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  1. #126
    luv2flyrc's Avatar
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    RE: Powerbox iGyro

    Is the Airspeed (ground speed) to gain sensitivity working as advertised? To me, this is the largest benefit of this gyro if it works? You can have a higher gain at low speeds and a low gain at high speeds without having to constantly vary it yourself.

    Mike

  2. #127

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    RE: Powerbox iGyro

    Thank you for the information.

    I know that these gyro's will benefit. but since it costs a fair amount of money i would like to buy only one of the available gyro's

    My main questionis then wich is better.. the gyrobot 900 wing with a pitot tube or the Igyro with gps.
    Also are the features that are offered by the igyro equal to the gyrobot?

    @delgatogrande the links are not able to be opened.. i get an error message..


    Cheers up!

    Dennis

  3. #128

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    RE: Powerbox iGyro

    On the paper, the Gyrobot seems better. I don't know about the guts of the iGyro but the Gyrobot advertises the best electronic parts you can get today.
    Furthemore, the relevant speed that you need for the AGC (Automatic Gain Control) is the airspeed. Groung speed (the one you get from a GPS) doesn't take wind blowing into account.
    For theses reasons, the Gyrobot is one step ahead of the competition. Price tag is about the same as the iGyro.

  4. #129
    DelGatoGrande's Avatar
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    RE: Powerbox iGyro


    On the other hand wind never affected gyro settings in the past when GPS and air pressure sensor where not available.
    Unless you planing to fly in a storm?
    ...and dont want to think about what will happen (full gain) if an object will block the pressure tube! FOD

    At least the GPS if it will lost signal it will go to minimum setting gain for safety... Dennis i think RCU dont allow the F G links. email me at gpapagianis@hotmail.com and ill send them to you
    Best Regards George
    www.rcjet.gr \"props are for boats\"

  5. #130

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    RE: Powerbox iGyro

    No need of a storm, it's all about lift. Speed increases lift. As your airframe speeds up, you need to apply less deflection on your control surfaces for the same correction.
    Your plane traveling at a given ground speed, you need different gyro gain if you are heading headwind or not. The more the wind the more the difference of gyro gain is important.
    Regular gyros don't even bother with speed. It is not really an issue as long as your airplane doesn't have a wide range of speed.
    Better gyros like the iGyro will only look at ground speed. It is better but doesn't cover the full scope of the problem.
    Only gyros using true aispeed measurement fully address the issue.
    You see, no need of a storm. This is why the Gyrobot is ahead of the competion.

  6. #131

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    RE: Powerbox iGyro

    .

  7. #132
    luv2flyrc's Avatar
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    RE: Powerbox iGyro


    ORIGINAL: Yann


    Regular gyros don't even bother with speed. It is not really an issue as long as your airplane doesn't have a wide range of speed.
    Most of our jets DO have a wide range of speed so, it is an issue. This is why I asked if the GPS/varible gain actually works.

    Mike


  8. #133

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    RE: Powerbox iGyro

    Hi,

    At the moment iam leaning a bit to the gyrobot, but if controlls are the same i think i take the i gyro.
    This is because iam not an high speed flyer.. i rather do some harriers etc ..

    The most imported thing for me is that when giving input to a channel the other channels stay in heading lock.
    That means when i have a angle of attack of 45 degrees it will stay that way when giving roll..

    To be honest i have some problems holding altitude when making roling harriers..
    and i think this thing should help me.

    Cheers!

    Dennis

  9. #134

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    RE: Powerbox iGyro

    You are perfectly right Mike. With our jets flying faster than our prop planes, this is getting a concern.
    AGC is necessary now, and airspeed is the only way to go. Unless you only take off with no wind at all of course...

  10. #135

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    RE: Powerbox iGyro

    And once again, price tags are pretty close, so why bother...

  11. #136
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    RE: Powerbox iGyro

    Yann you are discussing over things you donΒ΄t understand.
    Since you insist to twist my arm for comparison,here you go.


    GPS sensor VS Air Pressure speed sensor:

    Tested both in strong wind conditions and GPS performance DID NOT cause over-compensation leading to oscillation.Simple as that!
    To end another myth :GPS calculates speed also in vertical flying.

    GPS is "digital" nature receiver .This means accurate/precise readings twice per second.
    Air pressure tube is "analog" nature sensor.This means less precise readings.

    GPS sensor:
    clean inboard installation .
    GPS Failure:In case of signal loss iGyro turns to minimum gain(max speed) for safety reasons!

    Air pressure rube:
    -tube sticking well out of the wings leading edge for clear reading.
    -You will love it as much you loved your ugly wip antennas look sticking out on your scale work years ago .

    Air pressure tube failure:
    -kick it and brake it,along with your wing, while working/walking around your jet.
    -More complicate connections wing to fuse.
    -In case of FOD= object will block your tube,gyro will think you fly very slow and will over-compensate leading to oscillation=linkage failure=flatter=crash.
    -FOD can come while airborn or from storage or from just cleaning model.


    iGyro VS gyrobot

    With gyrobot setup you are steering the Gyro, and the Gyro is controlling the model THAT iS WHY>
    > GyroBot must be turned OFF for starting and landing or else you will stall !!!!!
    Yes if you try to land or decent or flair gyrobot will stall you = hello crash.


    With iGyro YOU are steering the model ! , and the iGyro helps you!
    Flying iGyro doesnΒ΄t change your model at all ! You can land! You can 360 decent! You can flair! You can forget about it and fly a better model!


    And for those want to have sometime left for flying in there life , iGyro is adjusted in 15-60minutes – depends on the skill of the pilot.
    To adjust a gyrobot you need a good 5-10hours.


    Now you know iGyro is not only ahead of the competition and the superior product. But the only way and a mark in the hobby history!


    p.s. sorry for my poor english,nothing personal

    Best Regards George
    www.rcjet.gr \"props are for boats\"

  12. #137

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    RE: Powerbox iGyro

    That's all right with your poor english as you said. Never meant to twist your arm here, but it happens to be my job. I make a living designing computers for the aerospace industry, including IMU (Inertial Measurement Unit) which include gyros. So I think I'm in the part of the population able to understand pretty well those concepts and surounding issues. I don't want to go to deep into details but you seem to be all mixed up. You stick to a particular case while I speak of the different technologies available. All of them work, some better than others, and those who may work well in YOUR given setup and context, might not in different ones. According to the technology you want to go with, you choose to FULLY or NOT address a potential issue rising with our increasing fast jets. If you refuse to accept the law of physics, then have it your way. Wether you like it or not the earth turns around the sun...
    I'm off this topic now as I don't want to hijack this thread. If you really want to further discuss this mater, you can PM me.

  13. #138
    DelGatoGrande's Avatar
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    RE: Powerbox iGyro


    GyroBot must be turned OFF for: any gliding path,any slow flying ,starting,landing and so on, because it will stall you model and crash it.

    Yann i dont think i made my self clear enough.This words are not mine.You will find them in gyrobot manual.


    .
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    Best Regards George
    www.rcjet.gr \"props are for boats\"

  14. #139

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    RE: Powerbox iGyro

    What part of PM me you don't get?
    Once again you talk of a particular case, yours. Looking specifically at Gyrobot, it has two working modes like most gyros todays. A "normal" mode and a headind lock mode.
    Yes you should not try to land or take off in heading lock mode with any gyro.

    The original question of this thread has never been what works and what doesn' t work but was what works best.
    My original post was to answer this question, as only airspeed monitoring FULLY covers the issue.
    All theses available systems do work fine, just like your own setup.
    Your succesfull test just proves this setup worked for you in your test conditions. It doesn't prove it will work for every setup/condition.
    As long as you stay within the limits covered by your system, you're fine.

    I say it again to close this discusion.
    When AGC (Automatic Gain Control) becomes necessary (as speed range increases), the seamingless/bulletproof way to implement it, is to monitor the airspeed.
    Most gyros don't monitor anything. Some monitor ground speed which is fine. Some monitor airspeed which is better.

    If you feel the need to further discuss this matter, please PM me so we don't hijack this thread.

  15. #140

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    RE: Powerbox iGyro

    Mike to answer your question I would say yes, the variable gain or AGC does work. It works fine based on GPS feedback somewhere 99% of the time, while airspeed feedback will work 100% of the time.
    Now taking about specific products.

    The Gyrobot has a main drawback, you need to have a pitot tube. Having this thing sticking out of the plane is not always looking good in case of a scale bird. It is not always possible/easy to make it look more scale.
    The main advantage it has over the competition is that the issue of AGC is fully covered, no matter the plane or the flying conditions.

    The iGyro on the other hand is easier to setup as nothing sticks out and is just a plug in and out matter. On the other hand it doesn't take wind into account. It might work just as good but keep in mind that on the paper, you're not fully covered.

  16. #141

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    RE: Powerbox iGyro

    Hello,

    Interesting threat this !

    Since my model is not flying over 90 mph a pitot tube is not so extreme important for me.
    One question for igyro, willi gyro only disengage heading lock for the axis that is being given input?
    So when i fly a harrierand idont touch ele and rudder and give input onroll, will it then stay sharp in that angle of attack= rolling harrier.
    If so i go foran igyro.

    Regards,
    Dennis

  17. #142

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    RE: Powerbox iGyro

    Dennis,
    Eventhough the iGyro has three build in gyros on three different axis, you have to see it as three different gyros.
    Each gyro axis is independant from the others. So yes, only heading lock on the axis you are giving input will be disengaged.

  18. #143

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    RE: Powerbox iGyro



    Yann,

    Thank you for that answer
    At the moment i have guardian 2d/3d
    I can only use rudder and then aileron and elevator does not disengage hh
    when i use aileron it does disengage rudder and ele so incase of a torque roll i still need to steer a lot although it dampenes those channels. is it also possible to use a single futaba 6008hs reciever? it has a data port.

    Regards,
    Dennis


  19. #144

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    RE: Powerbox iGyro

    Yes as long as you have an Sbus receiver, you can have a single receiver setup.

  20. #145

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    RE: Powerbox iGyro

    Ah clear.. to bad the data port of the futaba r6008HS is not a sbus port .. so i need to sell this one and get an sbus reciever..

    Regards
    Dennis

  21. #146
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    RE: Powerbox iGyro

    Hi all:
    I got 5 sets of Igyro-GPS on Jetpower and install 2 of them in my A-10 and Mig-29 OVT and 2 sets sold to my friend and 1 set for spare. Three GPS function of them working fine and get into "logging" from "searching" in about 30 seconds but the other two are not, they keep in "searching " status for over 30 minutes and never go into "logging". Then, I change the GPS sensors of these two failed sets to the sensors which from 3 working sets and they work properly. So I think I got two failure GPS sensors and will send them back to PowerBox for replacement. Anyone has such problem?

    The other issue I found is the SMM sensors used in the Igyro seems a little temperature sensitive. When just turn on the RX/TX and do "zero gyro", of couse the screen of Igyro will shows "idle" but after the system getting warmmer, even the model is stationray, the screen will show "in motion" and causes the control surfaces deflect to the end point in 10 seconds on heading-mode. Then I have to "zero gyro" again and this time because the temperature is stablized and the control surface will keep in center for a reasonable long period. This problem makes me a little inconvenient to operate my models with Igyro. Because I have to turn Rx/Tx on for about 10 minutes then zero-gyro before fly.

    I already fly my Mig with Igyro 6 times and A-10 2 times, all flights are perfect. I connect Aile-1/Elev-1/rudder(delta wing mode) to VT nozzles and Aile-2/Elev-2 to ailerons and elevators on Mig. I can hover my Mig hand off and no need correct any axis in heading-mode. About A-10, gear-down, full flap, thrust, would cause pitch change before. With Igyro, I can turn off all mixings and let gyro do its job. Even in invert fly, the Igyro still keep it fly level.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKcTi...ature=youtu.be
    Li, Kai
    Engineer of Skymaster

  22. #147
    DelGatoGrande's Avatar
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    RE: Powerbox iGyro


    ORIGINAL: DennisCamps

    Hello,

    Interesting threat this !

    Since my model is not flying over 90 mph a pitot tube is not so extreme important for me.
    One question for iΒ*gyro, willΒ*i gyro only disengage heading lock for the axis that is being given input?
    So when i fly a harrierΒ*and iΒ*dont touch ele and rudder and give input onΒ*roll, will it then stay sharp in that angle of attackΒ*= rolling harrier.
    If so i go forΒ*an igyro.

    Regards,
    DennisΒ*

    Dennis IMHO you need to work on your rolling harries with out an iGyro first.The hard way will make you a better pilot with better reflects.
    ...note that the angle of attack in rolling harrier is controlled by the engine rpm..more efective in this speeds
    my 2c
    Best Regards George
    www.rcjet.gr \"props are for boats\"

  23. #148
    DelGatoGrande's Avatar
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    RE: Powerbox iGyro

    Hello LiKai,

    regarding the temperature sensitivity of the sensor, the sensors can drift , but you wont feel that in flight.
    Even when the rudders are moving very fast in one direction and might drift, you won't feel it in flight or see it on models direction.


    Regarding the 2 out of 5 GPS failures i think is too much. What i know is that this sensors are sensitive from falling/dropping.

    Please contact PowerBox at info@powerbox-systems.com im sure they know more to help

    .... very nice flight![8D]
    Best Regards George
    www.rcjet.gr \"props are for boats\"

  24. #149

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    RE: Powerbox iGyro

    Hello,

    The powerbox Igyro is ordered.. i am expecting it to arive this week..
    Unfortunately i don't think i can test it on short term as its near winter here in holland..

    Anyone has a bed to spare and some storage for the plane

    Cheers,
    Dennis

  25. #150

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    RE: Powerbox iGyro

    hi again.

    my igyro arived yesterday and i installed it today.
    i have one strange thing... it is only about my elevator.
    when i hook my recievers channel 2 and 8 up to my elevators wich are mixed bij my transmitter as ailvator it is perfectly at netral position.
    now when i hook them up to the igyro with gyro off one servo goes like 5 mm off center so iam required to adjust the arm of the servo to this new centerpoint. this is only for one of my elevator servos. So it looks that the Igyro has a different centerpoint..

    how is this possible of do i need to adjust anything in the igyro?

    regards. dennis


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