lavi rider

My Feedback: (6)

Oh buddy, I have a feeling you're in the hobby for the wrong reasons...

Just enjoy what you are doing ...care less about appreciation !

butler-campers

The most jets i own i let build.
A few i build myself ( arf and kit)
The most of time my jets get flown through a other pilot ( mostly on shows)
So what for modeller I am?
A complete idiot for a lot of people
But i love the hobby so much , and that is the only reson for having a hobby , TORELAX and don't care what a other thinks of it.
It is not a compotition, then you get stressed

jonastecknare

I dont give xxx if people build or buy! However it might get dangerous very fast when there is no "apprenticeship" (how do you spell that?), no learned experience how strong certain things need to be. This certainly happened before, with crappily built models, but they werent 30 pound going 200mph. Buliding some stuff might be needed to understand an ARF.
Do i need to hide now?
Jonas

pmerritt

My Feedback: (118)

Ron, you must be that one person at the AMA field, sitting on the bench, criticizing each and every plane that arrives, condoning their equipment, vehicle, and persona. 
     You know, I used to dial a phone that had this circular wheel I rotated with my little finger and was even tethered to the wall by cord.   I have stolen tin foil from the pantry to wrap around the rabbit ears to try and get a decent tv signal from one of the 3 stations broadcasting at that time. I changed points and condensor in the distributor of my first car.  We stayed relatively cool when the swamp cooler was running and the water hose didn't spring a leak. 
      Things change and mostly things change for the better or if not, said changes typically wither away.  There are times I spend 40 or 60 hours on the detailing of an ARF project.  I have spent weeks recovering, soaking fuselages from oil saturation to try and get coating to bond, sat with Q tips and dust brushes cleaning planes.  Are they anything less than a stick kit?  I don't think so.  I enjoy cell phones, Fios TV, Electronic Ignition and REALLY appreciate central air conditioning here in Texas.  And I truly admire the expedition of this hobby that an ARF provides that in which we all love and enjoy so much, FLYING.  
Oh yes, while you are sitting at that field, shriveled up and seething in your own self adoration, they have this new invention call a toilet with tanks with water in them these days.  You don't have to sneak out behind the trees and use leaves to finish the chore.  

Airplanes400

My Feedback: (349)

I agree with this premise. I build from plans or from a kit. I have built a few ARF's too. Notice I used the word, built.

When buying any ARF, I noticed they were never put together well. So, I always strip off the cheap covering, rebuild and/or reinforce many structures (especially the landing gear blocks which I always replace with REAL plywood or maple wood), apply CA glue on all joints, throw away the hardware provided with the ARF (control rods, clevises, wheels, fuel line, etc) and replace it with quality materials MADE IN THE USA. I also perform many other improvements to the ARF.

Due to all this work, I usually spend 200 to 300 hours on a .40~.60 sized ARF so that it will last many years. Therefore, I do want to point out that building an ARF correctly is just as much work, or more, than putting together a kit. With that in mind, if you build and ARF correctly, you are in fact, a builder. If you just assemble them in the 15 ~ 20 hours they 'suggest' then you are an ARFer and your ARF will usually not last a single season.

I can't tell you how many ARF'ers I've seen who wonder why their ARF crashed before they got a dozen flights out of it. Makes me laugh so hard!

Steve Moore

pmerritt,

can i say that has to be the BEST!!!!! post I have seen on RCU

Outstanding!!!


I think a conclusion can be drawn that no one in this hobby actually gives a you know wotsit as to whether you are a modeller or ARFer, just do what makes you happy and enjoy it!!!!


It would be nice if Ron could post pictures of the models he has built so we can admire his craftsmanship, and in return we could post picture of ours for his admiration

I will start

E.N.T.

My Feedback: (1)

Boy, this is one if not , the worst thread I've seen in this forum.
I have 2 hobbies, and enjoy everyone of the, BUT, whenever a hobby
interferes in my life, I just leave it.
This is the kind of people I wouldn't deal with due to his kind of
personality. As with many of us there are ones that can build or
at least have the time for it, and there are the others like me who
doesn't have the time for it. That's why I buy them ARF's.
So I don't give a rats s, if you are considered a builder or not.
I always CHECK my planes after bought.

E.N.T.

rhklenke

My Feedback: (24)

Clearly Mr. pmerritt is a little fish who has no idea who he is talking to - it this thread or the other one. I wouldn't be too quick to pile onto his idiotic post and paint yourself with the same brush.

BTW, nice F-16. Paint it yourself? I ask because it looks exactly like a dozen others I've seen...

BTW, I do both, assemble ARF's when I don't have time to build, and build from scratch when I do. There are benefits to both, but there is *no* comparison in the level of effort required...

Bob

Airplanes400

My Feedback: (349)

If that F-16 you are squating behind was made by a Chinese manufacturer, I'd rather save my money a little longer and buy the full size F-16 behind you that was made in the USA. Despite it costing 29 million dollars, I think it's a better value, and will be with me for years to come.

GerKonig

No need to hide, but your message got me thinking. Do you think people just come out of the wood works, no experience, and go get a jet? Quite frankly no.

All the jet model pilots I talked to had a lot of prior experience, and gathered a lot of information before jumping in the pool. So, while your statement "Building some stuff might be needed to understand an ARF" is true, it is irrelevant because people do have prior modelling experience before their first jet.

This is a big country and maybe what I said does not apply in your neck of the woods...

Besides, the minority of the people are NOT "builders" or "ARFers". Almost all the people I know are a mixed bag (not exclusively one or the other). The premise of the survey is flawed. On the other hand all of those that like myself have been in the hobby time enough have been 100% builders at one point (there were not ARFs)

One thing I DID notice is that some elements in our hobby really need a life, and understand this is a hobby (for most of us at least), and as such, this is to unwind and have fun. In my case it worked that way for 40 years:-) When I see people setting up something in the Internet (Futaba Vs whatever, electric vs gas, builders that use balsa vs. builders that use foam, ARFS vs non-ARFS, 72 versus 2.4, and other subjects) and I do not talk just about this forum, I always remember when SNL in a parody of Sesame Street said (and I quote): "This show was brought to you by the letter F and U..."

Gerry
If you are not having fun, you are doing something wrong. If you see somebody else having fun with the hobby and you think they are doing it wrong, just keep your mouth shut, and get help. There IS help available...

Flexnbeef

My Feedback: (9)

Wow!!!, You can tell it's winter time.

Steve Moore

rhklenke

I certainly dont have to paint myself with any brush,

Why are you guys soooo uptight about others in this hobby? This should be a fun hobby! No i didnt paint the model, have i painted models before............ Yes, do I assess the model and strengthen if required.... Yes, do i have the time to paint models at the moment....... No, Does that affect you and how you enjoy your hobby........ No. So i get out of it what I want, you get out of it what you want! Yes my model F16 is not the only one to grace the planet in that colour scheme, do I care? Absolutely not as I do this hobby for me, not for you or anyone else!

At no stage have I criticised building or ARFing, its each to their own.

You see the point i make?



Airplanes 400,

Nice point, however my cash is my cash, absolutely I would love a real F16, is it gonna happen....... No, Will i be devastated if I lose my F16....... well I wont be happy and of course i would not want it to happen but it is a hobby!


GerKonig

I completely agree with you

VF84sluggo

My Feedback: (55)

There wasn't a "None of the above" choice. I prefer to fly them.

Man, talk about a tempest in a teapot with these threads lately...all because some folks have the unmitigated audacity to expect, after dropping $3K on an 'arf', that the thing should actually hold together. How dare these "arf-ers" tread onto such hallowed ground!

Steve Moore

Yes how dare we, may we burn in hell for all eternity for enjoying the 'hobby'

rhklenke

My Feedback: (24)

Hum, some comments from the original post:

And your responce:

Clearly you have some experience in the hobby. If you had a point to make, you should have made it, instead of heaping accolades on a post containing such childish comments.

If you want to see some of Ron's work, just look up the thread on the 125% Turbinator...

Bob

Steve Moore

rhklenke

By your own quote of me I stated that is one of the best response posts I have seen on RCU, I did not agree nor disagree with its contents of the post but stated it was outstanding and anyone can assume I either agree or exude sarcasm.

My calling for Ron to upload images of his work is to try to turn this thread into something quite positive as we all have a common interest, and it is always nice to see others models. Therefore my uploading was to kick start this process but as always there are other individuals waiting to cricitise.

Well I think it is time to move to another thread as this appears to be stagnated with some individuals who don't appear to understand that this is supposed to be a fun enjoyable hobby. I must admit with these posts im writing I could have probably painted a model having built it from scratch!!!

I wish you all well no matter whether you build, buy or ARF!!!

cheers

raptureboy

Since you only gave me only 2 choices I voted for neither, so there! Hasn't this controversy been beaten to death already? This subject is like Dawn of the Dead. Arf, barf, kit, scratch, bash what ever![:@] If it means so much to you to get an award for your plane then maybe you need to go over to the scale site, the hobby is going where the money is and thats with arfs. Have you noticed that top Flite has now made an arf out of almost all their kits? Better buy them now while you can. I love my arf pt-17 and my arf p-40 they give me something to fly while I build my kit p-47 and my kit pt-19 and repair all my other kits and arfs. Most every guy at our field flys and enjoys their arfs and have been for a while even the old guys who grew up building kits. Most don't last a year or 2 any way and not because they fell apart. Sorry but threads like these just serve to make those entering the hobby feel like they aren't wanted because they haven't paid their dues to the scratch gods.

MTK

I am a dyed in the wool "Modeler" but have also put a few "ARFs" together. I mean, why not? Quality of a few ARFs is good. So I am both I'd say and would bet that many of you fit the description too.

Remember that if you are a modeler, making the transition to include ARFing is no big deal. In fact, hell if you don't like something about the ARFie, you can dive in and fix it. If you're an ARFer only, too bad so sad....you come on these pages and "Bee" with an "itch" and you can pay a modeler to fix you up, or buy a new ARFie

rhklenke

My Feedback: (24)

I don't think your response was sarcasm, but if you want to side step your endorsement that way, so be it.

How about an entire thread...

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_10793168/tm.htm

schroedm

My Feedback: (1)

Hey, that looks like laser cut wood parts - that's not "proper modelling" that's "ARF modelling"

Another great RCU thread............

crankpin

My Feedback: (15)

My 2 cents. I have build many a plane in my day.. I believe that ARF's have brought more flyer's, or person's into the hobby. This increases AMA and other SIG membership. What does this do ? Brings down the cost of radio gear, the kits, and more participation in events.

What if we had to go to a dealer, order our favorite car or truck, in kit form ?

Crank

rhklenke

My Feedback: (24)

I agree with that 100% and I think ARFs are very valuable to the modeling community. As I said, I have both types of aircraft in my collection. I also think that most guys that do ARFs are knowledgeable and lots of them are experienced guys who used to build, but now, because of time constraints, etc., go the ARF route.

I think Ron's comments though are for *some* of the noob segment of the community that want the big, complex, fast, etc. hardware without being willing to gain the experience necessary to operate, repair, inspect, etc. themselves, and in cases related by several individuals here, including Ron, *expect* to be able to get "free" help from those who have gained the experience the hard way...

Not all guys who assemble ARFs are "ARFers"...

Bob

charlie1960

smells a bit like elitism...

i dont know why some would think their better than others. does not wind under the wing create lift.....??? be it arf or kit built.
we all, started at the bottom.

i care not what one thinks of my planes. i fly becuase i enjoy it. i relish seeing something from my own hand and my own skillset,
do what it was designed to do. and know i made this happen. reguardless of its original packaging.

those of you who get beat out on awards by ARF's and get bent....try harder. or maybe, just maybe you're in it for the wrong reason.
those that build arfs, have just as much of themselves in thier planes as the hardcore builders. Ive never built a kit, have no inclination to do so at this time.
ive also never built (yes i said built) an ARF that didnt need something reengineered.
maybe, someday. alas, i digress.

theres room for all. its about friendship. admiriation for a slick landing.
you elites need to get over yourselves, remember where YOU started.

Good Day, Gentlemen.

TBONE6

THANK YOU!! Saved me a lot of typing!!

Jetdktr

My Feedback: (21)

rhklenke said:

"I think Ron's comments though are for *some* of the noob segment of the community that want the big, complex, fast, etc. hardware without being willing to gain the experience necessary to operate, repair, inspect, etc. themselves, and in cases related by several individuals here, including Ron, *expect* to be able to get "free" help from those who have gained the experience the hard way..."

I agree with this 100%.

I have worked P/T in the Hobby Store. Arf's do have there place for a "newbie". They have brought more people into the hobby. I tell them to get an arf to Get in air fast ,learn to fly, but I suggest they build there second airplane over the winter. This will get them to try and build with no rush to get it done, and also show them how an airplane is built, so if and when they crash,or hard landing , they will be able to make the repair.

Laser cut kits have made building easier, but, they dont fall out of the box all put together, you still have to some building experience to have a nice flying, good looking airplane.