rcfun2005

plan-1 was:

first fly parkzone habu hopped up, then fly e-flight habu 32 hopped up. then fly trainer/ sprot turbine jet.



after going thru the input from everyone on MY previous post. "plane to train on BEFORE first turbine jet ?"


sounds like the above jet edf planes , won't fly like turbine jets , so experience not directly transfer to first turbine jet ...
however , stick time in different type planes is GOOD... so this is not bad plan just not best plan.


note: i have lots of heli time on sticks , and just started with electric planes, but got the turbine BUG big time.


PLAN2:

maybe the pusher prop, type Jets would be better:

like the nitroplane falcon 120, looks like bob cat .


it is probably does not have heavy wing loading , which ok, i have decided to stay away from heavy metal turbine jets , just stick with trainer/sport jets with light wing loading .


the pusher prop, will not have the air from prop pushing over control services , so be like turbine in that sense.


also , from what i understand , EDF in general are not very effecient , so pusher prop would get more bang for the buck ?? ( i am assuming this, not sure)


anyway, i am thinking staying away from EDF jets for my training for my first turbine if i could get more bang for the buck with pusher prop jets.

so in general think pusher prop jets would be better ? any models suggestions in particular to look at ?


would also try to program in a throttle delay to help train for turbines.

thanks again for all the input !!

Jame

Welcome to Jets RCFUN2005, I think its literally down to your own confidence in putting the model exactly where you want it, Ive only just recently got into Jets myself, just over 12 months ago, before I bought my first Airframe and Turbine, I gained experience on the same F3A Electric Airframes. The Habu 32 really is a great little model, weve been flying one for around 3 Months now, really crisp flying characteristics and reaosnably slow landing pace, only downside, like you say is the Cost of the Battery Setup and Long Charge Delays between Flights if you only have 1 or 2 sets of Lipo Cells.

There are certain hints and tips that can almost eliminate the areas of concern with Turbine, an example that you've mentioned is Throttle Lag, this can be eliminated by not reducing the Throttle Stick below around a 1/4 of the travel when flying around, this will reduce the turbine revs to such a point, the thrust output will be only a little ove Idle and also reduce the Throttle Lag to around 1 - 2 seconds (dependent on Turbine Manufacturer).

Hope this isnt too confusing.

Regards

Jame

Nhalyn

To be ready for a turbine jet, you have to have some experience from différents style of models. I personaly flew for a certain time lots of different thing like large scale models and large gliders (5 meters, 1/3 scale, aerobatics) plus expérience flying high speed pusher propelled models like my funjet and EDF turbines of same size.

I you have both experience of high weight models (like 1/4 scale warbirds) or large scale gliders, plus experience with Ã* funjet or similar, then you are ready for jet.

rcfun2005

i realize lots of experience on lots of types of planes would be great !!!

but real world budget cost and hobby time are very much limitting factors ..


so each model represents a so much money $$$ and so much time ....


when you start adding multiple models to get to the point to fly turbines ... the total cost gets big in $$$ and time...


so my goal is to choose wisely on the next planes to get the most bang for the buck for time money before getting turbine jet.


also ,,, sticking with a proven trainer/sport turbine jet for the first turbine jet purchase.

anyway thanks for comments everything helps to make informed choices along the way !!

Dr Honda

My Feedback: (4)

Yep... what he said.

I know there have been a few people asking about turbine trainers... but I don't remember if you said if you have built much stick time yet. Realistically, you just need stick time on a bunch of different air frames. Also, since you are in the USA... you will have to show complete competency before anyone will sign your waiver application.

With that said... if you set up a Falcon with a pusher prop... you can always use that as your turbine trainer once the time comes. AND... if you do set up a Falcon 120... make sure you do all the "Turbine mods", and put a half gallon fuel tank in it. That will get you use to flying a 20Lb model that was designed to fly at 12 Lbs.

Now... my final word of advice is... if you have enough fixed wing stick time to be a competent pilot... just get a turbine trainer (with a turbine engine) and move forward.

rcfun2005

Tony:
"Now... my final word of advice is... if you have enough fixed wing stick time to be a competent pilot... just get a turbine trainer (with a turbine engine) and move forward. "


Hey Tony ... well i have lots of heli stick time and some stick time on planes with out landing gear...

so i really need some stick time on landing on the runway !!!

so i will be flying some other planes before the turbine ,,, just wanted to make informed choices on next plane...

tks

STKNRUD

Your over thinking the whole thing. Fly the heck out of what you have. Get a stock Habu and then decide when and what.

George

rcfun2005

hey George , well put !! all this thinking about is wearing me out !!

siddus74

My sentiments .... if you can fly a habu you can fly any boomerang jet or sport jet - there is no difference IMO. You are over analysing it, personally I would bypass the whole expensive EDF stuff if your using it only to step up to jets - the large stuff flys so much better - more stable, more predicatble etc etc. I bet if were are honest here, if your model jet flying career started with a sport jet it ended in a "wow that was exhilarting but that wasnt difficult at all, what was I worried about?" looking back I wish I bypassed the whole boomerang / sport jet section an went straight for the F15 or likes - just as predicatable and stable but much better lookiing. Now im stuck with a sport jet I never fly but owes me more money than its worth ...

I had a falcon with a pusher - it was all noise and no go, rubbish I thought - was sooooooooooo slow - 1 day, 2 flights - then straight back on the classifieds, what an anti climax.

Scott.

Dr Honda

My Feedback: (4)

Welllllll........................

This is the real problem, and the above is the kind of comment I hear from people who don't understand. With the exception of a few people... most of us need "time" to become good pilots. You don't have to spend a lot of money... but you do need time. Along with time... you will need to be competent with a few fast models (+100 mph) and a few heavy models. (+12 Lbs) The reason for the weight is because to get your waiver, your model has to be +12 Lbs wet.


After typing that... a 160 sized pattern ship comes to mind. It will have weight, and speed. Also, it will have a price tag that will make you think twice about what you are doing. I know I said you don't need to spend big $$$... but lets face it... a turbine on a budget (for most people) will still be $2200 to $2500. (A Kingtech 80 in a Tornado/Falcon)




All stick time is good... but I'm a heli pilot going back +25 years. My first Heli was a GMP Cricket, that I bought in '84~'86, so I feel qualified to say... "Rotary Wing" fly totally diffident than "Fixed wing".

Also... small fixed wing is still good for building time... but here again, they fly different since they a light... and there isn't much of a pucker factor since there is relatively low amounts of $$$ hanging in the sky.


I'm really not trying to be an A-hole... but, in my younger life, I worked in a few hobby stores, and I've heard this story (in one form or another) at least a hundred times. The best version of this story always came from full sized pilots. They thought since they could fly a real plane... a model would be easy. I would try to explain that it's not the same, but they didn't listen... and they would wind up with a crushed model the first time out.


What it really comes down to is how you feel about your abilities as a fixed wing pilot. When you think you are ready... put a turbine together, and go find your local AMA turbine CD, and ask him to help. BUT... I will tell you this.... most CD's aren't even going to ask you to fly your turbine the first time you meet. He/She will probably want to see you fly around with a regular sport prop plane for a while first.




Ok... putting all that aside, you need weight, speed, and time. Get a model that fits that frame... and go fly the piss out of it. Remember, time isn't "TIME" in the cosmic sense... it's stick time, and that can be measured in gallons of fuel burn. SO... you can be ready to try in a few months, if you are burning enough fuel.


I would be right with the guys above saying to stop over thinking it... but I get the feeling that you don't have enough real stick time to just jump into it.

Dr Honda

My Feedback: (4)

One more thing... I agree with siddus74. A prop Falcon 120 is slow, and not much fun. It would probably be good with a .90 sized DF engine pushing it. (but the DF engines are expensive) And... if the EDF thing doesn't turn you on... by pass it. I have personally NEVER owned an EDF model.

BaldEagel

I take it from the question that you are going it alone i.e. no experienced jet flyers in your club to give you advise, this was how I started, no one in my club had any experience with turbines.

First airframe was a Boomerang Elan with a JetCat 80 (no SE available when I started) good basic trainer with the P80 installed, but a bit underpowered, so in went a P120SE made it a bit more exciting until I got cocky and put it into the ground doing a too low pass.

Bought a second hand Boomerang Sprint with a JetsMunt 90 installed, very nice, in fact better to fly and easier to land than the Elan, should have gone that route first.

I now have various other jets and turbines, if you want to know what fly's more like a turbine than an actual turbine, its the Habu 32 (not the Habu) with 6S on board, it lands like a heavily loaded jet, you must keep an eye on the time in the air as you don't want to land dead stick with it (Elan and Sprint are easy to land dead stick) as at its loading it is fast in the glide, I would not recommend it to anyone without a lot of stick time on fixed wing, large fixed wing war birds are not IMO the right way to go, too much of an investment that could have been spent on a jet.

My advise would be get some hours on a fast heavy aerobatic fixed wing and then get a Boomerang of somekind, lots of help and advise on RCU for all the different Boomers and they have a good resale value unlike most others, in fact look for a second hand one yourself.

Good Luck in whatever you decide to do, but do let us know how you get on.

Mike

rcfun2005

Hey everyone , thanks for all your post ,,, been great help !!


lots of options , no one way is the only way, but i decided for sure i do need to get more stick time with planes as everyone suggested.


probably just move forward with a habu , and then decide next step after that ...


thanks, again !!

flyinfool1

My Feedback: (2)

One step at a time is best. Once you start to get some fixed wing stick time your thoughts of what YOU want in a plane may change.

The pusher prop planes would be good practice if you plan to get a similar turbine plane. As was mentioned, just do all of the turbine conversion mods that are referenced on this site and put in a bigger than recommended engine. If you do it right, you will already have your first plane for a turbine with just an engine to turbine swap, and you will already be very familiar with its flight characteristics.

I fly both heli and planes. You will have some habits from heli flying that you will have to unlearn for flying planes. For now just pick something with fixed wings and fly the heck out of it, worry about step 2 when step one is worn out or broken beyond repair.

KC36330

i don't want to single out any particular post above but several have some misleading information and i'll touch on a few. true sport jets do NOT fly anything at all like a Habu, and things you've learned flying helis will actually help you more then hurt you when it comes to flying anything fixed wing. a great number of fixed wing fliers think the left stick is only for throttle and ground steering, heli flying will teach you how to properly use rudder in flight. i seen a very experienced flyer of everything RC except turbines learn a very valuable lesson not too long ago when he got his very first turbine flight. he had told someone in regards to turbine jets that 'They fly just like everything else' and he found out that a true sport jets does not in fact fly anything at all like his Habu or anything else he'd ever flown and this particular jet most everyone who has ever flown one will tell you is the easiest to fly there is, it does EXACTLY what you tell it to do, nothing more and that's the catch, a lot of people have the misconception that a sport/scale jet will do things on its own that most other type prop planes (and trainer jets) will do on their own when they won't.

Dr Honda

My Feedback: (4)

Ouch.

That's not a happy Flash.

KC36330

sadly it's a Bandit

toprudder

I think it depends on what aspect of your flying you think needs more work (aka TIME).

The PNP Habu is only $199 right now. Cheap, quick, easy to get into the air. IMHO, it is good for learning to land on the runway. You don't have to fly it like a turbine, but if you do I think it is good stick time towards that goal. Shoot plenty of touch-n-goes with it. Learn to make low approaches with a little throttle on. Having a small runway to aim for is good, if you fly off a big runway always try to touch on the same spot every time. Once you get good at that, add a 5 cell pack. Plenty quick for its size.

I have not really thought about it before, but if you want to simulate a higher wing loading, cut a couple inches off the wing tips of the Habu. I don't really think this is necessary, though, as some of the turbine trainers (like the Shockjet and the Boomerang) land slowly anyway. My Shockjet is like a telemaster with a turbine.

Besides landing approaches, I think the only other aspect of flying a turbine plane would be the speed. Any fast airplane can simulate that. The Habu on 5 cells won't fly 200mph, but for its size it will appear pretty quick. Get used to flying close to the ground with it at full throttle.

JMHO.

Dr Honda

My Feedback: (4)

I missed this one too...


Yes... that's a big part of all of this, and it's part of your waiver requirements. I will have to go back and check, but I think you have to hit the center-line of the runway within 10'. So... practicing "The Pattern" and hitting the center-line is important.

Dr Honda

My Feedback: (4)

Ooo... even more expensive.

P. Richards

My Feedback: (3)

Flight Simulators were made for a reason, for example when I wanted to learn how to fly helicopters I purchased a simulator called
Ambrosia Aerochopper which taught me how to hover and forward flight a helicopter. Cheesy graphics but it got the job done, it helped my flying skills with the planes as well. When I was ready for my first turbine, I purchased Real Flight simulator I set the jets up heavy and very fast to adjust to the speed of a turbine model and I must say it worked extremely well. You can fly different styles of aircraft in all kinds of conditions and the bottom line is it works, the fact is I owe all of my flight skills to simulators...

P. Richards aka SwatTeam

toprudder

Yes, a simulator is great, but still not quite the real thing. There is no reason both can't be used. However, the AMA regs do state this: "All turbine waiver
applicants should have accomplished at least 50 flights on a high performance model". Doesn't have to be a ducted fan. Not to be picky, but it does not mention simulator time (maybe it should?).

Unrelated, but also interesting, is that the regs don't explicity allow JetA fuel (only Kerosene, Propane and Diesel fuels are mentioned as "approved".)

KC36330

Jet-A is a Kerosene grade fuel.

toprudder

Yeah, I know that, but I find it interesting that it does not explicitly mention it.

sieze2

It sounds like you were in exactly the same position as me. I am in essence a 3d heli pilot, who can also fly planes. The big problem was landing a big expensive model on a small runway! I got a boomerang nano with a wren supersport, which is effectively a turbine trainer with an oversized turbine. Its super easy to fly a low speeds, and on approach. I had a friend land it the first few times, so I could see how he does the approach. Let me tell you its all about the approach on landing when flying a turbine. You don't have the throttle response to "make it up as you go". Also the thrust does not blow over the control surfaces with a turbine, so they feel different on final approach. I was going to get a habu or EDF to practice landing, but a friend told me it would be nothing like landing a nano, so what is the point....? and he was right! I suggest just getting a turbine plane that can fly nice and stable when at slow speed, and then finding a big runway, and going for it....anything else is just noise ! It worked for me, and I am flying off a 50 meter grass runway.