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  1. #1
    Eddie P's Avatar
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    Finally running out of Powermax - Coleman Butane/Propane mix?

    My last bottle of Powermax is waiting to be used. There is NO Powermax that I'm aware of in my area, I've called and looked. I'll probably toast my supply off before the end of the year. I have a semi-typical gas start setup for my Wren SS. But my tank is NOT an on board tank, it's an off board one that I seal off with a on/off valve when filling or removing from the 3mm festo tap line in the jet. I suppose I could change out for a propane setup if need be I suppose. Being that I'm lazy and not fond of wasting money and time if that can be avoided, I'd sure like to find a no changeover switch for starting fuel/gas.

    Today I bought a new canister of Coleman Butane/Propane mix fuel. I was hoping it would be a straight change over from Powermax. I tried to fill my off board start tank to see what the difference would be. I noticed I didn't get a typical spurt of starting gas and liquid like I do with Powermax, as it fills the tank. It may be that the nipple requires more of a press than what my typical Powermax nipple will do, or it may be that there is more Propane than Butane and I might need a trigger valve for a constant flow during the start cycle, I'm not sure yet. When you shake the can, it has liquid in there and feels a lot like Powermax but with no clunk line. I held it upside down to see if some of the liquid could be dispersed when using the nipple to fill my start tank, but nothing so far.

    Anyone using this canister for starts? What is the solution to getting the fuel inside the start tank, or if no start tank is used, getting some 3mm festo line connected to a valve and working it that way?

    See photo....
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    Eddie P - NOT sponsored - I pay the bills of hobby manufacturers with my purchases - Free to evaluate products honestly

  2. #2
    JackD's Avatar
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    RE: Finally running out of Powermax - Coleman Butane/Propane mix?

    Try upside down. Powermax has a clunk, but the one you got doesn't.

    We have used these for a long time (no powermax available in venezuela) and they work perfectly.

    give it a shot
    Jack
    Jack Gerardo Diaz
    BVM Rep, Team Horizon, Team Jet Central

  3. #3
    KC36330's Avatar
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    RE: Finally running out of Powermax - Coleman Butane/Propane mix?

    IIRC the can pictured above does NOT have a clunk and you have to hold it upside down during a fill.

  4. #4
    Eddie P's Avatar
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    RE: Finally running out of Powermax - Coleman Butane/Propane mix?

    Are you guys using the standard Powermax tried and true, modified Festo nipple to 4mm line? Like this? I just tried it with the tank upside down again, no real flow into the off board start tank - I'm wondering if I'm getting the valve fully depressed in the canister to get the fluid moving. Did you guys do anything I'm not doing in the adapter process - from tank to 4mm Festo line?

    PS - looked at my off board start tank contraption again, and I'm using 4mm line and standard festo nipple into the tank. I switch over to 3mm for the Wren tubing at the hookup tap in the jet down stream of my off board gas tank, via a 4mm-3mm Festo adapter. So I'm all 4mm like my Jetcat setups. This clarification is just in case my first post caused some head scratching when I mentioned 3mm line and Powermax.
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    Eddie P - NOT sponsored - I pay the bills of hobby manufacturers with my purchases - Free to evaluate products honestly

  5. #5
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    RE: Finally running out of Powermax - Coleman Butane/Propane mix?

    Eddie,

    What you need is a "Propane Starting Gas valve 4mm: $US 15" from AltecareRC http://www.altecare.com/festo.htm (towards the bottom of the page).

    I've switched all of my engines, Jetcat and JC, to off-board starting gas using the same containers you are trying to use, with the Altecare can fitting. It works great! You can also use it to fill onboard tanks. Simply turn the can upside-down and then open the can valve and you should get flow into the tank.

    The reason you are not getting flow with the standard Jetcat fitting on those cans is because the can's builtin valve is different. You can modify the fittings that work on a Powermax can by drilling a *small* hole (a BVM tire screw drill bit works well) through the part of the fitting that inserts into the can's valve from side-to-side, close to the end of the fitting. This will allow the gas to go into the sides of the fitting when you press it into the can.

    The easiest thing is to get the Altecare valve though...

    Bob
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  6. #6

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    RE: Finally running out of Powermax - Coleman Butane/Propane mix?

    Bob is right on with the Jet Cat fitting. I ran into the same problem with the squatty round Coleman Butane Propane cans. I took a piece of brass tubing that fit snug into the caps internal 'O' ring and put a 1/4" long slit in the brass tube. With a check valve in the supply line to the onboard tank I simply push the brass tube into the propane/butane can and it fills my onboard supply tank. Looking at the Altecare valve I see one big benefit. You don't get frozen fingers like you do with the Jet Cat style system.
    John

  7. #7
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    RE: Finally running out of Powermax - Coleman Butane/Propane mix?

    I am using those bottles also. I cut two small slits in the copper tubing, then pushed in that little piece of copper and made a tab that sits in the middle, that comes out of my easy filler I bought from dreamworks, I hold that bottle upside down and viola!!

    Raf
    RAVjets Demo Team. All We Do Is Fly.

  8. #8
    Eddie P's Avatar
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    RE: Finally running out of Powermax - Coleman Butane/Propane mix?

    I knew there had to be some sort of detail that was the difference in getting the gas to flow. I will get started on making an adapter and may also order the one from Altecare to have a more civilized long term solution. I'd like to have a quick and dirty work around for a jet rally this weekend though - just in case I toast off my last bottle of Powermax. Well, let's hope I toast it off. That means I'll be getting a lot of flying in, if that happens.

    Thanks again guys!!
    Eddie P - NOT sponsored - I pay the bills of hobby manufacturers with my purchases - Free to evaluate products honestly

  9. #9
    Dr Honda's Avatar
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    RE: Finally running out of Powermax - Coleman Butane/Propane mix?

    I'm new to the turbine part of this hobby... and I've seen threads about power max no longer being available... but is there a reason you can't just use regular propane in your engines?? At Wal-Mart, a 2 pack of 2Lb bottles is only $5... and a propane adapter from Todd is only $24. I know if you hold the bottle upside down... you get liquid, and that would fill your on board tank.

    Sorry if that's dumb... but I'm trying to understand about the other engines. (I use regular propane in my AT-180)
    Tony
    Owner of A&L Motorsports, LLC

  10. #10
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    RE: Finally running out of Powermax - Coleman Butane/Propane mix?


    ORIGINAL: Dr Honda

    I'm new to the turbine part of this hobby... and I've seen threads about power max no longer being available... but is there a reason you can't just use regular propane in your engines?? At Wal-Mart, a 2 pack of 2Lb bottles is only $5... and a propane adapter from Todd is only $24. I know if you hold the bottle upside down... you get liquid, and that would fill your on board tank.

    Sorry if that's dumb... but I'm trying to understand about the other engines. (I use regular propane in my AT-180)
    Tony,

    You generally can not use straight Propane in onboard tanks because the partial pressure of Propane at room temperature is about 150 psi (I believe) and it blows the hoses off of the fittings. A Propane/Butane mix has a lower partial pressure and avoids that problem. You *can* use straight Propane for off-board gas, but you generally need to use a pressure regulator like the one Todd sells. It is interesting though that the description says it works for onboard tank fills - as soon as you get liquid into the onboard tank though, you have the high pressure problem, and I *have* seen straight Propane blow the tubing itself apart when it was hot outside...

    Anyway, if you get the Altecare valve (or modify a Powermax one), the Propane/Butane mixes are available all over the place for camping purposes and are not that expensive...

    Bob

  11. #11
    KC36330's Avatar
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    RE: Finally running out of Powermax - Coleman Butane/Propane mix?

    Tony,

    propane is too high a pressure if used onboard, it'll burst the lines. JetCat's fire up first time, every time on propane, some other turbine brands aren't designed for it and it causes warping problems due to uneven heat in the CC.

  12. #12
    Eddie P's Avatar
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    RE: Finally running out of Powermax - Coleman Butane/Propane mix?

    I just bought an Altecare 4mm Festo adapter valve fitting for my Butane/Propane tanks as shown on the picture above. These canisters are cheaper than the old Powermax cans at $4 a piece, and I see them everywhere. Now that I have a $15 fitting for it that adapts to 4mm Festo tubing, there will be no dramas or worries.

    I made a quick and dirty attempt at a temporary adapter just to see if it works. I drilled two very smalls hole in a plastic Festo line connector near the tip (like the ones we modify for Powermax). I think it's working OK - I'll try it at the field later this week before I run out of Powermax to just see how well it works. Next week I should have the nice machined Altecare adapter valve - and at that point all this fiddling around will be a memory. But a "searchable" RCU memory for those who have yet to run out of their Powermax stock!!
    Eddie P - NOT sponsored - I pay the bills of hobby manufacturers with my purchases - Free to evaluate products honestly

  13. #13
    Dr Honda's Avatar
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    RE: Finally running out of Powermax - Coleman Butane/Propane mix?

    Thanks for the info. After I typed my question... I was thinking it may be a pressure thing.
    Tony
    Owner of A&L Motorsports, LLC

  14. #14
    rcpete347's Avatar
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    RE: Finally running out of Powermax - Coleman Butane/Propane mix?

    E-bay has some power max, a little pricey though.

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Coleman-...item336baa741d

    Rcpete
    Rcpete has all 1/6th scale pilots, BB-F86, F-4,F-14, F-15, F-16,F-18, F-22, Thunderbirds, Aviators, Female Pilots, Mr Bean, Hot Toys, Tom Cruise, Val Kilmer.

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  15. #15
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    RE: Finally running out of Powermax - Coleman Butane/Propane mix?

    Eddie,
    No need for an off board tank contraption. Just use the can with the valve as the off board tank direct to the plane.
    Mark P
    An Expert has made every mistake - A Master has made every mistake twice

  16. #16
    Eddie P's Avatar
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    RE: Finally running out of Powermax - Coleman Butane/Propane mix?


    ORIGINAL: causeitflies

    Eddie,
    No need for an off board tank contraption. Just use the can with the valve as the off board tank direct to the plane.
    Thanks for the heads up, that's what I was also thinking myself. Though I have my tank and manual rate valve set up perfectly for Powermax, I'm sure I can get used to what setting on the Altecare / Coleman valve I'll need for good starts straight from the source to the engine line.
    Eddie P - NOT sponsored - I pay the bills of hobby manufacturers with my purchases - Free to evaluate products honestly

  17. #17
    vega406's Avatar
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    RE: Finally running out of Powermax - Coleman Butane/Propane mix?

    i had bought 12 case,s and sold most of them at Kentcuky Jets and Best in the west i will buy the remaining 20 cases and bring them to Speed World providing they are still avaliable..BUT i will tell you all of the methods and cans talked about in this thread have been working just fine i will go that way when all Promax are gone..i also found that the old clip on type valve used on small freon cans for your car fit on the can pictured in the first post listed above and you screw the valve down accordingly..i got rid of mine for someone to use who tried this and he gave me his powermax trigger
    Bill

  18. #18
    causeitflies's Avatar
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    RE: Finally running out of Powermax - Coleman Butane/Propane mix?


    ORIGINAL: vega406

    i had bought 12 case,s and sold most of them at Kentcuky Jets and Best in the west i will buy the remaining 20 cases and bring them to Speed World providing they are still avaliable..BUT i will tell you all of the methods and cans talked about in this thread have been working just fine i will go that way when all Promax are gone..i also found that the old clip on type valve used on small freon cans for your car fit on the can pictured in the first post listed above and you screw the valve down accordingly..i got rid of mine for someone to use who tried this and he gave me his powermax trigger
    You mean like this?
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    Mark P
    An Expert has made every mistake - A Master has made every mistake twice

  19. #19
    vega406's Avatar
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    RE: Finally running out of Powermax - Coleman Butane/Propane mix?

    Yes that is it i have a few old powermax cans i couldn,t get propane out of and that did it for me...i had it at BITW and tried it on the other cans cause his top ring was just a tad bigger for the trigger he had and we traded..i don,t know if he tested it on his jet but you should be able to regulate pressure like many people useing the Walmart bought Coleman cans
    Bill

  20. #20

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    RE: Finally running out of Powermax - Coleman Butane/Propane mix?

    I am the one that traded with you vega, I have used it multiple times with Colman Campingaz and it works great. Just remember you still have to hold the canister upside down to fill. Thanks again.
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  21. #21

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    RE: Finally running out of Powermax - Coleman Butane/Propane mix?

    anyone use the coleman adaptor?

    [link]http://r1.coleman.com/ProductImages/Regular/9705-725_500.jpg[/link]

  22. #22

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    RE: Finally running out of Powermax - Coleman Butane/Propane mix?


    This is what I do.

    http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_11...m.htm#11135977

    I just keep refilling my PowerMax cans over and over.

    Clay

  23. #23
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    RE: Finally running out of Powermax - Coleman Butane/Propane mix?

    This is what i use get them from Wren
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    George

  24. #24

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    RE: Finally running out of Powermax - Coleman Butane/Propane mix?

    wren unit looks nice. I ended up cutting one of a portable stove. the factory terminated metal line is 3mm.

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  25. #25
    gooseF22's Avatar
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    RE: Finally running out of Powermax - Coleman Butane/Propane mix?


    ORIGINAL: Dr Honda

    I'm new to the turbine part of this hobby... and I've seen threads about power max no longer being available... but is there a reason you can't just use regular propane in your engines?? At Wal-Mart, a 2 pack of 2Lb bottles is only $5... and a propane adapter from Todd is only $24. I know if you hold the bottle upside down... you get liquid, and that would fill your on board tank.

    Sorry if that's dumb... but I'm trying to understand about the other engines. (I use regular propane in my AT-180)
    Yes it works fine.. I have used it a long time.. I also use an in line air compressor regulator set to 40psi, and adjust all my jets to that pressure level.. I get much more consistent starts..no onboard tanks needed.. just plug and go.. I use the Wren needle valve going into the motor as well, but it works on the modulating valve types like Jetcat..
    Goose
    Wren Turbines USA, Fromeco Avionics, JetiUSA Flight Team, www.Espritmodel.com www.demonaero.com


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