damagedgoodes

After advice please guys. Today I destroyed my right wing on my Falcon 120/ Kingtech K-80 (poor decision making/dumbass) and now I'm looking to replace the airframe. The destruction was a crap landing too fast/a bit of downwind and trying to get it on the bitumen strip at the last second that resulted in several bounces. That aside the Falcon has done a great job as a trainer (some would say obviously not after that landing...) and I'm looking at options. I've always liked the Panther and I'm a bit time poor to build the Ziroli version so I'm wondering if anyone out there had/has a PST Panther with a turbine around the size/weight/thrust of the K-80. Also if you have the Panther what you thought about PST's retracts and hydraulic brakes.

If anyone else has recommendations of another airframe around the K-80 I'm all ears but I'm a bit limited as my field has a bitumen runway 8 meters wide by 120 meters long (about 390ft). The rest of the field around the runway is extremely rough with dirt and clumps of buffel grass that rip retracts out of just about anything so landing on the strip is imperative. Most of the year it's hot (90-110F) and elevation is 2000ft. Whilst I'd love an F-16 I just don't think that I'd get it back on the strip perfectly every time. My preference is for something scale (hence the Panhter) but practicality says a sport model will be a better choice. Other's I'm looking at are the PST Reaction X and the Shulman Turbinator. Of course I could do another Falcon but I'm wanting a change. CARF says the Ultra Flash will fly on a 70N turbine but I haven't seen anyone here on RCU do one with less than a 120.

Cheers for any help,

Dave

luv2flyrc

My Feedback: (6)

Dave, jmho as I have a PST Panther that was my first jet. It would fly perfectly fine on a K-80, I had a P-70 in it, flew fine with that but, struggled to take off on grass, pavement was no problem. You should be able to get it down on your 400 foot strip. Ours is 300ft and I can get it in there although I went through a learning curve and have bounced it, knocked off the gear , etc on a few "forced" landings.

I changed from the PST struts/ wheels to Behotec ones. The PST struts are a poor design and after replacing parts on them a few times ( which were expensive and had to be shpped from Thailand) I went to the Behotecs.

The strut would bend at axel joint on anything less than a perfectly executed landing. I hated the hydralic brake system, it worked fine but, as stated, I had some gear problems early on and everytime I had to remove the gear for repairs, I had to drain and bleed the bloody hydralic system. What a PITA. Switched to air when I went to the Behotecs.

If I was ordering new, I'd confirm that Robarts Ziroli panther retracts would fit and then go for those. Actually, I probably wouldn't buy one again. I know you want a scale ship but, I'd go with a CARF UF , set of Prolink retracts and have a blast on your 400ft strip. The UF is very rugged and can take some learning without being damaged.

Mike

damagedgoodes

Thanks Mike,

Would you say that both models would come in at about the same finished weight, and would the CARF UF be a bit anaemic on the K-80 in you're opinion? Also do you think the UF is worth $1000 extra over the Panther (Panther is $1600 with exhaust and UF is $2600) for basic airframes. I haven't seen any other jets other than my Falcon in the flesh (I'm the only turbine flyer here) and the nearest club with jets is about 1000 miles away so RCU is the next best thing for advice/recommendations. Cheers.

Dave

luv2flyrc

My Feedback: (6)

Hi Dave,

My Panther is just under 25lbs, I have a classic Flash, not the Ultra but, it's 21lbs with a Rabbit 100 in it. Yes, I do think the Flash is worth the extra $1k, it's a much better quality airframe with better engineering.

You'll definately get more performance in the Flash than with the Panther. The K-80 will likely push the Flash at about, 165-175mph, the Panther around 120mph. One other thing I forgot to mention about the Panther is it has a silly little 2L fuel tank so, safe flights are around the 5min mark. The Flash with both main and wing tank can carry a lot more fuel, with a K-80 you'll get 10 min flights.

Mike

Helijet

Two totally different aircraft. Having sold and flown many PST Panthers over the years I still remain impressed with the airframe. I currently have three. You cannot compare the UFlash with the Panther. Totally different designs and flight performances. Both will fly fine off a short strip with the engine you have chosen. As for quality, I must disagree with the posters statement. The PST Panthers are very well engineered and constructed for an Arf. I have an UltraFlash with a P100 so have direct experience. I do agree on the struts, they are scale as offered by PST and are not designed to take a lot of hard landings. Go simple with Robart.

Any other questions just fire away.

PaulD

My Feedback: (39)

There are several of these around here. As Dean says they are a well built kit but go with some alternate gear.

I have seen them fly with as little as a Pst600 and P7o's as well as the K80. The comment about small fuel tank is correct and the one I have seen with a K80 had added an aux tank to boost the flight time. I have flown this one myself and they are really docile planes. I would say easier to land than a Flash. The only issue they have is lacking vertical fin so when you get it dirty it has a bit of a "swagger" but it's something you just have to get used to. Will get really slow and still not drop a wing.

The concern I would have is what's your run-off area like? With 400 ft you are going to overshoot from time to time.

PaulD

luv2flyrc

My Feedback: (6)

Didn't mean to imply the PST is poorly engineered, just that the CARF is definately a better engineered product. Examples of area's that could be improved on the Panther are the main gear struts ( as already ageed upon), the nose gear mount and former. The nose gear mount will break far too easily in a botched landing where u bounce on the nose gear ( even mildly). My former had to be cut and adjusted to allow full retraction of the nose gear. Also, there's nothing to keep the nose gear straight when it retracts so, it can oftern turn and jam. I didn't like the fuel tank being held in with elastics, Didn't like the rudder servo location, although its usable , it doesn't allow for perfect geometry.

There's a ton of small things like that wrong with it, that aren't necessarily deal breakers btt, these are the kinds of things that I'm talking about when I say it's not on the same engineering level as the CARF.

I do have to politely disagree with Paul tho, I find the Flash much easier to land

Mike

DrYankum

My Feedback: (11)

I'm kinda in the same boat. I'm presently flying a Modelbau Tornado with a K-80. I've got about 25 or 30 flights on it and it's getting pretty ratty looking. I"m looking for an airframe to put the K-80 in. I'm working on the installation of a Classic Flash witha P120 SX. I will probably dial down the thrust on the 120 initially so that it's not a huge leap from the Tornado. I am considering a PST Reaction for the K-80, but as I am wondering whether the P-120 will be too fast for me initially, I'm wondering whether the K-80 is too little for the Reaction. It's a bigger and heavier airframe than the Tornado.

Downwind3Zero

My Feedback: (10)

Hi Dean or Panther owners,
Do you know where I can get a pipe and fuel tank for the Panther besides from Thailand. They want $110 shipping plus 7% PayPal for the $140 pipe and $80 tank.
Much appreciated, Chris

luv2flyrc

My Feedback: (6)

You can get a pipe from Tam Jets. Don't know about the tank, although, I can tell you the stock tank is very small @ 2L so, if you can find a replacement somewhere else go with that.

I needed parts for my panther's retracts a few times and found PST's parts and shipping to be ridiculous prices compared to others. And since when did paypal start charging 7%? I've since changed the retracts over to non-scale Behotecs and never had a problem since. If I do, the German made parts are half the price!

Mike

Downwind3Zero

My Feedback: (10)

Thanks Mike! I asked them about the tank volume and they quoted me 2.5L?
Their charges for shipping are insane - they quoted me $100 for shipping the cockpit last january and the PayPal fee then was 5%!?
This is my second Panther, the first one was EDF, this one turbine. Both have Robart retracts converted to electric by DownandLocked. Work great!
Chris

luv2flyrc

My Feedback: (6)

It's possible they have a new larger tank? Mine is circa 2008 and it is only 2L.

I ordered a main gear trunion @ $75 once, can't remember the exact shipping cost but, I do remember I was not impressed and vowed "never again". I've got parts from Europe and even China before at a fraction of the cost and although shipping is not cheap, it's no where near what PST charges. I just had a cockpit kit shipped from FEJ in China to fit to my CARF Hawk. Shipping was $45.

Mike

Downwind3Zero

My Feedback: (10)

Mike, do you know which length pipe is needed?
Chris

luv2flyrc

My Feedback: (6)

Sorry Chris, I don't know and it's installed in the aircraft so can't really measure it. If you tell Tam it's for the PST Panther he'll probably know

Mike

Downwind3Zero

My Feedback: (10)

OK thanks.