F-22 Ends production
12-21-2011, 08:53 AM
#1
F-22 Ends production
http://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/ne...tor-rolls.html
interesting the F-16 has outlived the -22 in production. i suppose for a long term program, you better be able to sell it
12-21-2011, 09:28 AM
#4
RE: F-22 Ends production
Japan has on order of intent for 42 F-35's.
F-22 can't be exported, IMO just to make a point that it is America's superiority fighter and it is not for sale. Besides, I don't think any foreign country could afford it anyway (except for may be CHINA!). Also, if you export an F-22, you are basically exposing it to the rest of the world. Any costumer will place it under their own qualification process, and it could turn ugly if they find it unfit. It is just too risky.
The F-16 will outlive the F-22, the F-35, and the new breed of UAV's...........which most countries under development can't afford, while the F-16 cost keeps going down. F-16 is a build to print aircraft. LM can crank one out faster than Ford can crank out an Explorer.
F-22 can't be exported, IMO just to make a point that it is America's superiority fighter and it is not for sale. Besides, I don't think any foreign country could afford it anyway (except for may be CHINA!). Also, if you export an F-22, you are basically exposing it to the rest of the world. Any costumer will place it under their own qualification process, and it could turn ugly if they find it unfit. It is just too risky.
The F-16 will outlive the F-22, the F-35, and the new breed of UAV's...........which most countries under development can't afford, while the F-16 cost keeps going down. F-16 is a build to print aircraft. LM can crank one out faster than Ford can crank out an Explorer.
12-21-2011, 10:56 AM
#5
RE: F-22 Ends production
ORIGINAL: Molnar142
Sad. And I've been to multiple air shows since '91 and I've yet to see one fly.
Sad. And I've been to multiple air shows since '91 and I've yet to see one fly.
And you're missing out, too. I used to think that bird was the ugliest thing since Yoko Ono until I saw one fly in person.
12-21-2011, 12:02 PM
#7
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RE: F-22 Ends production
IMO just to make a point that it is America's superiority fighter and it is not for sale.
Every other US frontline fighter was exported. Look at the F-15. Even the F-14 was exported.
Japan and Isreal Were the top 2 export countries and tried many times to get the F-22 - even if it was a severily dumbed down version. Don't know why they would not sell it though, very little chance of anything falling into enemy hands. (heck the isreali's basicly buy an airframe and put their own electronics and weapons on them anyway).
Besides - the F-35 is leading edge tech as well, and they supposedly lost that stealth drone too - so does anything stay safe?
12-21-2011, 05:56 PM
#9
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RE: F-22 Ends production
Most of those articles seem to be coming from a few people in the Australian press, most of which quote the Rand Corporation as saying it was a huge failure, blah blah blah. Almost immediately after those articles started appearing, the Rand Corp issued a statement claiming they had never evaluated the F-35 and that the Australian Press was basically lying. These same people go on to sing the praises of the Russian Su-30 and Mig-35 making the people I know think someone in the Australian government REALLY would prefer they buy Russian or Chinese, arguably due to a huge kickback they might be getting.
These same articles also claim the F-22 is a huge failure as well, when simulated combat testing and such in Red Flag engagements has shown quite a different picture. In all of the F-22's Red Flag engagements, their record is currently at something like 145-0. The ONLY time an F-22 was shot in Red Flag is when a dead aircraft on the red force was 'regenerated' and the blue force F-22's didn't know it, so the aircraft was able to re-engage and shoot them with an Aim-9X simulation.
Short version, the F-35 is working ahead of test plan right now, and is doing quite well from what I'm told. There are some issues to work out (as there always are), but that it'll be fleet ready on time.
These same articles also claim the F-22 is a huge failure as well, when simulated combat testing and such in Red Flag engagements has shown quite a different picture. In all of the F-22's Red Flag engagements, their record is currently at something like 145-0. The ONLY time an F-22 was shot in Red Flag is when a dead aircraft on the red force was 'regenerated' and the blue force F-22's didn't know it, so the aircraft was able to re-engage and shoot them with an Aim-9X simulation.
Short version, the F-35 is working ahead of test plan right now, and is doing quite well from what I'm told. There are some issues to work out (as there always are), but that it'll be fleet ready on time.
12-21-2011, 07:24 PM
#10
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RE: F-22 Ends production
ORIGINAL: YellowAircraft
And you're missing out, too. I used to think that bird was the ugliest thing since Yoko Ono until I saw one fly in person.
ORIGINAL: Molnar142
Sad. And I've been to multiple air shows since '91 and I've yet to see one fly.
Sad. And I've been to multiple air shows since '91 and I've yet to see one fly.
And you're missing out, too. I used to think that bird was the ugliest thing since Yoko Ono until I saw one fly in person.
That's very insulting and degrading.........the F-22 is not that ugly
Marty
12-21-2011, 09:29 PM
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RE: F-22 Ends production
The F-22 will go down in history as the biggest rip-off to the American taxpayer ever. It is a shame. It is a neat airplane but the price was insane. The only program that has the potential to be a bigger rip-off is the F-35. When that falls apart, it will be epic. Both are a study in how our military aquisition process and political system are abused. Anytime you try to have a plane do-it-all, you end up with a turkey.
12-21-2011, 10:46 PM
#12
RE: F-22 Ends production
Intresting the F22 chapter...
Over here no one ever heard about the F22 more or less. We see F16, F18 and ofcause JAS Gripen on TV, but never a single word about F22. I've been flying RC for many years beeing intrested in airplanes my whole life, still I did't know the F22 really was flying(flying as in oporational and pulling G's) until I saw the impressive airshow video just months ago. Before that I thought the F22 mostly figured in computer games as other X-planes do.
Over here no one ever heard about the F22 more or less. We see F16, F18 and ofcause JAS Gripen on TV, but never a single word about F22. I've been flying RC for many years beeing intrested in airplanes my whole life, still I did't know the F22 really was flying(flying as in oporational and pulling G's) until I saw the impressive airshow video just months ago. Before that I thought the F22 mostly figured in computer games as other X-planes do.
12-21-2011, 11:18 PM
#13
RE: F-22 Ends production
ORIGINAL: YellowAircraft
And you're missing out, too. I used to think that bird was the ugliest thing since Yoko Ono until I saw one fly in person.
And you're missing out, too. I used to think that bird was the ugliest thing since Yoko Ono until I saw one fly in person.
12-22-2011, 12:29 AM
#14
My Feedback: (17)
RE: F-22 Ends production
The YF22 was really ugly, but the production F22 is not that bad, in fact I quite like it especially since I got my JL one. A very impressive airplane to watch.
As for the kill ratio , it is comparable to most 5th generation fighters in close combat , but the Air force has not engaged them in bvr combat to preserve the secret (at red flag). So in real life it is likely a 100% kill ratio for te F22.
Space shuttle, F22....what will be next?[
]
As for the kill ratio , it is comparable to most 5th generation fighters in close combat , but the Air force has not engaged them in bvr combat to preserve the secret (at red flag). So in real life it is likely a 100% kill ratio for te F22.
Space shuttle, F22....what will be next?[
]
12-22-2011, 04:11 AM
#15
RE: F-22 Ends production
For those that complain about the price..............
12 F-22A Raptor's from the 94th FS partook in this Red Flag, the 94th FS was the second front line squadron to go operational with the F-22. As such, this was the first large exercise for many of their pilots who have just transitioned into the F-22, many had (at the time) less than 100 flight hours in the jet, all in all roughly 50% of the Raptor pilots involved had not been in a major exercise with the jet. Yet these twelve fighters some with new pilots managed to rack up one of the most (if not THE most) lopsided victory in the history of the Blue Force... 244-2, no that's not a typo. And we already know the story of how one of those kills was achieved (see F-22 Loss At Red Flag)...
So by reading this it takes a lot of F16s and F15s to match one raptor. Also lets not forget Russia and China both have stealth fighters now also.
Here is the report the airforce sent to congress when congress was running a smear campaign on the F22. Remember most of congress does not know crap about aviation so all it takes is a few tards to make up some half truths and cause problems.
http://www.f-16.net/news_article3622.html
The good part is the assembly line was left intact and can be restarted very easy. (When we get someone else in the white house)
12 F-22A Raptor's from the 94th FS partook in this Red Flag, the 94th FS was the second front line squadron to go operational with the F-22. As such, this was the first large exercise for many of their pilots who have just transitioned into the F-22, many had (at the time) less than 100 flight hours in the jet, all in all roughly 50% of the Raptor pilots involved had not been in a major exercise with the jet. Yet these twelve fighters some with new pilots managed to rack up one of the most (if not THE most) lopsided victory in the history of the Blue Force... 244-2, no that's not a typo. And we already know the story of how one of those kills was achieved (see F-22 Loss At Red Flag)...
So by reading this it takes a lot of F16s and F15s to match one raptor. Also lets not forget Russia and China both have stealth fighters now also.
Here is the report the airforce sent to congress when congress was running a smear campaign on the F22. Remember most of congress does not know crap about aviation so all it takes is a few tards to make up some half truths and cause problems.
http://www.f-16.net/news_article3622.html
The good part is the assembly line was left intact and can be restarted very easy. (When we get someone else in the white house)
12-22-2011, 12:01 PM
#16
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RE: F-22 Ends production
ORIGINAL: gunradd
Also lets not forget Russia and China both have stealth fighters now also.
Also lets not forget Russia and China both have stealth fighters now also.
As for the Chinese.. the J-20 has some major low-observable issues as well. Canards have long been acknowledged to be 'bad' for radar cross section. And it has the same issues with the engine section as does the Pak-FA.
What I THINK (my personal opinion) is they've designed stealthy-looking airplanes, that likely don't compare to the F-22/F-35 in true low-observable characteristics.
12-22-2011, 06:59 PM
#17
RE: F-22 Ends production
The F-22 assembly line is not intact, it is being inventoried and put in storage under contract for USAF. Marrietta is transitioning to F35 Airframe, and Fort Worth into F-35 final assembly.
This is trully the end and restarting production will take more than likely, well, an act of war.
Sad to see it go, but it must go. Better things on the way, Im almost sure of that.
This is trully the end and restarting production will take more than likely, well, an act of war.
Sad to see it go, but it must go. Better things on the way, Im almost sure of that.
12-22-2011, 07:03 PM
#18
RE: F-22 Ends production
ORIGINAL: skyhawknut
Bull.
Every other US frontline fighter was exported. Look at the F-15. Even the F-14 was exported.
Japan and Isreal Were the top 2 export countries and tried many times to get the F-22 - even if it was a severily dumbed down version. Don't know why they would not sell it though, very little chance of anything falling into enemy hands. (heck the isreali's basicly buy an airframe and put their own electronics and weapons on them anyway).
Besides - the F-35 is leading edge tech as well, and they supposedly lost that stealth drone too - so does anything stay safe?
IMO just to make a point that it is America's superiority fighter and it is not for sale.
Every other US frontline fighter was exported. Look at the F-15. Even the F-14 was exported.
Japan and Isreal Were the top 2 export countries and tried many times to get the F-22 - even if it was a severily dumbed down version. Don't know why they would not sell it though, very little chance of anything falling into enemy hands. (heck the isreali's basicly buy an airframe and put their own electronics and weapons on them anyway).
Besides - the F-35 is leading edge tech as well, and they supposedly lost that stealth drone too - so does anything stay safe?
12-23-2011, 04:30 PM
#19
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RE: F-22 Ends production
The F-22 was grounded for 4 (5?) months because they can't figure out the problems with the OBOGS (On Board Oxygen Generating System) that is providing the pilots contaminated oxygen. The last fatal mishap in Alaska was recently deemed to be pilot error. What BS. The airplane has serious, undefined and unfixed problems with OBOGS, but the AF can't bear to have bad publicity on this extremely expensive jet that has yet to participate in operational missions - Red Flag is an exercise north of Nellis AFB. Stopped production on the F-22? Good, perhaps we taxpayers can cut our losses.
Regards,
Gus
Regards,
Gus
12-26-2011, 07:24 PM
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RE: F-22 Ends production
4195 "closing"chapter materials. [8D]
IMHO..are the people brain juice behind!
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYEx9BiJNfE&list=UUJWcF0ex7_doPdIQGbVpDsQ&index=7&feature=plcp[/youtube]
IMHO..are the people brain juice behind!
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYEx9BiJNfE&list=UUJWcF0ex7_doPdIQGbVpDsQ&index=7&feature=plcp[/youtube]
12-27-2011, 09:20 AM
#22
RE: F-22 Ends production
It will be many years before judgement should be made on the 22. As for cost, only those in gov contracting can really understand the why on that. Lockheed would love to produce these at yugo pricing but with changing requirements, roles, quantities, procurement, etc, when you have design my committee (and a changing committees) the cost is what it is.
