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Eneloop Batteries - Charging

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Old 02-26-2012, 08:50 AM
  #26
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Default RE: Eneloop Batteries - Charging

Do they make subC Eneloop ?
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Old 02-26-2012, 08:52 AM
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Default RE: Eneloop Batteries - Charging

The obvious question that no one has asked is why anyone would use Eneloop cells when A123 cells are so much better. They can be charge at 4 amps or even higher so charge in a few minutes, don't appear to false peak, last a very long time, can be run flat and can be revived, run at a nice even voltage and are a protected metal cased cell and do not spontaneously combust.

John
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Old 02-26-2012, 09:20 AM
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Default RE: Eneloop Batteries - Charging


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Jgwright

The obvious question that no one has asked is why anyone would use Eneloop cells when A123 cells are so much better. They can be charge at 4 amps or even higher so charge in a few minutes, don't appear to false peak, last a very long time, can be run flat and can be revived, run at a nice even voltage and are a protected metal cased cell and do not spontaneously combust.

John
The obvious answer to your obvious question is that I can't seem to get them to fit in my 12X or 12 FGA, no matter how much I mash them.....

TA
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Old 02-26-2012, 09:47 AM
  #29
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Default RE: Eneloop Batteries - Charging

Tom

The question was posed in relation to the Rx not the Tx. As a fellow 12 Fg user I sympathise about the battery. I have a small 2100 Lipo that I can use if need be. Perhaps we could get Futaba to make the Tx's from now on with A123 cells.



John
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Old 02-26-2012, 10:55 AM
  #30
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Default RE: Eneloop Batteries - Charging

Hi Guys, I have been using Mr. Nicad/Battery's America Eneloop 2000ma batteries in my Futaba transmitters,for over a year now with NO problems,using a Alpha 4 charger,charging a 2000ma battery at the rate of 120ma.I read along time ago that hydroxide battery's do not like to be fast or peak charged.If your having problems charging them you may be better off using a 100ma over night std.wall charger. in stead of a peak charger. The charge rate is written on the label,std. charge rate is 14 hours@200ma[:-] thanks ED
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Old 02-26-2012, 11:01 AM
  #31
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Default RE: Eneloop Batteries - Charging

Hi Tom,

Do you charge the eneloops in your 12X with the orbit? I have the orbit too and when i connect the cable to the back of the 12X the orbit will not detect any battery connected, am i missing something.
Thanks in advance.

Chatty.


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Tom Antlfinger

Hi Chad:

Not sure what you mean by shortening life over 500ma. I am still using the packs you sold to me for my 12X, actually just after you first started selling them. Can't remember if that was 2008 or 2009. So your packs have held up close to 4 years. Still capacity discharge to 1950-2050 maH.

I always charge at 1 amp with an Orbit Pocketlader with the peak drop set to 5mv.

I have plotted the charge cycles on my Orbit PocketLader charger which outputs to my computer. I have found that 5mv peak gives the sharpest cutoff, no matter what the charge rate from 250ma up to 2000ma. Unfortunately, many chargers are either set to the old standard of 8mv for NiMh and 12mv for NiCd, with no way of adjusting that parameter. That leads to a peaking error, in that the charge algorithm delays the shutoff and the overcharge begins. This is most noticeable at the very low charge rates of 250-300ma.

I remember battery guru, Red Scholefield, talking about this false peaking of NiMh years back.

I do take good care of my cells, exercising them regularly during the 4-5 months of winter, discharging 1000maH after a full charge, keeping them at about 68F, not stored below freezing, and keeping them at full charge when in storage as opposed to A123 and LiPo's that do better at about 70% storage charge. I do this every 2 weeks during down time.

I suspect that life shortening may be the result of false peaking/overcharge, rather than simply the higher charge rate itself. No where in Sanyo's literature can I find that charging at C/2 or 1 amp will seriously shorten life.

Tom



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Old 02-26-2012, 11:18 AM
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Default RE: Eneloop Batteries - Charging

Yes John agree A123 (LiFe) are much better, but problem is the voltage, (without a regulator) especially when using JR servos.

There is now available LiFe 9.9v packs for transmitters
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Old 02-26-2012, 11:25 AM
  #33
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Default RE: Eneloop Batteries - Charging


Quote:
ORIGINAL: vasek

Do they make subC Eneloop ?
Never seen a sub C eneloop, but they make an adaptor which will accept your AA eneloop and convert it into a C or D cell.

Chatty.
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Old 02-26-2012, 11:49 AM
  #34
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Default RE: Eneloop Batteries - Charging

How about one of these:

http://www.tnrbattery.com/hr-dux-1-2...fdk-batteries/

You can use them for nose weight.

Bob
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Old 02-26-2012, 12:32 PM
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Default RE: Eneloop Batteries - Charging

Hi Guy, I don't know? The reason that I like them in my transmitters is because they last a long time,I have had 10volts on the transmitter display after 7 hours of use,using the Hitec 2.4conversion with receiver battery telemetry,which also uses more power. Also the transmitter low voltage warnings (8.4) volts is still active.If I had a lipo,and forgot to turn off the transmitter,and it hit 8.4 volts,Throw out the lipo battery.[:@] Thanks ed
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Old 02-26-2012, 03:11 PM
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Default RE: Eneloop Batteries - Charging


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Xairflyer

Yes John agree A123 (LiFe) are much better, but problem is the voltage, (without a regulator) especially when using JR servos.

There is now available LiFe 9.9v packs for transmitters
Seamus

I'v been using A123's with JR servo's for some time without a problem, what have I missed.

Mike
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Old 02-26-2012, 04:34 PM
  #37
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Default RE: Eneloop Batteries - Charging

I think it is well documented about JR servo's not liking higher voltages, seems apparent more so with a freshly charged pack when the voltage is up near 7v.

On the Airworld L39 I worked on the Jr 8411 Servos would move on their own and jitter with A123 packs, we fitted a 3A diode to the positive lead from the battery to sort it out as the diode dropped the voltage .6v, it was easier than changing everything, fitting powerbox switch regulator etc.

Dont know if this problem is with all JR servos as all I ever use is 4cells but does effect some of the digital ones.
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Old 02-26-2012, 04:58 PM
  #38
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Default RE: Eneloop Batteries - Charging

That's really not a problem. When a 5 cell nicad pack first comes off charge it can be over 7.0 volts. That can cause one or two servos to jitter. All you have to do is wiggle the sticks a couple of times. That drops the voltage 0.1 or 0.2, the jitter stops, then go fly.

I use JR servos and unregulated 5 cell nicad packs on all my planes, and have done so for 15 years and thousands of flights. I don't know if only certain JR servos do this, I haven't paid that much attention because it doesn't happen very often and it's never been a problem. I'd be suprised if other brands of servos don't do the same thing.

Joe
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Old 02-26-2012, 06:22 PM
  #39
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Default RE: Eneloop Batteries - Charging


Quote:
ORIGINAL: joeflyer

That's really not a problem. When a 5 cell nicad pack first comes off charge it can be over 7.0 volts. That can cause one or two servos to jitter. All you have to do is wiggle the sticks a couple of times. That drops the voltage 0.1 or 0.2, the jitter stops, then go fly.

I use JR servos and unregulated 5 cell nicad packs on all my planes, and have done so for 15 years and thousands of flights. I don't know if only certain JR servos do this, I haven't paid that much attention because it doesn't happen very often and it's never been a problem. I'd be suprised if other brands of servos don't do the same thing.

Joe
Same here Joe... 5 cell NiCad's for ever on JR servo's, and now A123's unregulated. NO problems. Have had the occasional jitter you speak of fresh off charge with 5 cell NiCad's and A123's... Wiggle things a bit and go fly.No problem..... EVER.!!!


Danno
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Old 02-26-2012, 07:32 PM
  #40
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Default RE: Eneloop Batteries - Charging

I've been running JR 8411s on an A123 2300 pack for 2 seasons now with satisfactory results and zero jitters however on the initial test run up of the model when it was brand spanking new I had the left elevator 8411 go hard over in the full up position. Sent it back to Horizon and got a free replacement but the tech told me I must have abused the servo or had it setup wrong because it was totally fried and it was the last replacement he would give me. Don't know what that was all about but I've been fine ever since with no problems.
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Old 02-26-2012, 07:42 PM
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Default RE: Eneloop Batteries - Charging

I have a couple of JR retract servos in my Jug that will not operate off of the A123 battery I have on board unless there is voltage reduction. I think they are jr 791s. I put a couple of inline reducers on that channel to operate, otherwise, they will not move... at all.

I like the idea of c/10 slow charging Nimh, but think the most common problem is the peak detection missing the peak and cooking the battery. So I am in favor of using a little higher rate, say 300- 1/2 amp as it seems to hit the peak more reliably. Something else you can do on most chargers is set a limitation of the mah that will go in just in case it misses the peak. Most of the x4, B6, hota charger programs have this ability in the user settings.

Its funny how you hear all of these charge rate recommendations in such a broad range. I think you have to keep in mind that recommendations from the place that makes them might be suggesting a rate based on a life of 1 year or shorter. Whereas, I'm trying to figure out how to make my batteries last longer. Also a consideration that the marketing department knows that batteries run hot and hard will need to be replaced faster. I'll bet you can charge the cells at 100 amps.... for a minute, and maybe only twice.
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Old 02-26-2012, 07:43 PM
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Default RE: Eneloop Batteries - Charging

i have several setups with JR servos and A123 batts, no problems at all, no jitters even fresh off charge.
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Old 02-26-2012, 10:57 PM
  #43
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Default RE: Eneloop Batteries - Charging

I have been using Sirius Charge Quad

Digital Peak Charger for Large Scale Aircraft and Transmitter Batteries

with my ENELOOP batteries sinve 2005 and i have no issues at all.

http://www.siriuselectronics.com/ind...45ehdgfsr6crd1
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Old 02-27-2012, 04:52 AM
  #44
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Default RE: Eneloop Batteries - Charging

Quote:
ORIGINAL: Xairflyer

Yes John agree A123 (LiFe) are much better, but problem is the voltage, (without a regulator) especially when using JR servos.

There is now available LiFe 9.9v packs for transmitters
I use A123 genuine ones with JR servos -never an issue from largest to smallest ones -digital/analogue etc..
Some heli servos may have been 5 v -I never use that type
Futaba and some Hi tec- anothe rissue!
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Old 02-27-2012, 04:55 AM
  #45
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Default RE: Eneloop Batteries - Charging


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Capgains

I have a couple of JR retract servos in my Jug that will not operate off of the A123 battery I have on board unless there is voltage reduction. I think they are jr 791s. I put a couple of inline reducers on that channel to operate, otherwise, they will not move... at all.

I like the idea of c/10 slow charging Nimh, but think the most common problem is the peak detection missing the peak and cooking the battery. So I am in favor of using a little higher rate, say 300- 1/2 amp as it seems to hit the peak more reliably. Something else you can do on most chargers is set a limitation of the mah that will go in just in case it misses the peak. Most of the x4, B6, hota charger programs have this ability in the user settings.

Its funny how you hear all of these charge rate recommendations in such a broad range. I think you have to keep in mind that recommendations from the place that makes them might be suggesting a rate based on a life of 1 year or shorter. Whereas, I'm trying to figure out how to make my batteries last longer. Also a consideration that the marketing department knows that batteries run hot and hard will need to be replaced faster. I'll bet you can charge the cells at 100 amps.... for a minute, and maybe only twice.
25 amps on A123 (the genuine ones - yes) - direct chargeing from lead acid using a resistance wire ONLY
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Old 02-27-2012, 06:35 AM
  #46
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Default RE: Eneloop Batteries - Charging

I, like the others have not had a problem with fully charged A123's in days past I have seen five cell Nimh come off the charger at 7.9volts, the A123's can come off the charger with a higher voltage, but after a few mins they stabalise at under or just on 7volts, does not seem to be a problem.

Mike
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Old 02-27-2012, 06:58 AM
  #47
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Default RE: Eneloop Batteries - Charging

I must be missing something..I bought an enloop battery from rc accesory a couple years back .charge it routinely on my futaba wall charger unit and never have an issue.was going to get a lipo but this works equally as well given its tecnology .find its very reliable and see no reason to change.
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Old 02-27-2012, 10:08 AM
  #48
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Default RE: Eneloop Batteries - Charging

As I understand it, charging Enelops using your 50 or 70 mA wall wart is fine and is actually the preferred method according to some vendors. But you have to chose the charge time appropriately. Don't just let it sit under charge forever. I typically charge when the voltage gets down to 9.6 for a duration that will put about 1100 mAh back into the pack. (At 9.6 V the pack should be down to about 50%).

I think the confusion arises when we start to talk about peak-detect chargers. Then we need to charge at a higher rate in order to get a reliable peak. But if your charger misses the peak then you cook the pack. Alternatively, one can terminate the charge when temperature goes up, but that gets complicated also, as the pack must be removed from the transmitter and placed in a controlled thermal enviornment.
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Old 02-27-2012, 10:49 AM
  #49
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Default RE: Eneloop Batteries - Charging

If you must charge with a wall charger them at least make sure it is suitable for Nimh batteries and not just Nicad
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Old 02-27-2012, 01:33 PM
  #50
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Default RE: Eneloop Batteries - Charging

Wall chargers don't know the difference. They are just pseudo constant current supplies.
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