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Modeler or ARfer?
01-09-2012, 10:05 AM
#51
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RE: Modeler or ARfer?
ORIGINAL: David Searles
It never ceases to amaze me, the lengths that people will go, to somehow make themselves feel like they are somehow better than, or superior to, someone else![:'(]
And for whatever reason it does seem to permeate this hobby. We've all seen if not participated in it with every Futaba vs JR, JetCat vs the world, BVM vs the world, & now ARF vs built, pissing match that ensues on this and other sites. I have yet to see anything positive come out of any of it!
That old turbine pilots vs every other R/C pilot attitude has succeeded in getting us kicked out of clubs all over the country! When will we learn finally, that this is just a hobby! Something we all do for fun and enjoyment. Does any of the rest of it really matter?!
My 2 cents.
David S
It never ceases to amaze me, the lengths that people will go, to somehow make themselves feel like they are somehow better than, or superior to, someone else![:'(]
And for whatever reason it does seem to permeate this hobby. We've all seen if not participated in it with every Futaba vs JR, JetCat vs the world, BVM vs the world, & now ARF vs built, pissing match that ensues on this and other sites. I have yet to see anything positive come out of any of it!
That old turbine pilots vs every other R/C pilot attitude has succeeded in getting us kicked out of clubs all over the country! When will we learn finally, that this is just a hobby! Something we all do for fun and enjoyment. Does any of the rest of it really matter?!
My 2 cents.
David S
Very well said indeed. Mind you those old chaps that spin round in a circle with a plane on the end of a piece of string. What the heck is that all about
01-09-2012, 10:09 AM
#52
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RE: Modeler or ARfer?
ORIGINAL: Steve Moore
pmerritt,
can i say that has to be the BEST!!!!! post I have seen on RCU
Outstanding!!!
I think a conclusion can be drawn that no one in this hobby actually gives a you know wotsit as to whether you are a modeller or ARFer, just do what makes you happy and enjoy it!!!!
It would be nice if Ron could post pictures of the models he has built so we can admire his craftsmanship, and in return we could post picture of ours for his admiration
I will start
pmerritt,
can i say that has to be the BEST!!!!! post I have seen on RCU
Outstanding!!!
I think a conclusion can be drawn that no one in this hobby actually gives a you know wotsit as to whether you are a modeller or ARFer, just do what makes you happy and enjoy it!!!!
It would be nice if Ron could post pictures of the models he has built so we can admire his craftsmanship, and in return we could post picture of ours for his admiration
I will start
Steve
Was it the big one or the little one you built or was it both
01-09-2012, 10:14 AM
#53
RE: Modeler or ARfer?
ORIGINAL: Jeffpro
And you know what? There's not a single thing wrong with that! If you're a modeler and enjoy building from scratch, more power to you. If you enjoy flying more than building and would prefer to spend the limited time you have at the field rather than in the workshop, hats off to you, too.
And you know what? There's not a single thing wrong with that! If you're a modeler and enjoy building from scratch, more power to you. If you enjoy flying more than building and would prefer to spend the limited time you have at the field rather than in the workshop, hats off to you, too.
i can do both, but i prefer to be out flying
01-09-2012, 10:24 AM
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RE: Modeler or ARfer?
What does it matter if people build or buy, as long as there are people getting in to this great hobby, then who cares. I dont mind helping a freind with an arf or working on my own scatch building project,it dosent at all matter at the end of the day.
01-09-2012, 10:39 AM
#55
RE: Modeler or ARfer?
Not even worth voting on. I build from kits and also ARF's. My hobby is still the same. Build a kit or build an ARF. It is the same, now go fly your thing.
01-09-2012, 10:43 AM
#56
RE: Modeler or ARfer?
First of all, if you have read this thread to this point don't blame the poster or the the post, your just a little gossip hound like the rest of us. Personally I get a kick out this stuff. Flying models for me is as much about the contact with others as it is about spending countless hours at home alone in my shop. I never like being alone at the field.
Every once in a while we all hit a point of where we've just had enough of someone or something and need to vent. I think Ron just hit that point, nothing more nothing less.
As for me I see it in a simple form, if all of the pieces of your jet came in boxes smaller than your microwave, you built it. if the boxes are bigger than your stove, you assembled it. The only thing I've never been found of is the lack of designation between ARF and self built models at most of the events I've attended. Some events do stipulate the difference and I think this is much more appreciated by the craftsman in the hobby. I have a Reaction 54 that I built, modified, painted and detailed over many hours so I do feel a little jaded when it's judged against and loses to a box stock ARF. I didn't build the plane to compete in contests but it would be nice if the playing field was more even.
I have over the course of several years assembled many prop, EDF and turbine ARFs. Some were left stock while others received alot of extra detailing or reconstruction or painting so I fit exactly in the middle of the debate. I do have a stronger sense of accomplishment with my scratch built planes, I currently have four going on at the momment and I like to switch back and forth, it keeps my building from becoming laborious.
I'll some it up like this. If I was displaying my Flyeagle F-86 in a group of BVM kit built F-86s I would be humble and not try to equate my plane on the same level. For me it's just a matter of respecting the company I'm in.
JMHO
Bob
Every once in a while we all hit a point of where we've just had enough of someone or something and need to vent. I think Ron just hit that point, nothing more nothing less.
As for me I see it in a simple form, if all of the pieces of your jet came in boxes smaller than your microwave, you built it. if the boxes are bigger than your stove, you assembled it. The only thing I've never been found of is the lack of designation between ARF and self built models at most of the events I've attended. Some events do stipulate the difference and I think this is much more appreciated by the craftsman in the hobby. I have a Reaction 54 that I built, modified, painted and detailed over many hours so I do feel a little jaded when it's judged against and loses to a box stock ARF. I didn't build the plane to compete in contests but it would be nice if the playing field was more even.
I have over the course of several years assembled many prop, EDF and turbine ARFs. Some were left stock while others received alot of extra detailing or reconstruction or painting so I fit exactly in the middle of the debate. I do have a stronger sense of accomplishment with my scratch built planes, I currently have four going on at the momment and I like to switch back and forth, it keeps my building from becoming laborious.
I'll some it up like this. If I was displaying my Flyeagle F-86 in a group of BVM kit built F-86s I would be humble and not try to equate my plane on the same level. For me it's just a matter of respecting the company I'm in.
JMHO
Bob
01-09-2012, 01:33 PM
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RE: Modeler or ARfer?
So, what I am hearing is this:
The guy who goes to home depot, buys a bunch of blue core foam and scratch builds a scale jet that at best leaves a lot to be desired is a " modeler "
The guy who shows up with a BVM Ultra Bandit ARF, that has been expertly built, with a super clean radio install, painted trays, custom made do-dads, completely fitted out cockpit with pilots, and a full lighting package....with not so much as a drop of glue or blemish anywhere is a "ARFer"?
That about right?
The guy who goes to home depot, buys a bunch of blue core foam and scratch builds a scale jet that at best leaves a lot to be desired is a " modeler "
The guy who shows up with a BVM Ultra Bandit ARF, that has been expertly built, with a super clean radio install, painted trays, custom made do-dads, completely fitted out cockpit with pilots, and a full lighting package....with not so much as a drop of glue or blemish anywhere is a "ARFer"?
That about right?
Pretty much. Pretty much...
I think ARFs should be static judged in a separate class from kits when possible.
What bugs me are the 'checkbook' modelers who phone in their orders to an assembler and pick it up a couple months later. We see it in the IMAC at our club a lot. Many times these guys are low-skill pilots who get into big birds because they can afford it. Then the other 'checkbook' fliers put them in as judges.
They should just meet at a restaurant and compare bank balances, LOL !!
01-09-2012, 01:35 PM
#60
RE: Modeler or ARfer?
ORIGINAL: bevar
I drilled and balanced the 3 blade prop on my Tucano......therefore...I AM A MODELER!!!!
Beave
I drilled and balanced the 3 blade prop on my Tucano......therefore...I AM A MODELER!!!!
Beave
No you are not. This is the definition: "You are a modeler if you have built a few planes from plans, scratch, or from a kit." Apparently the definition was engraved on the back of one of the 3 tablets that contained the 15 commandments. Sorry, 2 tablets, 10 commandments, Moses dropped one on his way down from the mountain...
Besides, I am sure you did not grow the tree that gave you the wood to carve that prop. I am really mostly a modeller, but I will change that. Some modellers are just too embarrassing...
Gerry
I can see this is going to be a long winter...
01-09-2012, 01:42 PM
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RE: Modeler or ARfer?
Planes vs helis, gas vs glow, Build vs ARF. People like you are killing the hobby.
Its hard enpogh to get new people in and when they see this type of crap they run away in droves.
They are toy aeroplanes after all and we fly for fun. Get over your self idiot.
Its hard enpogh to get new people in and when they see this type of crap they run away in droves.
They are toy aeroplanes after all and we fly for fun. Get over your self idiot.
01-09-2012, 02:11 PM
#62
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RE: Modeler or ARfer?
ORIGINAL: charlie1960
smells a bit like elitism...
i dont know why some would think their better than others. does not wind under the wing create lift.....??? be it arf or kit built.
we all, started at the bottom.
Good Day, Gentlemen.
smells a bit like elitism...
i dont know why some would think their better than others. does not wind under the wing create lift.....??? be it arf or kit built.
we all, started at the bottom.
Good Day, Gentlemen.
Build it, shake the box and assemble it who cares. enjoy your hobby because it is YOUR hobby not the next guys...... I'll help anyone that wants the help whether it is an ARF or a kit or scratch built airplane because I like the commaradrie that comes along with fooling around with these model airplanes.
David Reid
BVM, JetCat Rep
01-09-2012, 02:14 PM
#64
RE: Modeler or ARfer?
Builder, ARFer, Checkbook flyers (wish I was one ) rubber band powered, nitro powered, kero, gas, free flight, 3d, slope soarer, FPV, electric, EDF... you name it
it all = grown men with toy airplanes to the outside viewer.... you must be bored to worry about such things, I must be bored to read 3 pages worth of it
Go have a BBQ at the field with your friends and fly, you need to get away from paint fumes and have some fun [&:]
) rubber band powered, nitro powered, kero, gas, free flight, 3d, slope soarer, FPV, electric, EDF... you name itit all = grown men with toy airplanes to the outside viewer.... you must be bored to worry about such things, I must be bored to read 3 pages worth of it
Go have a BBQ at the field with your friends and fly, you need to get away from paint fumes and have some fun [&:]
01-09-2012, 02:20 PM
#65
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RE: Modeler or ARfer?
I would like to thank those who really know me to try and defend my point of view but more so I thank all of you who have called me every kind of derogatory name under the sun both here in the thread and by email. Enjoy your part of the hobby; I'll enjoy mine.
01-09-2012, 02:23 PM
#66
RE: Modeler or ARfer?
ORIGINAL: DavidR
Actually it's the wind over th etop of the wing that creates lift, it's called bernoulli's effect.....
Build it, shake the box and assemble it who cares. enjoy your hobby because it is YOUR hobby not the next guys...... I'll help anyone that wants the help whether it is an ARF or a kit or scratch built airplane because I like the commaradrie that comes along with fooling around with these model airplanes.
David Reid
BVM, JetCat Rep
ORIGINAL: charlie1960
smells a bit like elitism...
i dont know why some would think their better than others. does not wind under the wing create lift.....??? be it arf or kit built.
we all, started at the bottom.
Good Day, Gentlemen.
smells a bit like elitism...
i dont know why some would think their better than others. does not wind under the wing create lift.....??? be it arf or kit built.
we all, started at the bottom.
Good Day, Gentlemen.
Build it, shake the box and assemble it who cares. enjoy your hobby because it is YOUR hobby not the next guys...... I'll help anyone that wants the help whether it is an ARF or a kit or scratch built airplane because I like the commaradrie that comes along with fooling around with these model airplanes.
David Reid
BVM, JetCat Rep
You are right, the one with the wind beneath the wings thing was Bette Midler...
gerry
01-09-2012, 02:26 PM
#67
RE: Modeler or ARfer?
ORIGINAL: Ron101
Builder, ARFer, Checkbook flyers (wish I was one) rubber band powered, nitro powered, kero, gas, free flight, 3d, slope soarer, FPV, electric, EDF... you name it
it all = grown men with toy airplanes to the outside viewer.... you must be bored to worry about suck things, I must be bored to read 3 pages worth of it
Go have a BBQ at the field with your friends and fly, you need to get away from paint fumes and have some fun [&:]
Builder, ARFer, Checkbook flyers (wish I was one
) rubber band powered, nitro powered, kero, gas, free flight, 3d, slope soarer, FPV, electric, EDF... you name itit all = grown men with toy airplanes to the outside viewer.... you must be bored to worry about suck things, I must be bored to read 3 pages worth of it
Go have a BBQ at the field with your friends and fly, you need to get away from paint fumes and have some fun [&:]
Easy for you to say, in the West Coast:-) Over here the buns refuse to leave the bag, and the hamburgers hang on to the wrapper... (at least until spring)...
Gerry
01-09-2012, 02:34 PM
#68
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RE: Modeler or ARfer?
Here we go again with this debate!
I'm a modeler and could really give a rats hind end what others think of me. I have 2 plans built planes that I built from scratch and fly regularly and another 2 on the table, I have numerous kit built planes and way to many arf's to count including a new GP Waco and Hangar 9 Pulse 125 that I got for christmas and just spent the last two weeks BUILDING them.
A modeler is a modeler is a modeler. Most of them take an arf out of the box and build it then fly it. We have a few in our club who purchase already flying planes or kit's or arf's and have someone else BUILD them then they just fly them. If that's what makes them happy and thats what they need to do to enjoy the hobby more power to them, they are welcome at our field and welcome in my shop any time they want.
However when the guy shows up with his "I'm a BUILDER and I BUILT this _______________ and there for I am a better Modeler than you" shows up we have plenty of people around to show him the way back out the gate he entered through.
So go ahead and start shooting at me but if a guy shows up with his new Hobbico Nexstar ARF that he just assembled and starts talking about what he did while BUILDING it, he's welcome to our club and will be treated equally. Why do these overbearing pompus *****'s insist on running people down and ultimately out of the hobby. Take your self prescribed Master Builder title to some other place and leave the builders with their ARF's around here alone.
I'm a modeler and could really give a rats hind end what others think of me. I have 2 plans built planes that I built from scratch and fly regularly and another 2 on the table, I have numerous kit built planes and way to many arf's to count including a new GP Waco and Hangar 9 Pulse 125 that I got for christmas and just spent the last two weeks BUILDING them.
A modeler is a modeler is a modeler. Most of them take an arf out of the box and build it then fly it. We have a few in our club who purchase already flying planes or kit's or arf's and have someone else BUILD them then they just fly them. If that's what makes them happy and thats what they need to do to enjoy the hobby more power to them, they are welcome at our field and welcome in my shop any time they want.
However when the guy shows up with his "I'm a BUILDER and I BUILT this _______________ and there for I am a better Modeler than you" shows up we have plenty of people around to show him the way back out the gate he entered through.
So go ahead and start shooting at me but if a guy shows up with his new Hobbico Nexstar ARF that he just assembled and starts talking about what he did while BUILDING it, he's welcome to our club and will be treated equally. Why do these overbearing pompus *****'s insist on running people down and ultimately out of the hobby. Take your self prescribed Master Builder title to some other place and leave the builders with their ARF's around here alone.
01-09-2012, 02:57 PM
#69
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RE: Modeler or ARfer?
In the old days there were no ARFS only sticks and slabs, as time progresses so has technology. So it should not surprise anyone that the ARF was born.
I believe the ARF has brought more flyers to the field and I like that.
I remember the days glueing, sanding and covering models and how I wished there was an easier way.
I respect all flyers at the field and will train anyone with a capable plane...
I believe the ARF has brought more flyers to the field and I like that.
I remember the days glueing, sanding and covering models and how I wished there was an easier way.
I respect all flyers at the field and will train anyone with a capable plane...
01-09-2012, 02:59 PM
#70
RE: Modeler or ARfer?
Easy for you to say, in the West Coast:-) Over here the buns refuse to leave the bag, and the hamburgers hang on to the wrapper... (at least until spring)...
Gerry
Gerry
ohh I forgot it gets cold in some places [8D] now that explains why he is bored... I on the other hand have no good excuse except I'm at work I have an idea, instead of coming off negative wouldn’t you be better off to encourage folks in different aspects of the hobby to try building scale. It is a very rewarding, exciting side of the hobby. I have arf’s and kits… I enjoy having a long term project in the shop to dream about.
Maybe some guys don’t have the time… you may want to talk to them about having the ARF’s to fly then buy one nice kit for a long term project, offer to give them advice and help them with the build if needed.
I’m sure once they fly a plane they built themselves; they will see what it’s all about. But maybe they will find building is not for them… either way you tried to promote the hobby in a positive way, not coming off arrogant and negative.
01-09-2012, 03:03 PM
#71
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RE: Modeler or ARfer?
Without joining in the pissing match..
I can imagine it gets pretty frustrating to bust your ass working on an airplane, putting hundreds of hours into the finish, then taking it to a jet meet and getting beaten out for a 'best finish' award by someone who wrote a check to Skymaster for one of their Tiger Meet painted airplanes or something.
Let's face it.. while most of us generally don't worry about the awards at a jet meet, or any other sort of non-competitive fly-in, a little validation from your peers for your hard work never hurts either.
I can imagine it gets pretty frustrating to bust your ass working on an airplane, putting hundreds of hours into the finish, then taking it to a jet meet and getting beaten out for a 'best finish' award by someone who wrote a check to Skymaster for one of their Tiger Meet painted airplanes or something.
Let's face it.. while most of us generally don't worry about the awards at a jet meet, or any other sort of non-competitive fly-in, a little validation from your peers for your hard work never hurts either.
01-09-2012, 03:18 PM
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RE: Modeler or ARfer?
Thank you Doug for your positive comments. At the fall Hamburg event it was nice to see the builders get the awards over the arfs and checkbook fliers for once lately.
01-09-2012, 03:20 PM
#74
RE: Modeler or ARfer?
some congratulations are in order for this thread making RCU front page, now all the riffraff that really haven't a clue about what the true meaning behind this tread is, will be commenting!!! where's the pattern guys?
01-09-2012, 03:24 PM
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RE: Modeler or ARfer?
If you are in the hobby to get awarded, look elsewhere. I understand the frustration of someone who spends lots of hours building a model and the one with the most money wins the beauty contest.
Not fair, like many things in life. The one who knows how to play the system wins.
So maybe you should propose having separate categories in the competition you talk about.
I am happy for a compliment I get for a model I build, but I am not looking to take a shiny trophy home and don't need any of that attention. I am in the hobby because I enjoy flying rc planes. And I like to build things in the winter and spend more time at the field in the summer.
Just pure fun for me. I have some ARFs too and they are nicely build and fly great. And I do not care if someone buys only ARFs, I welcome him or her to the great hobby and don't look down on them.
Not fair, like many things in life. The one who knows how to play the system wins.
So maybe you should propose having separate categories in the competition you talk about.
I am happy for a compliment I get for a model I build, but I am not looking to take a shiny trophy home and don't need any of that attention. I am in the hobby because I enjoy flying rc planes. And I like to build things in the winter and spend more time at the field in the summer.
Just pure fun for me. I have some ARFs too and they are nicely build and fly great. And I do not care if someone buys only ARFs, I welcome him or her to the great hobby and don't look down on them.