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Old 04-18-2002, 09:54 PM
  #1  
marcpam
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Default Love f-16's

I am currently flying a king kobra which is kind of like a jet/pattern plane. I am dying to get into the ducted fans before i go turbine. I am wondering if i can jump into an f-16 as a starter for ducted fans. Keep in mind that i can tear up the sky with the king kobra in any way. Now to get to my question, I am looking at the BVM and Yellow F16. What are the advantage and disadvantage of each kit. Price is no matter. Please give me some feedback as what to do in both cases. Thanks.
Old 04-20-2002, 01:50 PM
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Axel
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Default Love f-16's

WOW...what a coincidence. I'm from the Dominican Republic. I actually fly a King Kobra with an O.S. 61 along with a Hot Spot that already has like 40 flights in it. But the big thing is that I'm finishing a Spider Jets F-16 with a P-120 installed in it. I'm a huge F-16 fan which is my favorite jet. Once I had an A-4 Skyhawk DF from JHH and it was a waste of money. There's no use to it, the Hot Spot is a tremendous turbine-jet trainer so "my" advice is not to waste any money in DF.

If you want I can send you a couple of picts of my F-16, I finished it in the Belgium Tiger Meet scheme. I'm flying it in about two weeks from now.

But if you're really going to buy a DF, go for the BVM by far it is a terrific kit. I've seen it a lot in the jet events.

Hope this helps.
Old 04-21-2002, 11:49 PM
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marcpam
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Default Love f-16's

Do you think that i can handle a bvm f16 model if i was to get it as my next plane. Like i mentioned above, i currently flying a king kobra.
Old 04-22-2002, 10:29 AM
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geneh-RCU
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Default Love f-16's

Just remember that Jets land different than any sport planes that I have ever flown! I have been flying for 26 years and have flown pattern, Pylon, Copters etc. You could handle the F16 in the air and might be able to land ok as well depending on how much time you have flying. I think that If you go straight to a turbine plane I would get somthing like a Bobcat or a Roo. These land better and slower than most of the scale jets! learn to walk before you try to run!

Welcome to Jets!
Old 04-22-2002, 11:34 AM
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Axel
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Default Love f-16's

In my case I would use your money to buy me a Hot Spot or a Bob Cat and learn to fly turbines. Again, I have a Hot Spot and it flies very well. I have the King Kobra as well to warm up some times.
Old 05-01-2002, 08:46 AM
  #6  
Shaun Evans
 
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Default F-16

To the guy who thinks the Yellow F-16 is a waste of money:


Have you seen the new F-16C kit? It doesn't sound like it. Let me say first that I've owned the old F-16C kit and the BVM F-16C kit. I agree that the BVM kit is much better than the old F-16C. I really do. In fact...

I bought the old Yellow F-16C kit from a friend in Oceanside, CA. It came with the landing gear and all. I was very impressed with the machining on the gear and the wheels, but I was only satisfied with the kit itself. I began construction, though. At the time, I was working as the full-time manager of Discount Hobby Warehouse in San Diego. Our store was (and still is) a proud dealer for BVM. A customer came in and ordered a BVM F-16 kit, and when it came in, he didn't immediately come in to pick it up. Figuring that I had a couple days to put everything back in the box as though nothing had happened, I decided to break it open and have a look:-) What I saw impressed me very much. The engineering in the BVM kit looked much better, the materials were better and the LANDING GEAR DOORS looked like they'd actually fit right (they weren't two pieces that needed to be glued impossibly together). The wings and stabs seemed stronger, though heavier, and the plans were much better. By the time I had gotten the kit back in the box, I had decided to sell my Yellow F-16 kit and put the money toward a BVM one. I bought the BVM kit with landing gear and I was very happy with it. For the most part, I enjoyed the building, and I only grew more impressed with the kit as I went. Though the landing gear weren't as scale, they had shock absorbtion in the mains, and I liked that better.

Later, I became a Rep for Yellow Aircraft. I was honored and pleased to, but I ended up selling my 80% finished BVM F-16C for obvious reasons. I didn't want to, but I did. I was advised by my sponsor not to worry, because the Yellow F-16 was being 'redesigned', and that shortly, I would be glad that I switched. Well, after about a year, I got one of the first of the NEW Yellow Aircraft F-16 kits.

Let me tell you something that you'll agree with upon first glance at the new F-16 kit: It is not only AWESOME, but it is far superior to any other F-16 kit of similar size on the market. Here are some features:

--Pre-primed, highly detailed carbon reinforced epoxy glass fuselage
--Removable wings with dual solid carbon spars as standard
--Removable dorsal fin and vertical stab with carbon tube and bearing as standard
--Dual ball-bearing supported titanium stabilator shafts with all-metal control blocks
--Wings and stabs have carbon cloth epoxied between the foam cores and the balsa sheeting for a VERY strong and rigid surface
--Fiberglass framed canopy that opens and closes as standard, including special canopy hinges
--Precut, carbon laminated landing gear doors
--Fiberglass molded scale missle rails and tail hook included as standard
--Very scale landing gear (including the nose) with scale metal wheels that are ball-bearing supported (no brass bushings)

This kit is suitable for DF or turbine use. This new style and materials-makeup is the new thing with Yellow. Check one out, and tell me what you think. In the end, I think you'd agree that it's a whole different animal. Oh yeah, it doesn't just stop with kit features, either. Ask people who've FLOWN BOTH which one flies better.

The total cost of the NEW Yellow F-16C kit with EVERYTHING (kit, landing gear, wheels and brakes, air cylinders, blah-blah-blah) is about $100 more than the cost of the BVM F-16 kit alone (no gear or anything else).

Is the BVM F-16 an awesome kit and an awesome airplane? You bet. Is the new Yellow F-16 better? You bet!

I'll get some pics of mine up here soon.

Thanks for reading the novel....
Old 05-01-2002, 09:25 AM
  #7  
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Default Love f-16's

Axel,
Àre you saying that DF's are a waste of time if one has a roo/hotspot? I am in the similar boat as marcpam...I fly pattern and have a new ready to fly JHH Sabre...which I have NEVER flown yet...I am also building a roo with a turbine...I have 100's of hours of turbine stick time on G2...and I think i am a pretty decent pilot. So u think I could skip the DF and just jump right on to the roo? There was a discussion on this topic long back on RCU...and the experts still said that DF's are the best way of getting into jets.

anurag
Old 05-01-2002, 01:31 PM
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Axel
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Default Love f-16's

Anurag,

In my case, I´ve never flown a DF in my life, I had a JHH A-4 and it was a disaster. I bought a RTF Hot Spot and with training in turbines from a friend we flew the airplane together. My friend who has much more experience than me flying radio control airplanes also didn´t have any experience flying turbines. So we took the risk and flew the Hot Spot. He gave it to me in the air, and like in 4 flights I was flying it all by my own.

If you were asking me an advice, I would suggest to get some help from some one who has your turbine and don´t make an investment in DF, not in these days, where you´ve got thousands of new things for turbines. My guess is that eventually the DF market is going to be very little.

Just remember that you´re not going to be flying a King Kobra anymore, the Roo/HS have a different flying scheme, but it´s the same pattern, very easy to fly. Just remember to make wide turns in the beggining and take it easy, don´t do anything stupid, just relax and fly your turbine.

Axel
Old 05-01-2002, 03:50 PM
  #9  
Chris Z
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Default YellowAircraft

YellowAircraft,
can I get your phone number? My friend is interested in a Y/A F-16.
Chris Zonio
Old 05-01-2002, 07:19 PM
  #10  
Shaun Evans
 
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Default Love f-16's

Ramtec2,

I'm curious where you saw the new instructions without seeing the new kit. You're perfectly wrong about them, since the instructions and photo set are completely new for this kit as very little is the same in the construction. The only thing similar about the two instruction books is the photo on the front cover! LOL. Your opinion is your own right, but at least try to be factual. What you said about the instructions is just flat wrong.

"Modify all the mistakes of the first kit..." How would you know if you haven't seen the kit? They didn't modify them, they eliminated them. The weight comparison you mentioned? Are you guessing? You must be because the new kit is lighter, not heavier. That marginal performance you mentioned, what's that exactly? The new kit flies level at 165 mph with Dynamax power. At this kit's scale, that's considerably faster than an F-16 should fly. How is that marginal?
'...the inlet is just about the same...' Does that mean the same as slightly different? If so, you're right, the new inlet is slightly different. Modified for improved performance, bigger area.
"...all they did was go from polyester resin to epoxy resin..." Well, actually, the new F-16 is from a completely different mold, and as I mentioned, the new epoxy fuselage is carbon-inlaid and pre-primed. The fact that it's from a different mold is immediately apparent upon first glance. Why do so many people (without signatures) come in here and talk what they don't know?

I don't mean to take issue with you personally, I just thought I'd respond to your comments regarding the new kit. It's plain to me, and anyone who's seen both the new and old kits, that you haven't seen the new kit at all. You're making comments about flight performance of an airplane that hasn't been flown as a ducted fan yet, other than the factory reps' test flights (it's that new). A little half-cocked maybe?

Maybe you would get a bigger F-16 for turbine power. Cool. Good luck with it, but that wasn't the issue I was addressing. I was speaking to the comparison between .91-sized F-16 kits, letting those readers who might not otherwise know, that the comparison between the kits Ramtec1 was talking about doesn't really count anymore, since the Yellow kit he mentions isn't available any longer, in favor of a new, improved one. If you don't like the old F-16, I can see why. If you don't want to own or fly the new one, then by all means, excercise your right not to! But, please, don't give the uninformed newby false information like that. It's not fair to them, and certainly not fair to Yellow Aircraft. Thanks.

By the way, for interested parties, you can email me at [email protected], and I'll be happy to give you my number.
Old 05-01-2002, 08:53 PM
  #11  
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Default Ducted fans

Ragz


There is nothing wrong going to D/F route, i too own a BVM F-86 powered with BVM 91 (now bvm .96) and never had a problem with the engine starting quiting etc...

I believe its a good learning experience if you want to get into turbines again like meself, i figure whats the rush, so i might as well take my time and enjoy what i'm flying now. And get into turbines when the time is right.

From what i have seem most people (Not all, as above) who rush wanting to fly turbine jets with not much experence end up crashing there jet within the first few flights.

Ask the experienced jet guys on this fourm and i bet most of the flew ducted fan before turbines.
Old 05-02-2002, 09:10 AM
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AEsquire23
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Default Love f-16's

I've been watching this thread for a while now, and I can't stay out of it any longer. Who on earth are you Ramtec guys? You have no idea at all what you're talking about with the new Yellow F-16. Ramtec2, either you've never seen it (and are just a biased liar), or you need some serious vision care. What a crock. I have (or have had) all three F-16's mentioned, and the old Yellow F-16 and the new one are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. Yellow Aircraft (Shawn) is absolutely right about the new kit. I don't like the bump in the inlet, but big deal. It looks better than the BVM Falcon, and it comes all apart for travel. Half the money. The only thing you said that was correct was the Yellow F-16 lands like a ***** cat. Shawn nailed it, you have no clue what you're saying.

Just my opinion as a proud BVM Falcon owner

R. Valley,
Spokane, Wa.
Old 05-04-2002, 04:07 PM
  #13  
jayman
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Default Love f-16's

I don't usually get involved in these forums but, I can not believe you ramtec guy's!!! You are doing nothing but spreading poison. You have nothing better to do but put out worthless information on something you know nothing about.
AEsquire23 hit it right on the nose! The old F-16 and the new one are totally different beast. I've owned the old and recently brought the new so I KNOW WHAT IS WHAT! Maybe you two should actually do a little research before opening your mouths. Trying to slam a product without FIRST HAND information is not only none productive, it's also RUDE!!!

J. Powell
So. CA
Old 05-05-2002, 07:12 PM
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Shaun Evans
 
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Default Love f-16's

Jay,

Don't be shy, tell us what you REALLY think! Seriously, though, I'm glad to see actual owners of the new kit sharing some info on this thread. I know you haven't begun construction of your new kit, but what are your impressions of it--compared to the old kit? Oh, and please limit your comments to only the positive ones. Just kidding.

Ray Harris took this pic at Best in the West. It's my YAC F-16 (new kit).



http://airrayinc.com/bestwest4/11Mvc-004f.jpg
Old 05-05-2002, 07:45 PM
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Default panel lines

i guess you decided not to go over the panel lines with pencil/marker? either that or i just can't see them.

nice looking shaun....i must say.....

have you powered it yet?

did you go with the air start version?

How did it fly? pretty scale?


catcha later.
Old 05-07-2002, 06:18 AM
  #16  
SDCrashmaster
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Default Love f-16's

If you're standing firmly on what you know...you'd better be looking for a chair real quick like!
Here's a shot of Mr. Evans' YA F16.
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Old 05-07-2002, 06:31 AM
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One more...Ramtec
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Old 05-07-2002, 07:04 AM
  #18  
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Default Love f-16's

Ramtec1 and 2, are you guys reps for Trim Aircraft? If not, I'd question your right to use sigs like that, especially when slamming another manufacturers product.

Maybe I'm easily pleased, but I have what must have been one of the last of the old Yellow F-16C kits and I'm happy enough building it. It's glassed and on it's wheels although I still have to tackle the gear doors before it is ready for paint. The gear doors look like a bit of a challenge, but I'm sure they can be made to fit and work okay if you have done gear doors before.

The instructions weren't BVM standard, but I didn't think they were THAT bad and I thought the parts fit was quite adequate considering the price.

I did make a few modifications along the way, like converting the tails to dual-ball bearing support/powered by separate servos and beefing a couple of areas up with carbon cloth and uni-directional carbon.

I have the new style landing gear and it is very slick, so I can't compare it to previous versions.

The only reason I haven't finished it off is because I am tempted to wait for the 12lb turbines to mature a little longer before strapping one of those into it and seeing what it can really do.


Regards,
Garrett
Old 05-07-2002, 11:29 AM
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DavidR
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Default Love f-16's

I have one of the old style YA F-16's and it was an OK kit. It needed some modifications to several areas but overall it built into a decent airplane. I also had a BVM F-16 but did not build the kit before I sold it. I have not seen the new YA kit yet other than pictures on the net, but it appears they have improved it in several areas. I did think the old instructions were terrible, the pictures were bad photocopies that were all but impossible to see important construction information. In MY opinion this is the main place that YA needed to improve their kits.

Anyone that can bash a manufacturer should at least have the balls to sign their name!


David Reid
Old 05-07-2002, 12:51 PM
  #20  
Shawnusa
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Default Back on topic

Without getting into Kit manufacture bashing. I have a honest question in regards to the Poly version of Yellows F-16c, which I will be a owner of in a few weeks time. It's and un-finished kit at this time and I was wanting to know if you could supply me with things I might want to change, update or improve on this kit. I intend to use a DF for starters, as I'm really new to the jet scene.

Also YellowAircraft or anyone who knows, does this kit support the F-16c scale gear? If so, does it require mods? Anyway, I'm hoping you can help me in preparing to make my kit build to it's best. Thanks


Shawnusa

PS. Let's get back to flyin.. not BS'in
Old 05-07-2002, 04:50 PM
  #21  
AirRayInc
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Default Love f-16's

ramtec-ish II; Its a pity that you dont live here in southern California, it would be my pleasure to meet you, and help give you a more pleasureable exposure to rc aircrafts, jets in general, but just the sport itself. You harbor alot of strong feelings, I for one am sorry that you have to find lashing out as your release. Try going for a walk, or rowing, I row, its great for the upper body and cardio.

I try to stay clear of all the negative posts, and I know they are always gonna be there, but looks like I have been caught in a weak moment. If there is nothing here for you, then by all means, surf away, until something makes you smile, or stimulates in a positive sense.

Best of luck,

Ray

(his eyes open) :stupid:
Old 05-07-2002, 04:55 PM
  #22  
Chris Z
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Default Love f-16's

Nicely put Ray.
CZ
Old 05-07-2002, 05:27 PM
  #23  
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Default jesus what a whiner..

just quit posting, just that the last time you whined about "take me out dramatically, delete my account..what bs get a spine
Old 05-07-2002, 05:30 PM
  #24  
Chris Z
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Default Love f-16's

"Also YellowAircraft or anyone who knows, does this kit support the F-16c scale gear? If so, does it require mods? Anyway, I'm hoping you can help me in
preparing the mae my kit build to it's best. Thanks "


Shawnusa,
I'm really sure that the Old F-16C was designed for the scale gear. That was one of the differences between the Yellow F-16C and the Yellow F-16A. The "A" sold for less and was design for semi- scale applications- no scale gear (just struts). More of a grass field flyer, it was my first jet (The "A" model) and aways flew great!
Hopefully that'll help.
Chris Zonio
Old 05-07-2002, 08:20 PM
  #25  
Shaun Evans
 
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Default Love f-16's

CZonio is correct...

The new scale gear will work with the old F-16C version. They will not work with the A version, though.

Keep in mind that the old Yellow F-16 was designed a long time ago. By today's standards, the engineering and mechanics aren't up to the level of BV's Falcon or even Yellow's new one. As time goes on, these kits get better and better. It's refreshing to hear you guys (the ones who sign your names) come chime in on the knuckleheads that stand in the shadows and throw stones. Thanks.

Ramtecs, thanks for the relief....


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