erbroens

Seems very reasonable.. thanks for the very good explanation Mark.

Kevin_W

My Feedback: (1)

The Academy of Model Aeronautics provides insurance to RC clubs for their flying sites and secondary liability insurance to individual members. Most clubs in the US require AMA membership in order to join and to fly at their sites. This is to insure that all members have at least a minimum amount of liability coverage.
The AMA requires that you follow their safety code in order to be covered by their insurance, but the AMA safety code forbids turbine powered models unless the pilot is given a special waiver (to "waive" the rule that forbids turbine powered models).

Prop_Washer2

My Feedback: (26)

Actually, I can buy any RC Airplane I want and go fly it, (i.e I can purchase/build a turbine airplane, take it out to a deserted hiway in the desert, and fly the snot out of it),just not at an AMA sanctioned location...

Prop_Washer2

My Feedback: (26)

rhklenke

My Feedback: (24)

Again, if the FAA has it way, then when the sUAS regulations are approved, no, you will not be able to do that - at least not legally anyway...

Bob

AndyAndrews

Anyone can set up a "community-based organization". A person could be their own community based organization.

ira d

I dont think it going to be that simple.

erbroens

No doubt, I think that this is a grey area of legislation. there is not a simple answer to this.

What I witnessed all this years, while visiting many different places in wich waivers aren´t required is that pilot proeficiency level and crash rates are about the same as the U.S. presuming that people have some r/c flying experience.

Seems that cost, complexity and skill required just to break ground with a toy like ours is a waiver by itself.


Enrique

rhklenke

My Feedback: (24)

Agreed.

Bob

ps. Actually the law says (in part):

"...the aircraft is operated in accordance with a community based set of safety guidelines and within the programming of a nationwide community-based organization"

I doubt that someone's own "community-based organization" whould be interpreted as fulfilling that requirement.

ZX11

I will be sure my community-based organization follows FAA rules and not the rules of the AMA company (or money earning club, whatever). My future neighborhood club (we all have farms so we are independent thinkers) will also be called National Modeling Association to ensure people think it is bigger and more powerful than it is. If the AMA is permitted to fully own the American modeling hobby, then next Ford will provide our driver licensing. Same form of Tyranny. There has to be room in America for more modeling associations.

I like the AMA. I will pay them if I start flying at any AMA insured clubs. Unlike others, I don't feel that they own or should own the airplane modeling hobby.

I took the FAA rules to mean that airplane modeling community accepted rules of aircraft flying are followed. Not that the FAA is forcing the American people to pay money to the AMA.

rhklenke

My Feedback: (24)

If you can convince the FAA that your "National Modeling Association" is sufficient, then more power to you. Likely as not, there will be some way that non-AMA members can "use" the AMA rules to comply with that requirement, but there may be a fee involved.

BTW, I'm not sure what your gripe with the AMA is, but they don't own the modeling hobby, but they do "own" the intellectual property of their rules that have been established and proven safe over the years (hence the new law that was passed by the hard work of AMA and its members, for the benefit of all), so, as in any endeavor you undertake in this country, you should expect to pay to use the work of someone else for your own benefit.

Oh, and if you want to follow the FAA rules, then it looks like you can expect to fly a plane less than 25 lbs, at less than 100 knots, and lower then 400'. If that's sufficient for you, again, have at it...

Bob

mr_matt

My Feedback: (10)

this is a hot topic elsewhere.

I 100% feel that the FAA did not intend to force people to join an organization but rather follow the organizations "safety standards".

Problem here is that you cant get a turbine waiver unless you belong to the AMA, at least the way it is set up now.

This little detail is yet to be hammered out.

fred985

you can buy and fly up here,,just not on an ama field. to be insured by ama you have to get the waiver. the only laws that i know of is the faa,,400 ft altitude, within eye sight of the aircarft and 55 lb weight.

ira d

Currently there is no law in effect be it55lb or 400 foot altitude however it is expected to be a law going in effect sometime in 2013 that will have those restrictions and
more one of them being no turbines unless you are a AMA member.

zacharyR

My Feedback: (5)

i thought if under 12 pounds of thrust was no waiver ?

rhklenke

My Feedback: (24)

Nope - *all* turbines require a waiver to fly under AMA insurance...

I agree Matt, I don't think that either the FAA or the writers of the FAA authorization amendment wanted to *require* people to join the AMA. In fact, its probably not constitutional to do so. However, the rub is going to be, "how do you get people to comply with AMA rules if they are not AMA members?" We (AMA members) do it because we want the insurance and we fly at fields organized by AMA clubs (in addition to is just being prudent). What's to keep "Joe Public" from doing whatever they want and then claiming "well I follow AMA rules" whenever someone drops in to see what they are up to?

Bob

AndyAndrews

Its unenforceable. Like they said, they aren't going to go around with RC police everywhere. I don't think anyone is going to have any problems (community based organization or not) unless they try to fly next to an airport.

ira d

I would not go so far as to say the FAA cant enforce it's rule but it will be diffcult, I supect when they do catch someone they will make an example out of them to
put fear in others.

Boomerang1

What's the story if I decide to holiday in the US & bring a jet with me to attend, say CA jets?

The Oz system for certifying jet pilots is different from the US waiver system (if anything it's tougher)
but would that be recognised in the US? I'm a member of Australia's MAAA (our equivalent of the AMA)
is there some international agreement between the two countries? - John.

fireblade5437

Geoff

I know what Mark means and I have a few videos that back that up!

Alan

Geoff White

I know Alan but lets not open up a can of worms.

Xairflyer

My Feedback: (1)

In Ireland according to MACI rules you must have a B cert to fly a turbine model

Dr Honda

My Feedback: (4)

You are fine. The AMA allows visiting pilots to fly. I think the CD of a rally may ask for any supporting paperwork needed to fly down in OZ.

Dr Honda

My Feedback: (4)

Still need the waiver to fly it... but to get your waiver, you need a model that is over 12 Lbs. if the model is under 7.5Lbs, you don't have to install landing gear or brakes.


I know the OP is not in the USA, and it was a good question, but the debate of the guys in the USA is dumb. If you want to be an "outlaw" in the turbine world then do it. But please don't come here, where the majority of the people follow the rules, and debate the letter of the law. Remember... we just had a real scare where turbines could have been banned. The AMA stepped up to protect all of us.


As soon as enough "outlaws" break the RULES... those self governing RULES will be come LAWS. (or a flat out ban) So... cough up your $50, and follow the rules.

With that said... I don't agree 100% with the AMA... but they have done some good things for us over the years. I just wish they would go back to the old ways, where I could opt out of the mag, and pay $30. (the mag is useless, and hits the trash after a 5 minute thumb-threw) Oh... I guess the only good thing is, that they now have a 20% harbor freight coupon in it. (lol)

AndyAndrews

AMA has a temporary waiver process for pilots comming into the country for events. All you have to do is sign the various AMA forms which includes the temporary waiver form for the meet. Your jet has to be inspected for safety to make sure it meets the min. AMA guidlines and The CD has to manage this.