dropped the all six bombs and kept booking with a slight descent at full power to a least 2500 feet away (bomb frag envelope) before turning back to see the explosion. They laid all 3000#s directly on the two F-86s sitting on the end of the runway. Fortunately or unfortunately, they never saw the F-106 again.
When dad and his WSO were relaxing back in the squadron room at Nellis, a pilot in a bright orange flight suit (Air Defense guy…ie F-106) stormed in and demanded to know who had dropped live bombs on a couple of Sabers today. Dad stepped forward and was clearly told by the 106 pilot that he’d never got a shot on dad throughout the run into the target and he was DEFINITELY surprised while pushing his air to air attack in the Pop when the whole world exploded in front of him. He had no idea that my dad was carrying live bombs!!
#6 Red Flag, February 1978, Nellis AFB, F-106 Chase. Where’d who go?
One day my dad and his WSO were on a single ship ride to hit a couple of actual F-86s parked on the end of a mock runway in the Red Flag training area with six live 500# bombs (Mk-82s).
As they droned up the northwest edge of the area with air traffic control (ATC) prior to entering the area they realized there was a single ship F-106 several miles behind them also talking to ATC. It was quite possible this F-106 might be the “enemy air” that was supposed to be defending their target area.
Once my dad reached the entry point for the area he decided to stay on the ATC freq as they descended to their run-in altitude (500’ was the plan). Sure enough, that F-106 entered at the same point and started the cat/mouse game.
The F-106 needed to get a heat-seeking missile shot on the Phantom (or it could take a simulated nuke-tipped Geenie…but that would be a bit overkill). So, it was quite a low level wild dance as dad kept the power/speed up, maneuvered to avoid being shot, and tried to stay generally headed towards the target. He couldn’t just come up to one of the many ridge lines and fly over it since that would highlight him against the sky for too long risking a heat-seeker shot. So, as he approached a ridge he’d sharply turn either 90 degrees left or right to parallel the ridge, and then roll over the top of the ridge with Double Ugly on her back pulling back down the far side of the ridgeline. In this way, the ‘enemy’ couldn’t get his “sky shot”(the missiles in those days really struggled with adverse IR backgrounds (i.e. the desert)). This went on for miles and miles…jink, jink, jink, turn/roll/pull. Remember through this time that they were carrying 3000#’s of High Explosive (HE) love!
The attack they were going to do on this airfield was a “Pop.” This type of attack was designed to minimize exposure to ground fire in the target area and get you on a desired dive angle for the end-game weapons’ parameters. So, you’d come in directly at the target, then turn to intersect a tangent to a circle a fixed distance from the target (MAP, Minimum Attack Perimeter). If done right on the practice range at home, it worked well, but was still a dangerous maneuver since it was a sharp pull up with burners cooking to maintain energy while screaming uphill, heavy, to the pull-down altitude at which point you’d do an aggressive roll over the top (inverted) and pull sharply down to the final attack angle.
With all the maneuvering and navigation equipment being what it was in that day, he was challenged to enter the pop-up at exactly the correct point at the right speed (remember, the F-106 was all over him), range, and heading. Sure enough, there was the target directly in front of him……closer than it should be….damn! Dad pulled hard right to try reestablishing the Minimum Attack Perimeter with the F-106 overshooting past him. Dad waited a moment and then started his pull up. Near the top when he started rolling onto his back to line up with the target, the F-106 again shot past him this time going into the vertical.
Unfortunately, after all this maneuvering and fixation, he was way slow going over the top. The WSO was screaming “BURNERS, BURNERS, BURNERS” but the throttles had been rammed to the stops a long time ago. Picture being upside down, in a fifty five thousand pound war plane shuddering in the pre-stall buffet, with an ‘enemy’ zinging by all the time loaded with six HE bombs trying to press an attack! Until you’ve flown fighters, and been in a similar situation, it’s tough to fully comprehend how task-saturating an environment like that can be. Needless to say, the sterile bombing range is task-saturating enough without trying to throw a tactical scenario in on top of it.
Dropping a bomb on target is a tricky set of balanced parameters when there are no electronics involved (This is his way of subtly jabbing at us electric-jet generation guys). You have to have the right dive angle, the right G loading, the right airspeed, the right bombsight position, and the right release altitude all SIMULTANEOUSLY (talk about predictive thinking). All these parameters interacted with each other. He loved bombing since he was a natural at solving “compensating errors” so that he could win quarters on the bombing missions (and the Top Gun honors). The standard bet in most fighter squadrons (USAF anyway) is a quarter a bomb, and often times 50 cents for CEA (average miss distance). Most guys had little pill bottles stuffed away in their desks with quarters in them, and in the debrief you bust out the bottles and fill or empty as appropriate. Back to the compensating errors: for example, if you were slow, you needed to aim long and press beneath the planned release altitude by a bit, if you were too steep you needed to drop high or slow, etc… In this case, he was way too slow with not enough altitude to compensate (3000# of bombs didn’t help), burners cooking already, and he was too close to the target. So, he compensated the errors by aiming long, pressing the altitude just a bit, and deciding to keep the burners going and not pull up but to keep running to get outside of the fragmentation envelope of the bombs…no more thought for the F-106 still pressing his attack.
He dropped the all six bombs and kept booking with a slight descent at full power to a least 2500 feet away (bomb frag envelope) before turning back to see the explosion. They laid all 3000#s directly on the two F-86s sitting on the end of the runway. Fortunately or unfortunately, they never saw the F-106 again.
When dad and his WSO were relaxing back in the squadron room at Nellis, a pilot in a bright orange flight suit (Air Defense guy…ie F-106) stormed in and demanded to know who had dropped live bombs on a couple of Sabers today. Dad stepped forward and was clearly told by the 106 pilot that he’d never got a shot on dad throughout the run into the target and he was DEFINITELY surprised while pushing his air to air attack in the Pop when the whole world exploded in front of him. He had no idea that my dad was carrying live bombs!!