RC Jets Discuss RC jets in this forum plus rc turbines and ducted fan power systems

Ultra Flash ground handling

Reply
Old 08-19-2012, 12:56 PM
  #1
1_helihover_1
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Vestby, NORWAY
Posts: 65
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default Ultra Flash ground handling

Hello
Had maiden flight on my UF today, and it flew awesome. But ground handling was terrible...I run stock gear with Intarico wheels, and I really had a hard time keeping the plane in a straight line during take-off and landing. Several times I had to abort due to the fact that the plane was skidding all over the place - it really had some spectacular drifts...
It got better with some, more, Toe-in - but what is the fix here? I fly mainly from asphalt.
Thanks, Helihover.
1_helihover_1 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2012, 01:12 PM
  #2
Justflying1
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Melbourne, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 761
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Ultra Flash ground handling

What I do with my jets is set very little movement on my steering during take off. I also set 35% expo to all my flight controls.
I usually have 3 sets rates on one switch so it does not complicate things.
Just make sure thatwhat ever rates you set up, your plane must still be able to Fly, and land with elevator authority On all set rates.
What I mean by this is, if you set little movement say 20-25% for steering and rudder, it does not mean that you set that rate for all other control surfaces, as the plane mite not flywell with only 20-25% elevator.
I know this sounds obvious but I have seen it done resulting in a plain nearly goingin.
Good luck
Justflying1 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2012, 01:33 PM
  #3
AFTERBURNER1
 
AFTERBURNER1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Anaheim Hills, CA
Posts: 4,424
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Ultra Flash ground handling

Dump the stock composite arf nose wheel. Replace it with a hard rubber nose wheel of the same or a bit smaller size. BVM, interico will suffice. Get an 6mm drill bit, drill out the hub of the new wheel and use the stock wheel guts.. ALL OF YOUR PROBLEMS WILL GO AWAY!!

No need to mess around with rates, expo etc etc...
AFTERBURNER1 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2012, 01:51 PM
  #4
quist
 
quist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Glendale, AZ
Posts: 3,210
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Ultra Flash ground handling

8MM??? I dont think so.

I have used both the bvm and intairco, problems went away.
quist is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2012, 02:23 PM
  #5
AFTERBURNER1
 
AFTERBURNER1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Anaheim Hills, CA
Posts: 4,424
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Ultra Flash ground handling


Quote:
ORIGINAL: quist

8MM??? I dont think so.

I have used both the bvm and intairco, problems went away.

I believe it is 6mm. My bad.... you drilled it.... Was 6 mm yes?
AFTERBURNER1 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2012, 05:40 PM
  #6
basimpsn
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Mia, FL
Posts: 2,487
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Ultra Flash ground handling

I had the same problem.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_10...76/key_/tm.htm
basimpsn is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2012, 06:31 PM
  #7
indubitably
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Bakersfield, CA
Posts: 321
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Ultra Flash ground handling

You might try a little up elevator during takeoff, easing some as you build up speed. But a light nose wheel will not bite so hard. A hard rubber wheel also may have less traction. But the elevator means you dont have to change anything. Just something to try while you wait for the BVM nose wheel.
John
indubitably is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2012, 07:06 PM
  #8
AFTERBURNER1
 
AFTERBURNER1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Anaheim Hills, CA
Posts: 4,424
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Ultra Flash ground handling

Change the nose wheel.. That is ALL you need to do.
AFTERBURNER1 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2012, 08:33 PM
  #9
InboundLZ
 
InboundLZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 1,943
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Ultra Flash ground handling


Quote:
ORIGINAL: AFTERBURNER1

Change the nose wheel.. That is ALL you need to do.
This is the voice of experience, a smart man would heed the advice....
InboundLZ is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2012, 08:37 PM
  #10
wojtek
 
wojtek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: nj, NJ
Posts: 4,208
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Ultra Flash ground handling


Quote:
ORIGINAL: AFTERBURNER1

Change the nose wheel.. That is ALL you need to do.

+1

~V~
wojtek is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2012, 08:50 PM
  #11
Mariosff
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Nicosia, ON, CYPRUS
Posts: 38
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Ultra Flash ground handling

Had the same proplem with my F20 and some toe in and elevator up during the ground roll to keep some weight on the mains, solved the proplem
Quote:
ORIGINAL: indubitably

You might try a little up elevator during takeoff, easing some as you build up speed. But a light nose wheel will not bite so hard. A hard rubber wheel also may have less traction. But the elevator means you dont have to change anything. Just something to try while you wait for the BVM nose wheel.
John
Mariosff is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2012, 09:08 PM
  #12
dubd
 
dubd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 4,252
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Ultra Flash ground handling

Quote:
ORIGINAL: Mariosff

Had the same proplem with my F20 and some toe in and elevator up during the ground roll to keep some weight on the mains, solved the
That's not going to fix the problem with the ultra flash.
dubd is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2012, 09:47 PM
  #13
Dave Wilshere
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Watford, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 9,447
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Ultra Flash ground handling

Really????
I've never seen an UF abort a take off in England or Germany on hard runways...all use stock gear and nose tyre! I know its hotter there than here (all though I'm sure someone flew in the 30 degrees we had this last weekend) I just have 35% expo on the nose steering and that is it. I with the amount of trail it has on the nose leg it runs straight all the time.

Dw
Dave Wilshere is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2012, 10:38 PM
  #14
Gra55h0pper
 
Gra55h0pper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 84
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Ultra Flash ground handling

I had the same problem with my regular Flash with stock Intairco wheels. Ground handling was like being on ice and expo, toe, etc. didn't help. A gyro on steering did the trick though! Never had a problem since! Highly recommend it.
Gra55h0pper is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2012, 11:14 PM
  #15
Dave Wilshere
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Watford, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 9,447
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Ultra Flash ground handling

You guys must grease your runways

Dw
Dave Wilshere is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2012, 04:07 AM
  #16
miniman
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Wellingborough, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 145
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Ultra Flash ground handling

Quote:
ORIGINAL: Dave Wilshere

You guys must grease your runways

Dw
+1

Peter
miniman is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2012, 05:40 AM
  #17
sailing1
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: tulsa, OK
Posts: 932
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Ultra Flash ground handling

Like some have mentioned, I had the problem on my Classic Flash. Changed to a Tam's solid nose wheel and dialed in the correct amount of toe in and that helped a lot. What finally tamed the beast for me was building a mix that lowered the steering rate when the flaps were down. On top of the mix I put about 40% expo on the dialed down steering and the problem was totally cured for me anyway.

I have the same setup on my Ultra and it works just fine.
sailing1 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2012, 05:48 AM
  #18
BaldEagel
 
BaldEagel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Kent, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 9,635
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Ultra Flash ground handling

Is your nose wheel trailing, by that I mean is the whole leg pointing backwards not just the wheel yoke?

Mike
BaldEagel is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2012, 07:09 AM
  #19
Ramz
 
Ramz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Petitcodiac, NB, CANADA
Posts: 264
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Ultra Flash ground handling

Stock behotec and Intairco wheels and no issues at all on grass and asphalt. Never had an aborted takeoff. Sounds to me like some left stick practice is in order along with some proper setup.
Ramz is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2012, 07:30 AM
  #20
Helijet
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Kamloops, BC, CANADA
Posts: 974
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Ultra Flash ground handling

All stock set up on mine with CARF suggested gear. 5 degrees of throw on the nose with 30 % expo. Tracks fine.
For those with bigger engines don't slam the throttle. Start the roll at 1 /4 throttle then as she begins to pick up speed, go to full power.
Anyway....dozens of flights here and never an aborted one.

Cheers

Dean W.
Helijet is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2012, 07:57 AM
  #21
InboundLZ
 
InboundLZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 1,943
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Ultra Flash ground handling

I had nothing but issues on my Flash until I changed the nose wheel. It has nothing to do with left hand practice or anything else for that matter. You want to dick around with all the different suggestions given here, knock yourself out. Once you get that out of your system, you will finally change your nose tire and your problems will be over. With 357 flights in 14 months I am speaking from a position of experience.
InboundLZ is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2012, 08:49 AM
  #22
PHIL GREENO
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: HarrowMiddlesex, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 204
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Ultra Flash ground handling

The reason why you guys have direction problems on take off is because you have too much steering.

There a three things you can do.

1. Fit a harder less grippy front tyre to give you understeer.

2. Adjust the standard set up correctly.

3.Use a gyro on the nose leg servo.

On the UF it is not neccesary to do either items 1 or 3.

If you set up the nose leg correctly as follows you will have no problems.

You will need to have your rudder/nose leg steering on seperate channels so dont use a Y-Lead.

Use a standard mix with rudder as master and it is usefull if you can asign nose leg steering channel trim to a seperate trim lever(no problem on a Futaba 14/18MZ so you can set your nose leg tracking without effecting the rudder trim position.

Adjust your ATV for nose leg channel so you can taxi OK and just make a nice large turn (not tight) to come on to the centre of your run way for take off.

Use a lot of expo on nose channel.I use -60% on my 18MZ.

The standard Carf nose leg has Caster(trail) so the nose leg will always want to caster straight any way.

Open your throttle smoothly for take off and youshould have no problems at all with the standard gear as supplied.

Phil.
PHIL GREENO is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2012, 12:53 PM
  #23
1_helihover_1
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Vestby, NORWAY
Posts: 65
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Ultra Flash ground handling

Thank you all for suggestions - greatly apprechiated. New front wheel is ordered 
Thanks again!
Brgds
Helihover
1_helihover_1 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2012, 01:22 PM
  #24
AFTERBURNER1
 
AFTERBURNER1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Anaheim Hills, CA
Posts: 4,424
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Ultra Flash ground handling


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Ramz

Stock behotec and Intairco wheels and no issues at all on grass and asphalt. Never had an aborted takeoff. Sounds to me like some left stick practice is in order along with some proper setup.

Left stick practice,,, NOT... U r funny..l

AFTERBURNER1 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2012, 01:25 PM
  #25
AFTERBURNER1
 
AFTERBURNER1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Anaheim Hills, CA
Posts: 4,424
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Ultra Flash ground handling


Quote:
ORIGINAL: InboundLZ

I had nothing but issues on my Flash until I changed the nose wheel. It has nothing to do with left hand practice or anything else for that matter. You want to dick around with all the different suggestions given here, knock yourself out. Once you get that out of your system, you will finally change your nose tire and your problems will be over. With 357 flights in 14 months I am speaking from a position of experience.

Funny stuff here D!!!!! Like u or I wouldn't know.. I only have a handful of flash flights under my belt..

Let them putz with gyros, expos, toe etc etc.

Replace the nose wheel,,,, problem solved.
AFTERBURNER1 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 10:27 AM.