Any word on the Grumania 727
03-13-2012, 06:11 AM
#1
Any word on the Grumania 727
As I am a big airliner fan, and having been keeping on an eye on the offerings of late, I was wondering if there was any word from Ilja in regards to the proposed 727 kit from Grumania that he mentioned a few months ago? Don't keep us in suspense, at least tease us with some photos....haha
Tommy
Tommy
03-13-2012, 08:11 AM
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: MetzingenBaden-W�rttenberg, GERMANY
Posts: 303
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Any word on the Grumania 727
Long time since I heared of you Tommy.The original thread had been deleted so I did forget about the model.There was so much work on other projects like the new Eurofighter kit but fortunately I now have time to work on the airliners again.
The 727 is under progress.
I remember there were quite some comments about the nose section in the original thread. I agree with one of the comments that the cockpit section "is the face of an airliner that gives it character".
I decided to make new molds for the nose section
So, first I looked for some info on the original plane.I was lucky to get original Boeing factory drawings and technical informations - something to start with.
Will try to include some pictures from the work on the model here
Ilja
The 727 is under progress.
I remember there were quite some comments about the nose section in the original thread. I agree with one of the comments that the cockpit section "is the face of an airliner that gives it character".
I decided to make new molds for the nose section
So, first I looked for some info on the original plane.I was lucky to get original Boeing factory drawings and technical informations - something to start with.
Will try to include some pictures from the work on the model here
Ilja
03-13-2012, 09:59 AM
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: MetzingenBaden-W�rttenberg, GERMANY
Posts: 303
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Any word on the Grumania 727
I used the factory drawings to make a CAD drawing of the plane.This was used to make templates for the modification of the nose .
Ilja
Ilja
03-14-2012, 10:46 AM
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: MetzingenBaden-W�rttenberg, GERMANY
Posts: 303
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Any word on the Grumania 727
Next day, checking new shape and making some more cuts to allow deforming the glass fibre. Larger gaps between the "feathers" made it possible to form a new fuselage top
Its beginning to look like a 727 !
Ilja
Its beginning to look like a 727 !
Ilja
Looks great, what are the power requirements on the 727?
03-14-2012, 05:32 PM
#10
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Mississauga,
ON, CANADA
Posts: 4,196
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
RE: Any word on the Grumania 727
ORIGINAL: grumania
Long time since I heared of you Tommy.The original thread had been deleted so I did forget about the model.There was so much work on other projects like the new Eurofighter kit but fortunately I now have time to work on the airliners again.
The 727 is under progress.
I remember there were quite some comments about the nose section in the original thread. I agree with one of the comments that the cockpit section ''is the face of an airliner that gives it character''.
I decided to make new molds for the nose section
So, first I looked for some info on the original plane.I was lucky to get original Boeing factory drawings and technical informations - something to start with.
Will try to include some pictures from the work on the model here
Ilja
Long time since I heared of you Tommy.The original thread had been deleted so I did forget about the model.There was so much work on other projects like the new Eurofighter kit but fortunately I now have time to work on the airliners again.
The 727 is under progress.
I remember there were quite some comments about the nose section in the original thread. I agree with one of the comments that the cockpit section ''is the face of an airliner that gives it character''.
I decided to make new molds for the nose section
So, first I looked for some info on the original plane.I was lucky to get original Boeing factory drawings and technical informations - something to start with.
Will try to include some pictures from the work on the model here
Ilja
I'm into more airliners and propliners Vs military stuff. I prefer friendly behavior vs military attitude. So ILja how long before we can see some kits produced of this model?
03-15-2012, 05:51 AM
#12
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: MetzingenBaden-W�rttenberg, GERMANY
Posts: 303
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Any word on the Grumania 727
A lot of questions - to be true, I just don`t know how this project is going on. My time is limited due to daily business with the jet pipe manufacturing.
I rather see this a s a personel project and now that I got interest in it ( I was a pure jet fighter fan before) I think it is better not to hurry and make something good of it .
The nose correction is the most important thing on this plane.I will make new molds as soon as time allows.For some reasons , I also made plugs for the elevators and will make molds for these also - it is impossible to make these from foam and obechi.
Anyway, I decided not to make all composite wings for two reasons.First, the overall price of the kit would be too high. Concerning the very few sales ( there are not many who like airliners) it would just not be worth the effort.
Second, and thats the more interesting point- my wing manufacturer does probably the best foam obechi wings you can imagine, with super nice surface, prepared retract mounts, prepared ailerons,flaps,ect.at a reasonable price.
All those who ever build a Rauch airliner will definitely appreciate the extreme prefabrication of my wings.Together with a three parted glass fibre fuselage that "only" needs a few formers, the building time to get this kit in the air is EXTREMELY less than older kits.I think that covering the wings is an acceptable compromise.
Power requirements
As mentioned in the earlier thread, there are plenty of options starting with a single engine in the centre. 70 N should be more than adequate. Peter Michel, the godfather of airliners sais....the JetCat P80 is too strong.....
The plane would also take two WREN 44`s or two 90 mm fans ( also three!)
One costly but possible option would be the use of three P 20 or Kolibri engines.
I personally prefer it simple solution. My prototype 727 will fly with one turbine in the centre.At the moment I am looking at the Jets Munt 80 but havent decided yet.
Retracts
The 727 will definitely have LADO electric retracts with custom made legs.Never ever HAWE !!!
Got to go back to the 727 now
Ilja
I rather see this a s a personel project and now that I got interest in it ( I was a pure jet fighter fan before) I think it is better not to hurry and make something good of it .
The nose correction is the most important thing on this plane.I will make new molds as soon as time allows.For some reasons , I also made plugs for the elevators and will make molds for these also - it is impossible to make these from foam and obechi.
Anyway, I decided not to make all composite wings for two reasons.First, the overall price of the kit would be too high. Concerning the very few sales ( there are not many who like airliners) it would just not be worth the effort.
Second, and thats the more interesting point- my wing manufacturer does probably the best foam obechi wings you can imagine, with super nice surface, prepared retract mounts, prepared ailerons,flaps,ect.at a reasonable price.
All those who ever build a Rauch airliner will definitely appreciate the extreme prefabrication of my wings.Together with a three parted glass fibre fuselage that "only" needs a few formers, the building time to get this kit in the air is EXTREMELY less than older kits.I think that covering the wings is an acceptable compromise.
Power requirements
As mentioned in the earlier thread, there are plenty of options starting with a single engine in the centre. 70 N should be more than adequate. Peter Michel, the godfather of airliners sais....the JetCat P80 is too strong.....
The plane would also take two WREN 44`s or two 90 mm fans ( also three!)
One costly but possible option would be the use of three P 20 or Kolibri engines.
I personally prefer it simple solution. My prototype 727 will fly with one turbine in the centre.At the moment I am looking at the Jets Munt 80 but havent decided yet.
Retracts
The 727 will definitely have LADO electric retracts with custom made legs.Never ever HAWE !!!
Got to go back to the 727 now
Ilja
03-15-2012, 06:01 AM
#13
RE: Any word on the Grumania 727
That is awesome. HAving built the Rauch 727 I can defintely attest to your statement. I think a sheeted foam wing with retract mounts installed would be great, and Lado retracts would be absolutely wonderful. Please keep on it, as there are some of us who really appreciate these types of models and I think yours may be the only offering of its type in this scale.
03-15-2012, 09:18 AM
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: MetzingenBaden-W�rttenberg, GERMANY
Posts: 303
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Any word on the Grumania 727
Next (little) step.
after reinforcing of the inside with glass fibre, I had something to start from.
A first layer of filler is shown here, also the result after two more layers with sanding between.
Now I have to position my templates for exact window cutouts, before I can include the 6 main windows plus the four eyebrow windows - looks as if this is taking quite some time.
Wish I was that lucky guy on the picture............
Ilja
after reinforcing of the inside with glass fibre, I had something to start from.
A first layer of filler is shown here, also the result after two more layers with sanding between.
Now I have to position my templates for exact window cutouts, before I can include the 6 main windows plus the four eyebrow windows - looks as if this is taking quite some time.
Wish I was that lucky guy on the picture............
Ilja
03-16-2012, 08:36 AM
#18
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: MetzingenBaden-W�rttenberg, GERMANY
Posts: 303
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Any word on the Grumania 727
The elevators are glassed and primed,followed by a red layer to spot unevenness later when sanding the surfaces. Due to the mass ballances,it seems obvious why a foam/obechi elevator will be impossible...........
By the way, the elevators have a plug in with the correct (negative) angle.I already modified the fuselage molds, so when the part comes of the mold, the drills for the plug ins are already given.
Next : the nacelles
Lucky to have the factory drawings, I could easily measure the correct angles. The old Kranz kit(on which these molds are based on) has a big mistake. The nacelles are on the centreline of the fuselage at 0°, while the full size plane has its nacelles above the centre line ,showing downward at 3°.
I made the fairings first, plugged it to the nacelles, then making two plug ins in the fuselage.The angles are correct now and next step is to glue nacelles to the fairings, then blend over the contours with filler.
The goal is to have nacelles that can be plugged to the fuselage.As with the elevators, the holes for the plug ins are already given when the rear fuselage is demolded.
Although I do not plan an ARF kit, I want to prepare as much as possible to make this a "quick built kit"
Ilja
By the way, the elevators have a plug in with the correct (negative) angle.I already modified the fuselage molds, so when the part comes of the mold, the drills for the plug ins are already given.
Next : the nacelles
Lucky to have the factory drawings, I could easily measure the correct angles. The old Kranz kit(on which these molds are based on) has a big mistake. The nacelles are on the centreline of the fuselage at 0°, while the full size plane has its nacelles above the centre line ,showing downward at 3°.
I made the fairings first, plugged it to the nacelles, then making two plug ins in the fuselage.The angles are correct now and next step is to glue nacelles to the fairings, then blend over the contours with filler.
The goal is to have nacelles that can be plugged to the fuselage.As with the elevators, the holes for the plug ins are already given when the rear fuselage is demolded.
Although I do not plan an ARF kit, I want to prepare as much as possible to make this a "quick built kit"
Ilja
04-01-2012, 01:52 AM
#19
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: MetzingenBaden-W�rttenberg, GERMANY
Posts: 303
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Any word on the Grumania 727
Hello again,
had not much time over the last two weeks, but made some more progress on nacelles and nose of the plane.The nacelles are rebuilt to correct measures and contour and need some filler and sanding to get them ready for new molds.
Meanwhile the nose was marked with reference lines - used a laser for these lines. While remains of the wrong old windows are clearly visible, the pictures does not show the red laser line clearly on the attached pictures.
Next step is to rebuild the cockpit windows.
I also built some wings, glassed them and included retract mounts to test fit the LADO electric retracts that I intend to offer with the kit.Luckily there is enough space for the 999 series retracts, although the legs are very far behind in the wing where it is thin.
Ilja
had not much time over the last two weeks, but made some more progress on nacelles and nose of the plane.The nacelles are rebuilt to correct measures and contour and need some filler and sanding to get them ready for new molds.
Meanwhile the nose was marked with reference lines - used a laser for these lines. While remains of the wrong old windows are clearly visible, the pictures does not show the red laser line clearly on the attached pictures.
Next step is to rebuild the cockpit windows.
I also built some wings, glassed them and included retract mounts to test fit the LADO electric retracts that I intend to offer with the kit.Luckily there is enough space for the 999 series retracts, although the legs are very far behind in the wing where it is thin.
Ilja
03-21-2013, 09:37 AM
#21
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: MetzingenBaden-W�rttenberg, GERMANY
Posts: 303
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Any word on the Grumania 727
Built from parts of the first batch of kits - after a week ( 6 days/2 hours each) it`s standing on its wheels.
Forward fuselage ( about one metre long) detachable, nose detachable, electric retracts with flex plates.
Ilja
Forward fuselage ( about one metre long) detachable, nose detachable, electric retracts with flex plates.
Ilja
03-21-2013, 09:41 AM
#22
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: MetzingenBaden-W�rttenberg, GERMANY
Posts: 303
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Any word on the Grumania 727
Built from parts of the first batch of kits - after a week ( 6 days/2 hours each) it`s standing on its wheels.
Forward fuselage ( about one metre long) detachable, nose detachable, electric retracts with flex plates.
Ilja
Forward fuselage ( about one metre long) detachable, nose detachable, electric retracts with flex plates.
Ilja
03-24-2013, 11:06 PM
#25
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: MetzingenBaden-W�rttenberg, GERMANY
Posts: 303
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Any word on the Grumania 727
Nice elevator detail of the all composite elevator halves.Now I`m sure that it was a good decision to gor for scale hingeing instead of cheap life hinges.
Ilja
Ilja