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Thomahawk or CARF/Skygate L-39??

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Old 09-11-2012, 11:37 AM
  #1
k_sonn
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Default Thomahawk or CARF/Skygate L-39??

I have been contemplating the next project and its come down to a Thomahawk or CARF/Skygate L-39. For those that have built one of these orboth of these, what is your impression of the quality of the kit, flight characteristics, and customer service? Which kit has more detail molded in? Which kit weighs less? If you had to do it over again, would you go with the same kit you selected or would you build the other one?

Thanks,
Kirk
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Old 09-11-2012, 02:10 PM
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Dave Wilshere
 
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Default RE: Thomahawk or CARF/Skygate L-39??

Kirk

Bit early, the first CARF versions are just arriving now. Scale detail moulded on the CARF model is certainly very good (both are!) But Stefan Volker multiple JWM champion did the moulds for the CARF one!

Big EDF??

Dave
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Old 09-11-2012, 04:00 PM
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Default RE: Thomahawk or CARF/Skygate L-39??

Thanks Dave. How'd you guess I'll be building a big EDF

I'll be using the new Schubeler DS-215 with 54 pounds of thrust. In the photo below, the fan that's second from the left is the 29 pound thrust DS-94 that's in my Hunter. The DS-215 makes it look small.

Kirk
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Old 09-11-2012, 08:42 PM
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Default RE: Thomahawk or CARF/Skygate L-39??


Quote:
ORIGINAL: k_sonn

Thanks Dave. How'd you guess I'll be building a big EDF [img][/img]

I'll be using the new Schubeler DS-215 with 54 pounds of thrust. In the photo below, the fan that's second from the left is the 29 pound thrust DS-94 that's in my Hunter. The DS-215 makes it look small.

Kirk
Wow kirk... that thing is huge.
Is there a point where A123's start to make sense over lipos? I mean, we dont use them in smaller planes due to size and weight, but would you consider them to power something this big? Just curious...

PS: are you still building the F86, or did you give up on converting that to e power?

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Old 09-11-2012, 11:02 PM
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Default RE: Thomahawk or CARF/Skygate L-39??

The C-ARF model is certainly a lot more scale than the THawk L-39. Stefan designed it primarily as a WJM model so went all out on the detail. It's as scale as you can buy.

The THawk is bigger and maybe has more 'impact' on the ground due to its size but it is not as scale. There is surface detail but it's not true scale. the ailerons are skin hinged too for convenience rather than scale. Both are great versions of the model but the C-ARF/Skygate version is definitely the one to go for if you want scaleness.

I think the prices of both are similar but the CARF/SG version comes from the factory as standard at an advanced build stage for which you have to pay handsomely if you choose the Stage 3 build option from Tomahawk.

The TH model is huge so harder to transport unless you have a trailer, although you still may struggle if you want to transport it on its wheels as the fin is not removable. Sat on its wheels the top of fin must be nearly 4ft from the ground.

If it were me (and I think it will be soon [8D]) I'd go for the CARF/SG version.

Rgds,
Mark
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Old 09-12-2012, 05:20 AM
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Default RE: Thomahawk or CARF/Skygate L-39??

INTERESTING Kirk!
Subscribed!
regards Martin
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Old 09-12-2012, 06:37 AM
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Default RE: Thomahawk or CARF/Skygate L-39??

KIRK BIG $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ oh well it's only money.
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Old 09-12-2012, 07:50 AM
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Default RE: Thomahawk or CARF/Skygate L-39??


Quote:
ORIGINAL: JackD.
Wow kirk... that thing is huge.
Is there a point where A123's start to make sense over lipos? I mean, we dont use them in smaller planes due to size and weight, but would you consider them to power something this big? Just curious...

PS: are you still building the F86, or did you give up on converting that to e power?
Hi Jack. Good point on the A123's. I hadn't thought about using them but with a large airframe it may make sense to consider them.

I haven't given up on the F-86. Just put it away during the flying season. I plan to get it back out after BITW although I am considering putting it up for sale to help fund this project.

Kirk
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Old 09-12-2012, 07:56 AM
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Default RE: Thomahawk or CARF/Skygate L-39??


Quote:
ORIGINAL: schroedm

The C-ARF model is certainly a lot more scale than the THawk L-39. Stefan designed it primarily as a WJM model so went all out on the detail. It's as scale as you can buy.

The THawk is bigger and maybe has more 'impact' on the ground due to its size but it is not as scale. There is surface detail but it's not true scale. the ailerons are skin hinged too for convenience rather than scale. Both are great versions of the model but the C-ARF/Skygate version is definitely the one to go for if you want scaleness.

I think the prices of both are similar but the CARF/SG version comes from the factory as standard at an advanced build stage for which you have to pay handsomely if you choose the Stage 3 build option from Tomahawk.

The TH model is huge so harder to transport unless you have a trailer, although you still may struggle if you want to transport it on its wheels as the fin is not removable. Sat on its wheels the top of fin must be nearly 4ft from the ground.

If it were me (and I think it will be soon [8D]) I'd go for the CARF/SG version.

Rgds,
Mark
Mark, thanks for the info. I am leaning towards the CARF/SG L-39. I was told one of the CAF reps in Germany is working with CARF to have formers made so the DS-215 drops in without mods. I also like the way the CARF/SG breaks down for transporting. And since I have a scale background,the scale fidelity of the CARF/SG ismore appealing.

Kirk
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Old 09-12-2012, 07:57 AM
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Default RE: Thomahawk or CARF/Skygate L-39??

Quote:
ORIGINAL: MaHo

INTERESTING Kirk!
Subscribed!
regards Martin
Thanks Martin.
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Old 09-12-2012, 07:59 AM
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Default RE: Thomahawk or CARF/Skygate L-39??

I would bet you could get the Tomahawk lighter if it matters.
My Skygate/Comp Arf L39 weighs 53lbs if I remember correct. But thats with P200.
Scott
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Old 09-12-2012, 08:00 AM
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Default RE: Thomahawk or CARF/Skygate L-39??

Quote:
ORIGINAL: R_Belluomini

KIRK BIG $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ oh well it's only money.
It's only money Bob Actually, the cost isn't that much more than I have invested inthe 80 inch BVMF-86 and it is larger with a lot less building and more molded in scale detail.
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Old 09-12-2012, 08:02 AM
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Default RE: Thomahawk or CARF/Skygate L-39??

Quote:
ORIGINAL: jetpilot

I would bet you could get the Tomahawk lighter if it matters.
My Skygate/Comp Arf L39 weighs 53lbs if I remember correct. But thats with P200.
Scott
Scott, are you bringing it to BITW. I'd love to get a good look at.

Kirk
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Old 09-12-2012, 09:59 AM
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Default RE: Thomahawk or CARF/Skygate L-39??

Hi Kirk,
Yessir!
They both have pros and cons, but for what you are doing I would be leaning toward TH. I think it will be lighter.
That is if you can transport with fin on.
The ducting on the SG/CA makes a really sharp turn that might not be good for your application as well.
Scott
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Old 09-12-2012, 10:18 AM
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Default RE: Thomahawk or CARF/Skygate L-39??

HI Guys

Not to go out of subject, but has anyone seen or have a Carf Skygate Hawk? I have been wanting one but I don't want to be the owner of the first ones out for obvious reasons. I would appreciate the feedback.

Thanks

Behzad
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Old 09-12-2012, 10:45 AM
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Default RE: Thomahawk or CARF/Skygate L-39??

Scott, I assume that's a wet weight?

The SG L39 comes in just sub 44lb dry.

I agree that the ducting may be less than ideal for electric but I'm not sure the THawk is much better.
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Old 09-12-2012, 10:56 AM
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Default RE: Thomahawk or CARF/Skygate L-39??

Sorry Mark, thats dry!
completely installed RTF with P200. UAT, valves, servos, extensions, sequencers, fill valves, air install, cockpit, pilot, turbine and acces, etc. lots of stuff in there!!
Scott
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Old 09-12-2012, 11:18 AM
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Default RE: Thomahawk or CARF/Skygate L-39??

Hi Kirk if you have facebook befriend Graeme Mears ... he is a world class model builder. Anyways he has built a skygate L39 and it is well documented on his facebook page.
Absolutely gorgeous.
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Old 09-12-2012, 06:38 PM
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Default RE: Thomahawk or CARF/Skygate L-39??


Quote:
ORIGINAL: modelman992005

Hi Kirk if you have facebook befriend Graeme Mears ... he is a world class model builder. Anyways he has built a skygate L39 and it is well documented on his facebook page.
Absolutely gorgeous.
Thanks for the info.
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Old 09-12-2012, 07:20 PM
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Default RE: Thomahawk or CARF/Skygate L-39??


Quote:
ORIGINAL: k_sonn


Quote:
ORIGINAL: JackD.
Wow kirk... that thing is huge.
Is there a point where A123's start to make sense over lipos? I mean, we dont use them in smaller planes due to size and weight, but would you consider them to power something this big? Just curious...

PS: are you still building the F86, or did you give up on converting that to e power?
Hi Jack. Good point on the A123's. I hadn't thought about using them but with a large airframe it may make sense to consider them.

I haven't given up on the F-86. Just put it away during the flying season. I plan to get it back out after BITW although I am considering putting it up for sale to help fund this project.

Kirk
Don't give up on the F86.... it is a lot of work, but it is an amazing flying airplane. Plus, I want to see it flying on e power
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Old 09-14-2012, 07:58 AM
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Default RE: Thomahawk or CARF/Skygate L-39??

Based on the responses, it sounds like the Thomahawk L-39 may be the way to go for my application due to its lighter weight.  Does anyone have a build thread or build photos of the TH L-39 they'd like to share? 

Kirk
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Old 04-28-2015, 04:37 AM
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Just wanted to post some numbers on the COMP ARF L39 as they seem to have a large inconsistency in building weights. The highest weight of 51.25 shown without paint and I believe the most accurate was taken from the Xicoy weight and Balance system.
I also did individual parts on a digital bathroom scale for parts over 15Lbs. For parts under 15Lbs a digital shop scale was used. The total weight of 49.75 was recorded with this method. Please note there is no paint, no primer and very small amounts of gule added to the factory product.

Here is what is on the scales as you see it.

  1. COMP ARF scale cockpit, minus the two seats
  2. Lipo 7.2 Powerbox batteries, 2 each
  3. Powerbox Royal
  4. JetCat-P200 fully installed. (Note, deduct 2.75 Lbs if you go with a P180. Manufacture will give you 2.5 Lbs difference but these weights are fully installed with a external pump and larger ECU and control valves)
  5. All recommended servos
  6. 3200 Ma Lipo 7.2 Volt battery for P200
  7. COMPARF fuel tank system
  8. COMP ARF Thrust tube
  9. 4 Air Tanks
  10. Required air line and servo extensions.
  11. Lighting set and required battery, UniLight System and 5200 Ma Lion batt.


Here is what is not on the Model

  1. Canopy plastic
  2. Paint. ( I will use KlassKote and planning to do reverse masking on all areas. Estimating another 2.25 Lbs of painting and finishing products
  3. Jersey Fueling system
  4. Spot puddy to fill molding seams
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Old 04-28-2015, 08:14 AM
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what size battery's will you put in a model this big as a edf?
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