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Weatronics....considering a change .is it worth the investment?

Old 09-15-2012, 09:39 AM
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bigbri
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Default Weatronics....considering a change .is it worth the investment?

OK.....So I have been flying Futaba 2.4 for a few years and it had been very good to me. Now I am considering upgrading my gear to weatronics. I hear it has many advantages over Futaba and SPectrum Could those of you that inderstand the advantages or disadvantages please explain it to me
Old 09-15-2012, 10:45 AM
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Default RE: Weatronics....considering a change .is it worth the investment?

i have never heard that it is better than any of the makers you have used before it was just another choice you had when you went to better radio gear i would save your money or get a better 2.4 transmitter
Old 09-15-2012, 10:48 AM
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Default RE: Weatronics....considering a change .is it worth the investment?


ORIGINAL: bluescoobydoo

i have never heard that it is better than any of the makers you have used before it was just another choice you had when you went to better radio gear i would save your money or get a better 2.4 transmitter
You haven't done much reading on it then

BTW, for the original OP, there is a mile long thread on RCU called "Weatronic Diagnostic Tools" extolling the advantages of the Weatronic system over more conventional types. I couldn't begin to condense that thread into 1 post here there are so many advantages to this system.

Have a look for it.

Mike



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Old 09-16-2012, 12:32 AM
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Default RE: Weatronics....considering a change .is it worth the investment?

You may want to PM roger.alli a regular poster here.

He lost a Bandit while flying Weatronics & it was discussed on the thread mentioned above.

I don't know the outcome & RCU has been on the fritz so I couldn't check it. - John.
Old 09-16-2012, 04:27 AM
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Default RE: Weatronics....considering a change .is it worth the investment?


ORIGINAL: Boomerang1

You may want to PM roger.alli a regular poster here.

He lost a Bandit while flying Weatronics & it was discussed on the thread mentioned above.

I don't know the outcome & RCU has been on the fritz so I couldn't check it. - John.
Yes, I know he sent his log files to Weatronic for review but, I don't think the outcome, if any, was ever posted. Although it's never good to loose a plane, it can happen and does happen with any system. One of the advantages to the Wea system is that should something happen, there is an unbelievable host of a data available that can be used to assess it.

I think I recall seeing Roger's files and remember that his radio link quality was below the norm for his entire flight. He was losing alot of frames. I can't say whether it was a problem with the equipment or whether it was the RF environment it was operated in.

With other setups you would not have this information and would be wondering if a servo locked up or your battery dropped out, Weatronic's data log would tell you if this was the case as well.

I'd love to know if it was ever brought to conclusion.

Mike



Old 09-16-2012, 05:26 AM
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Default RE: Weatronics....considering a change .is it worth the investment?

Their new transmitter looks interesting, very little information on it at the moment though. Will wait some more before I take the plunge myself.....
Old 09-16-2012, 05:39 AM
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Gary Jefferson
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Default RE: Weatronics....considering a change .is it worth the investment?

I switched a couple of years ago and ended up selling the system. It was virtually impossible to get a new receiver when I had a new project. Even if you could get one the wait time could be months. Many excuses; new ownership, the company is moving to a new bullding, etc. Finally, I just gave up.

It might be a superior system but it is of no value if you cannot buy new receivers when needed. I would recommend you check very carefully with guys that are currently using the system before switching to see if the availability is any better now.

I would also recommend reading the thread referred to here because you can see the actual information available in the system. The information is available but you have to understand how to interpret the information before it is of any use to you. At the time the thread was running all of the time most guys were just posting their results so that someone else could interpret them.

Old 09-16-2012, 06:05 AM
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Default RE: Weatronics....considering a change .is it worth the investment?


ORIGINAL: Gary Jefferson

I switched a couple of years ago and ended up selling the system. It was virtually impossible to get a new receiver when I had a new project. Even if you could get one the wait time could be months. Many excuses; new ownership, the company is moving to a new bullding, etc. Finally, I just gave up.

It might be a superior system but it is of no value if you cannot buy new receivers when needed. I would recommend you check very carefully with guys that are currently using the system before switching to see if the availability is any better now.

I would also recommend reading the thread referred to here because you can see the actual information available in the system. The information is available but you have to understand how to interpret the information before it is of any use to you. At the time the thread was running all of the time most guys were just posting their results so that someone else could interpret them.

Gary, if you were trying to purchase equipment from the USA dealer, that is where the availabilty issue lies. If you order direct from Wea's online shop, there is no issue. I had a nightmare of a time trying to get product from Weatronic USA, very nice guy but, one excuse after another, claiming product is not available, hold ups in US customs etc.

Since I order from Europe, whatever I want arrives in 2 weeks from time of order. Although I'm in Canada, I have it shipped to my USA mailbox to avoid Canadian import costs so, I know there's no issue shipping to USA.

It's not a perfect world though: the two downsides to dealing with the company are that their primary language is German, English communication can be weak. 2nd, is that their customer service is poor ( could be related to issue #1). Customer service does seem to be improving though. If you can "live" we these two issues, the reward is a superb product that seems to be technically ahead of everyone else although, it may admittedly provide too much info for some people.

Not here to "sell" the system to anyone else but, I do use it exclusively in my jets now and really like it.

Mike

Old 09-16-2012, 07:20 AM
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HarryC
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Default RE: Weatronics....considering a change .is it worth the investment?

I briefly used the Wea 35mhz rx and then bought the 2.4 system not long after it went on sale. My 2 main reasons for buying it were the need to run about 15 servos without changing from my 12 channel tx, and my desire to have the data logging about the radio signal as I like metal coated jets which present a difficult environment for 2.4.

Every system has pros and cons. I think there have been some problems with the interface to certain futaba tx. The cable that connects the tx to the wea module is a weak link. Wea's attitude to flaws with their design, and there are flaws, is that they are perfect and your equipment is the problem. The customer service if you are not german can sometimes be bad, they speak english fine but have sometimes given the impression that they aren't interested in anyone who is not german. My current contact with tech support suggests that is rapidly improving though.

All wea rx are highly programmable. This allows you to use just one tx channel per function which frees channels for more functions such as lights, gyro gains etc. For example you just use one channel for ailerons and in the rx you map it to as many outputs as you need, each output having its own multi point curve, travel, centre, failsafe and so on. Mixing can be done in the rx too, but can't be switched on and off from tx.

After each flying session I copy the flight data to pc and check the frames data just to make sure I am not having problems. The tx module has 2 aerials as do the rx and the system records, per second, the number of frames your tx gave to the wea module, how many the wea transmitted, how many that each of the two rx systems received, what control position you transmitted for each channel and what position the rx then actually passed to the servo (there can be differences due to rx mixing, gyro input, failsafe etc). It also has voltage and current data (no current data in the non 12-22 rx). There is a lot more data as well but those are some of the more useful ones. I also carry the gps module and like to see the 3D ribbon of the flight in google earth as well as typical speeds and heights.

Most rx can be had with 1, 2 or 3 axis gyros built in. The 12-22 rx have built in power management with 8 regulators feeding different groups of outputs so you can arrange considerable redundancy, voltage can be selected 4.8 or 6v independently for each of the 8 regulators so you can mix in any servos that don't work on 6v, and it comes with a "fail to on" switch as standard. If you buy a normal rx of any other brand plus for example powerbox channel splitter with programmability, multiple regulators, failsafe swiches, gyros etc you will pay far more than the price of a 12-22 gyro rx.

I know the flaws in wea because I have used it for a few years and it is still the only system I use in my jets and I have no immediate plans to change. The one thing that has really irked me is the customer service but that has recently improved much and I can email direct to their tech guys who understand and reply in good english.
Old 09-16-2012, 10:09 AM
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Default RE: Weatronics....considering a change .is it worth the investment?


ORIGINAL: HarryC

The 12-22 rx have built in power management with 8 regulators feeding different groups of outputs so you can arrange considerable redundancy, voltage can be selected 4.8 or 6v independently for each of the 8 regulators so you can mix in any servos that don't work on 6v, and it comes with a ''fail to on'' switch as standard. If you buy a normal rx of any other brand plus for example powerbox channel splitter with programmability, multiple regulators, failsafe swiches, gyros etc you will pay far more than the price of a 12-22 gyro rx.
Hi Harry

How voltage stable are the regulators? Does the Wea system let you do an after-flight check of the minimum voltages produced by each regulator during a flight? If so, do the 4.8V regs remain solid at 4.8 and the 6V ones at 6 during a flight, or is there some voltage drop under load?

Cheers

Gordon
Old 09-16-2012, 11:23 AM
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Default RE: Weatronics....considering a change .is it worth the investment?


ORIGINAL: bigbri

OK.....So I have been flying Futaba 2.4 for a few years and it had been very good to me. Now I am considering upgrading my gear to weatronics. I hear it has many advantages over Futaba and SPectrum Could those of you that inderstand the advantages or disadvantages please explain it to me
Let me turn it around and ask you what the Futaba system can not do that you wished it did?

I think that the Weatronics technology is quite impressive. On the other hand, having used the Futaba FASST technology in all of my RC airplanes, including my jets, and also having used it extensively in a number of UAV applications, I can tell you that it is rock solid and anything that Weatronics does to make (or appear to make) the RF link more robust is overkill. The FASST RF link is reliable enough that the weak link in the chain is always something else - that the Weatronics system doesn't help you with.

That, coupled with the fact that the Weatronics customer service and availability is so bad, and has been for so long, made me write it off as a viable option soon after it came out...

Bob
Old 09-16-2012, 11:48 AM
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Edgar Perez
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Default RE: Weatronics....considering a change .is it worth the investment?

ORIGINAL: rhklenke
Let me turn it around and ask you what the Futaba system can not do that you wished it did?
I have been using it for several years in a 12FG. I think the single most value add is the real-time logging system. Although not perfect, it allow you to check for RF quality, get alarms for voltage (Tx,RX) and quality of signal. Maybe the 18MZ can do some of that, not sure.

I believe other system are catching-up, so its a matter of time.. Lets see what they do next.

and yes, still waiting for the English voice file [:@]
Old 09-16-2012, 04:29 PM
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Default RE: Weatronics....considering a change .is it worth the investment?

ORIGINAL: bigbri

OK.....So I have been flying Futaba 2.4 for a few years and it had been very good to me.

Big B, you haven't had a problem with your radios for as long as I can remember. As the old saying goes... " If it ain't broke, don't fix it".

.... Why spend the money?? [8D]
Old 09-16-2012, 06:02 PM
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Default RE: Weatronics....considering a change .is it worth the investment?

ORIGINAL: Boomerang1

You may want to PM roger.alli a regular poster here.

He lost a Bandit while flying Weatronics & it was discussed on the thread mentioned above.

I don't know the outcome & RCU has been on the fritz so I couldn't check it. - John.
Hi Guys,

My final conclusion on my Bandit loss was posted in the Weatronics thread, post # 1881.

In summery. the model was lost due to poor radio link quality. This was obvious from the recorded data and verified by Weatronics. The reason for the poor RF link was not determined, and probably never will be. HOWEVER, the Wea system worked admirably well in that the receiver data was being recorded right until the final loss of control. Examining this data enabled us to rule out all the other usual crash causes. Without this data, this crash would have been just another unexplained lock out.

I still have faith in the system, and will continue to use it in my jets. (I have of course replaced all the radio equipment that was involved in the crash).

I will answer the Ops question as follows. (My opinion only.)

The Weatronics 2.4 system radio link is probably no better (or worse) than the other high end 2.4 frequency hopping radios. One point worth noting is the fact that hardware is manufactured in Germany, not the far east.

Weatronics has, without question, the most comprehensive telemetry system available for model use. If telemetry is your thing, this is the system to have..

All the Weatronics receivers are extensively user programmable. As noted above by Harry, all Rxs can be purchased with gyros built into the boards. The large receivers have regulators, GPS, battery switching functions etc. This puts a lot of equipment into one box that you would otherwise need to purchase and wire up separately.

The whole system is interfaced via a PC using Wetronics free software. Updates are also free. You will need some PC skills to drive it, although it is not terribly difficult. A PC interface is required because the amount of data recorded is enormous, and the programmability of the RXs is very flexible. Most of the data and programmability is not really required for normal model operations, but if you like to have these functions (as I do), it is the best platform available that I know of.

To summarise,
Advantages, Wetronics systems is light years ahead of the competition in Telemetry, and User Programmability.
Disadvantages. They are miles behind in customer service, (although there are signs this is getting better), and there are a few holes in their system. (No English voice file for example).

My opinions only..

Roger
Old 09-16-2012, 07:13 PM
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Default RE: Weatronics....considering a change .is it worth the investment?


ORIGINAL: roger.alli

[snip]

In summery. the model was lost due to poor radio link quality. This was obvious from the recorded data and verified by Weatronics. The reason for the poor RF link was not determined, and probably never will be. HOWEVER, the Wea system worked admirably well in that the receiver data was being recorded right until the final loss of control. Examining this data enabled us to rule out all the other usual crash causes. Without this data, this crash would have been just another unexplained lock out.

[snip]

My opinions only..

Roger
Not to be a jerk, but your logic escapes me - you lost a model because of a poor RF link, but the advantage of the system is that it told you it was a poor RF link. I would think that the ideal would be a system that avoids having a poor RF link in the first place.

As far as where its manufactured, some things manufactured in the west (or Europe) are far exceeded by things manufactured in Asia - it depends more on by whom than where...

Bob
Old 09-16-2012, 09:07 PM
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Default RE: Weatronics....considering a change .is it worth the investment?

Not to be a jerk, but your logic escapes me - you lost a model because of a poor RF link, but the advantage of the system is that it told you it was a poor RF link. I would think that the ideal would be a system that avoids having a poor RF link in the first place.

As far as where its manufactured, some things manufactured in the west (or Europe) are far exceeded by things manufactured in Asia - it depends more on by whom than where...

You are far from being a jerk Bob. It’s a good question. Perhaps I need to explain better.

It would be fantastic if I could purchase a system that avoids ever having a poor RF link in the first place, and I would do it in a heartbeat. I’m not sure however that such a system exists. There is plenty of anecdotal user evidence around that other top end radio systems such as JR, Futaba, Spectrum, Multiplex etc, do suffer from unexplained lockouts, albeit rare, but it does happen. I’m not saying Weatronics is better, (in fact my experience proves otherwise), but I don’t believe their RF system is any worse.

The data told us that the cause of my lock out and subsequent crash was due to poor signal strength. I do see this as being a real advantage over other systems because if I did not have this data, I would have had to diagnose the crash by eliminating all of the items that can cause a lockout. Batteries, cables, plugs etc would all be suspects. With the data that the Wea system provides, we could at least narrow it to the Tx/Rx link.

Now obviously this is far from ideal, as I still have no definitive answer why the link failed. Weatronics Gernmany suspects either external interference or a poor receiver/antenna installation. I’m not so sure, but with nothing else to go on I have accept it, and move on.

So I was faced with two options after the crash. Persist with Weatronics, or ditch it all together and start afresh by purchasing all new equipment. Believe me, this was a very hard decision for me to make and gave me a lot of heart ache. An unexplained radio link failure really shakes you up.

What decided it for me was that my incident aside, all other Weatronic users that I know of I have never had a problem with the radio link. It is only anecdotal, but the general consensus of users, (including people like Oli and DG) is that the Wea radio link is very good. My experience seems to be a one off. Aside from that I have a fair bit invested in Weatronics, and I really do like the telemetry and programmability. (This is nothing of course without a good RF link.) So I decided to stay with Weatronics.

Your comment on the quality of manufacturing in Europe versus Asia is valid.

Roger
Old 09-17-2012, 12:00 AM
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Default RE: Weatronics....considering a change .is it worth the investment?

ORIGINAL: Gordon W
Hi Harry

How voltage stable are the regulators? Does the Wea system let you do an after-flight check of the minimum voltages produced by each regulator during a flight? If so, do the 4.8V regs remain solid at 4.8 and the 6V ones at 6 during a flight, or is there some voltage drop under load?

Cheers

Gordon
Hi Gordon, it doesn't record the output voltage, only the voltage of each battery at the input to the regs. Each reg is rated at 5A and only has to run 3 servos. The software blocks you from putting multiple servos of the same tx channel onto the same regulator. For example, reg 1 powers servos 1, 9 and 17. You have 4 aileron servos to assign, and the tx is sending aileron on channel 1. You assign servo output 1 to the incoming aileron channel, and the software immediately blocks outputs 9 and 17 from also being assigned to the tx channel 1. So you assign the second aileron servo to output 2 and it immediately blocks outputs 10 and 18 from being assigned to channel 1, and so on for each next assignment. This prevents all the other servos of that one function that would operate and draw max current at the exact same time from being powered by that one regulator, you have to use outputs from 4 different regs to run those 4 servos. Also, should any one reg fail, any other servos doing that function will be powered by a different reg and so will still work. The entire backplate of the 12-22 is an aluminium heat sink for the regs.
cheers,
H
Old 09-17-2012, 01:30 AM
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Default RE: Weatronics....considering a change .is it worth the investment?

"The data told us that the cause of my lock out and subsequent crash was due to poor signal strength. I do see this as being a real advantage over other systems because if I did not have this data, I would have had to diagnose the crash by eliminating all of the items that can cause a lockout. Batteries, cables, plugs etc would all be suspects. With the data that the Wea system provides, we could at least narrow it to the Tx/Rx link."

Also not trying to be a jerk, but if the RF link was good enough to transmit/receive data why was it not good enough to drive some servo's?

Mike
Old 09-17-2012, 02:58 AM
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Default RE: Weatronics....considering a change .is it worth the investment?

Bob, I fly Futaba so I am NOT bashing Futaba. But what I find inescusable is that the top brands do not give a real time indication of signal quality. Some sort of alarm to let you know that the signal being received in the aircraft is getting weaker than a set amount. Maybe the new Futaba 18 does this, but certainly not my 12FG. Weatronics allows you to see this. Were it not for the legendary crappy customer service, I'd be flying brand W.
Old 09-17-2012, 03:06 AM
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Default RE: Weatronics....considering a change .is it worth the investment?

Yeah Brian! What Mike said!

Bob
Old 09-17-2012, 03:33 AM
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Default RE: Weatronics....considering a change .is it worth the investment?


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Old 09-17-2012, 05:02 AM
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Default RE: Weatronics....considering a change .is it worth the investment?

My final conclusion on my Bandit loss was posted in the Weatronics thread, post # 1881.

In summery. the model was lost due to poor radio link quality. This was obvious from the recorded data and verified by Weatronics. The reason for the poor RF link was not determined, and probably never will be. HOWEVER, the Wea system worked admirably well in that the receiver data was being recorded right until the final loss of control. Examining this data enabled us to rule out all the other usual crash causes. Without this data, this crash would have been just another unexplained lock out.
Question.. did your weatronics Rx had daul receivers ? and if so did the data shows both rx suffer the same weak signal?

P.S Maybe weatronics should look into a new TX with weak link booster hidden inside the Telemetry down-link just like cellphones...Just kidding [&o]
Old 09-17-2012, 06:34 AM
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Default RE: Weatronics....considering a change .is it worth the investment?

Thanks guys. ....it seems to me from this thread weatronics has some customer service issues Also seems over complicated, along with limited, if any customer support I think the best thing for me right now is to stay with Futaba ..it has.been a solid system for me
Old 09-17-2012, 07:06 AM
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Default RE: Weatronics....considering a change .is it worth the investment?

Guys,
Multiplex has the real time signal quality % figure right on the TX screen all the time.

simples

David
Old 09-17-2012, 07:11 AM
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Default RE: Weatronics....considering a change .is it worth the investment?


ORIGINAL: David J Ruskin

Guys,
Multiplex has the real time signal quality % figure right on the TX screen all the time.

simples

David
Unfortunately, M-link doesn't have FCC. Graupners HOTT also does this though and is FCC'd. Still, neither record RSSI , tx frames, rx frames at every second of flight like Weatronic does.

HOTT also has programable receivers in similar fashion to Wea. Futaba is lagging way behind in this kind of stuff although new 18MZ has some telemetry functions but, nothing indicating the conditon of the RF link.

Not mentioned is that the Weatronic uses 2 patch antenna to transmit to 2 receivers offering redundancy. It also hops across the entire 81 channel band ( other hopping systems "FASST & DSMX" typically hop across approx 30 channels) and it "looks" ahead to avoid the busy ones rather than just hopping across them.

Roger's files, if I remember correct, showed very low #'s on both receivers although not identical, thus either a problem with the equipment or very harsh RF environment

I've never seen anything but, outstanding RF #'s on my Wea equipment.

Mike


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