Ram-bro

My Feedback: (101)

by chance are these even the same model? I believe this model was setup for a byron fan unit, a very draggy/ unclean setup to start with. Ducting cleans things up and attention to detail. I imagine with a D/F unit it flew like a kite at that wingloading. This build judt tells me you can beef up as necessary, detail as necessary and the additional weight and power will be a positive. Just my .02

CRX Turbines

The model says 38 pounds max. I assume this is based on using a ducted fan. At 38 pounds with 10225 square inches wing area, this is less than 9oz/ft wing load. At 64 pounds it is 18 oz/ft wing load and for the model as it was presented in the article at 17 pounds wing load isless than 3oz/ft.

I do believe that this is the same model as the article given the blueprints have the same notations on them as the article print out.

I havea 30lb motor that Icoulduse it for this build.I have beenon a fence about building this because it is a lot of time to invest building a plane without knowing if it is going to be what I want. I see plenty of companies that still sell ducted fan kits out there that are adapted for turbines but is this really the same as a plane that was originally designed for a turbine?

What is the typical wing load on other F16 ARF/kits out there today?

Andy

Stevef16

Can anyone help me with the cog of this model at all please??

b.bixel

My Feedback: (123)

Delete

b.bixel

My Feedback: (123)

7 5/16" from wing leading edge at fuse.

Stevef16

Thanks b.bixel. Here's my f16 of this plan. Hope you guys like it

b.bixel

My Feedback: (123)

Looks sweet! Scale retracts?

Bart

Stevef16

Yep scale retracts. Behotec 130 turbine

b.bixel

My Feedback: (123)

Who's retracts?

Bart

Stevef16

All hand made mate. BIG job. I'll post some more pics

Stevef16

Some more pics. The bomb underneath is a fully operational fuel cell

sidgates

My Feedback: (2)

==========================================
Your wing loading calculation doesn't seem realistic to me. 8oz is more like a sail plane, not a jet. I think your area is closer to 1025sq in. not 10225.

I have seen a 25lb jet fly on 12lb thrust engine at my altitude(5700ft msl). I am planning on trying my scratch built 22lb. jet on a 18lb thrust engine. I expect scale performance. My wing loading is approx. 64oz per sq. ft.

Sid

edwarda10pilot

My Feedback: (3)

Man, Steve, that looks wonderful. How does it fly?

If anyone is interested, I have talked with the designer, Josh Harel, and he has allowed me to provide plans of his three jets (F-16, F-9F-5 Panther and the A-10) free of charge for anyone interested. The Panther is about 85" long and 84" span, the A-10 is about 120" span and about 108" long. I don't recall the exact size of the F-16 but I think it was something like 92" long. Plans are in PDF and can be printed by local repro shops.

Anyway, if anyone is interested in the plans, please e-mail me (I am not getting any e-mails from RCU so an e-mail directly to me is best). My e-mail is : [email protected]

Ed

Couch-pilot

Here is the propfan unit these jets were originally designed to fly on. From what I remember, speed was slower than ducted fans, but grass field take-offs were good.

Hinckley Bill

My Feedback: (569)

Email sent Ed.....Bill

Instructor

My Feedback: (16)

I also sent you an e-mail....Larry

Johnny_Zero

My Feedback: (44)

Another email has been sent. Thanks so much for getting the permission to make these plans available.

k12rc

I also would like copy of plans
Thank keith

edwarda10pilot

My Feedback: (3)

Couch pilot:
You are correct, the plane was designed around that fan. I had a conversation with Josh some time ago and he told me that he sold about 80 of the fan units. I think one of the problems was that the impeller needed more blades and perhaps some more pitch. But, having said that, I think it was a bit like the Byron system and you got a lot of volume (good short field takeoff) but not a lot of velocity so not much for top end speed. I know that when I last flew my A-10 (54 lbs. with Dynamax fans and OS 91's) it was a bit of a struggle as it was underpowered. When Dean, Ivan and I flew the models at the Jet rally in Lubbock, TX in the late 1990's, I believe we "radar'd" my plane at a stupefying 77 mph (full throttle). Last year I converted my A10 to EDF (two Dynamax fans I did a home conversion on) and the plane flew much better. My two Dynamax conversions had an installed thrust of 31 lbs. and the performance was much better.

Keith:
Please send me an e-mail to: [email protected] In the subject line please put Josh Harel Plans" and ell me which of the three plans you would like (F-16, A-10 or F-9F Panther).

Just for those that might be interested, over the last three years I have sent out approximately 200 sets of plans (either A-10, F-16 or Panther) so it would be nice if some of you that are building the planes, start some build threads. There are a couple of threads , one for the F-16 and one for the A-10 here:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2030212 (F-16 build)

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...ek#post9895125 A-10

If you are happy with the plans then I would invite any of you that care to do so to send Josh a PM and a thanks. I do not know if he spends time here but he does a lot of his posting on RCG, His user name is : n99JH

Anyway, lets get some of these plane built.

Andy, sorry to hijack your thread. Steve, don't forget to post some more info on your build. Could you post any photos you have of the model during your build?

thanks,
Ed

edwarda10pilot

My Feedback: (3)

I forgot to mention that since my post yesterday offering the plans for free, I have sent out 5 sets of F-16 plans, 5 sets of Panther plans and 4 sets of A-10 plans.

Again, the plans are free, courtesy of Josh Harel, and all you need to do is to send me an e-mail at: [email protected] In the subject line please put "Josh Harel Plans" or something similar so I will not delete it as spam.

Ed

edwarda10pilot

My Feedback: (3)

Since I have sent out so many copies of the plans, I thought I would share my experience in getting the plans printed. A few years ago I needed the A-10 plans copied so I just went down to FedEx Kinkos and asked them to copy the plans. Never really thought to ask them the cost as I had copies of the plans made previously when I lived in a different city and the cost was not too bad. Anyway, when the guy finished copying the plans, the bill was $156 (for 108 sq. ft. of A-10 drawing). I was astounded so after that I decided I would need to find a different company. I checked Office Depot (they can not print anything very big so they are out), and a few other "chain" office supply companies and they were all pretty expensive. I finally decided to find a "commercial" reproduction shop close to home. I discovered that a company that prints/copies drawings/blueprints for commercial entities (construction firms, architectural offices, city/state/federal governments is much more economical. When I found the company they were originally charging me about $.50 per sq. ft. (versus $1.45 per sq. ft. @ Kinkos) but as I had more stuff printed (I would guess that over the past four years they have printed/copied about 3,000 sq. ft. of drawings for me), they eventually lowered the price to about $.25 per sq. ft. I also found that they can scan the prints (in the case of the Harel prints), save it to my thumb drive or CD. Then, when I need more copies, I simply e-mail the file to them, tell them how many copies and then pick the copies up. Additionally, I have had them enlarge plans for me.

For example, I have a new project I am thinking about doing so I took the file to them. They saved it and then went on to enlarge the plans for me. We went from a 40" P-80 to a 120" P-80 that might be a future project. They also enlarged an A-4 set of plans for me. I had an 8.5 x 11" drawing of an A4 and I had them enlarge the drawing so in the end I ended up building an 88" long (64" span) all foam A-4 that I flew as EDF. Plane came out at about 20 lbs. and flew very well. I have attached a few photos of the A-4 but here is a link to the build: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...898841&page=35 My project starts at about Post 514. Air plane is built with 1" thick blue foam and 9mm Depron. You will see two different fans in the plane one is a 6" diameter fan (Byron EDF replacement) a friend and I have been working on for about 2 years and it is close to production. The other fan is a glow Dynamax fan converted to EDF. This fan is putting out 18 lbs. of thrust on 12S at about 127 amps and flew the A-4 very well.

Anyway, all of this to say that if you are printing these plans (or someone else's) try to find a repro shop that does commercial stuff, make friends with them and it will be much more cost effective. They can also do enlargements of reductions for you.

Ed

k12rc

,nice A4 worked on them when I was in Brunswick Georgia

effx33

My Feedback: (6)

Would love to build this plane but where can you get the foam wings, canopy, tail cone, nose cone? Or is this all scratch built? Would it take a electric fan?

Thanks,

Jim

edwarda10pilot

My Feedback: (3)

Hello Jim. If you are talking about building the Josh Harel F-16 I have a bit of info for you. The plane is scratch built and the builder is "on his own" with regards to the components. I can e-mail the plans to you. Given the current state of EDF's I believe that you could make this plane fly on a large EDF.All of the items (foam wings and tails, nose cone, etc.) will have to be "scratched" . However, you might be able to get a canopy pulled for the F-16 by contacting Keith Sparks at : www.parkflyerplastics.com . You would have to provide a plug for his to use but I believe he can make the canopy for you. He has done a few for some of my scratch builds..

Let me know via e-mail ([email protected] ) if you would like the plans.

Ed