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  1. #26

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    RE: One of the luckiest days of my life


    ORIGINAL: Erik R


    ORIGINAL: -JC-

    Phillip,

    I have flown into clouds on occasion, just for fun. All you have to do is cut to idle and snap the plane. It will then spin into sight pretty much where it disappeared. Of course, if the clouds are at 200 feet, this may not be the best solution, but continuing on a straight and level flight path sounds like a bad idea. You want to get the plane under the clouds asap and when you know where it will reappear.
    John,

    I've quoted your original post,so that it remains here,should you try to delete it.My only question to you would be,how do you think the FAA or AMA would feel about you occasionally flying your turbine jets in the clouds ''for fun''? I think it's an incredibly stupid,irresponsible action,only trumped by the stupidity of posting it in a public forum.

    Erik
    AGREED, as I fly full scale as well!


  2. #27
    invertmast's Avatar
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    RE: One of the luckiest days of my life

    First thought:

    An idiot and his money is soon parted


    As i cant imagine anyone who values there possessions putting $5,000+ in a scenario that could potentially end disastrous. Flying in any clouds that could hamper visibility with the model is just irresponsible.
    Thomas W.
    Euro-sport Evo, Scratch built 1/7 F-14D Tomcat, 26.5% Gee Bee R2

  3. #28
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    RE: One of the luckiest days of my life


    ORIGINAL: jetpilot


    ORIGINAL: Erik R


    ORIGINAL: -JC-

    Phillip,

    I have flown into clouds on occasion, just for fun. All you have to do is cut to idle and snap the plane. It will then spin into sight pretty much where it disappeared. Of course, if the clouds are at 200 feet, this may not be the best solution, but continuing on a straight and level flight path sounds like a bad idea. You want to get the plane under the clouds asap and when you know where it will reappear.
    John,

    I've quoted your original post,so that it remains here,should you try to delete it.My only question to you would be,how do you think the FAA or AMA would feel about you occasionally flying your turbine jets in the clouds ''for fun''? I think it's an incredibly stupid,irresponsible action,only trumped by the stupidity of posting it in a public forum.

    Erik

    John, your a idiot for posting this, so dont try and erase it, cause I just quoted it, so everyone can see what an idiot you are for posting this, in a public forum, so if you did try and erase it, so nobody can see it, I still have it here quoted for everyone to see so they will know what an idiot you are for posting this, and know what you did, and how bad it is for you to do it, and then post it, then try and erase it, but then I quoted it, so its permanent!!

    Scott, I quoted your quote so I have proof that you quoted something quoted by someone else quoting what I quoted. Now also you can't erase what you quoted so it will be forever quoted in the quotation above :-)

    I'm glad that you are wearing man pants. Those pink panties look pretty redicoulous while chasing birds with your quad copter. And, you can quote me on that.

    Girls... Ease up. In your doomsday scenario, someone is cruising around in IFR conditions. What is so hard to understand about a little fluffy cloud? It must be really boring where you live if it does not take more to bring on menopause :-)

    Nothing unsafe was done. I don't exactly have a reputation for unsafe flying. AND, you have no idea if this was done in Mexico or the US. Know the fact before you comment.
    John C

  4. #29
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    RE: One of the luckiest days of my life

    You guys must get alot of fullsize traffic at 200 ft over your flying field.
    Is 200ft a popular altitude? On low cloudy days? Over flying fields?
    whos the daredevil?
    Scott Marr

  5. #30
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    RE: One of the luckiest days of my life


    ORIGINAL: jetpilot

    You guys must get alot of fullsize traffic at 200 ft over your flying field.
    Is 200ft a popular altitude? On low cloudy days? Over flying fields?
    whos the daredevil?
    Not 200, but my flying field is near the downwind leg of where i work at. We maintain a 900' traffic pattern altitude at work due to the location and short landing distance we have. I have routinely seen model traffic at my altitude while on the entry to downwind, and these are the older guys flying 1/3 cubs. Throw in any model and a limited visibilty, but still marginal vfr day and things change dramatically.

    That said, my job entails operations at 300'agl (at night) and 500'agl (daytime) in various parts of the country at different times of the year. I have seen many night flyers at 300'agl and was only able to pick them up with night vision goggles, and when operating at 150kias, things pop up in a hurry. Ive seen many flying clubs as well!


    Moral of the story, just bc you are doing something low, doesnt necessarily mean that there isnt a fullscale airplane doing something low (legally or not) as well. Again, this is where the see and avoid comes into play. Imo if there is any possibility in loosing sight with the model for any extended period of time, you shouldnt be flying it.
    Thomas W.
    Euro-sport Evo, Scratch built 1/7 F-14D Tomcat, 26.5% Gee Bee R2

  6. #31
    jetpilot's Avatar
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    RE: One of the luckiest days of my life

    It reminds me of when I was in college and I used to drive home occasionally on the weekends. late at night, it would get really dark in southeast Texas. Highways would not have anyone on them for miles. There were not any street lights for miles either. I would turn off my headlights and drive for as long as I could. you couldnt see the hand in front of your face. I would see how far I could go in the pitch black night with no lights on. oh yea and at 65mph.
    really stupid, but really fun!
    now I just text and drive for excitement!

    i just watched mythbusters fly an airplane made out of duct tape!! scary!!
    everyone should watch youtube for 30 minutes and desensitize.

    Scott Marr

  7. #32
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    RE: One of the luckiest days of my life

    The LAW in the UK (as defined in CAP658) states :

    (3) The person in charge of a small unmanned aircraft must maintain direct, unaided visual contact with the aircraft sufficient to monitor its flight path in relation to other aircraft, persons, vehicles, vessels and structures for the purpose of avoiding collisions.

    FAA regulations may vary.

    ErikR, Dustflyer, you guys know the score in air safety, you are professionals. I, as a retired airline captain who has worked in professional air safety, have raised many safety issues relating to RC jets which would not even raise an eyebrow in professional circles, they're just the norm. I've lost count of number of personal insults I have received, almost all from incredibly ignorant people , so far as air safety, indeed aviation in general, is concerned, so don't be deterred !

    Whilst EVERY other branch of aviation that I can think of has safety as its cornerstone, here on RCU the air Safety thread, having not received a SINGLE posting for almost two years, was deleted. says everything, really.

    That said there are very many people in this hobby who DO operate to a very high standard of safety, but it may only take one miscreant to spoil it for us all.

    Either we look after this hobby and our freedom to operate, almost, unregulated which means speaking up as you have done, or we WILL lose it.

    Last thing I want to say is "I told you so'.

    Regards,

    David Gladwin

  8. #33
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    RE: One of the luckiest days of my life

    I completely agree with most people here:

    Yes cant remember who posted this sounds ficticious, but yes if you had been there you would have been as shocked as me, it really was amazing, I still cannot believe it. It is more amazing than the words I can find to describe it. At a guess I would say 1/100?

    Someone previously has said I had a seriously bad judgement call. Maybe I am yet to decide. Without having photos or you being there is it hard to describe the conditions. The sky was mainly overcast so the background was white. The cloud base was low, maybe 700ft. However because of the overcast the white went down to the horizon. People flew before and after me much higher and did not have this effect.

    It seems that a large lump of low cloud had blown in, and was well camoflauged against the overcast background. My spotter nor me, not any other club mate had spotted it or noticed it. The plane did not pop in and out of cloud before hand it just dissapeared within a second at around 250-300ft.

    In this case I wonder how in the UK here that applies to CAP658 David? I have of course passed a BMFA B cert, and received no training as to what to do in this situation. I was panic stricken and probably not in the best state for thinking well.

    Maybe in the UK here the BMFA should have a rule that you must cut the engine? Back on the ground that became obvious to me, but in the panic stricken seconds when my pants were filling I was just thinking about flying the plane (in my minds eye)

    As pointed out by the full size pilots here, flying a model into the cloud intentionally is against CAP658 in the UK hereand there is no excuse, however I would imagine/hope the are referring to the plane popping in and out of very thin cloud, and not losing sight of it.

    David Gladwin I've read your posts before and have respect for your opinion, have I made a bad judgement here? Been negligent? Do I have any defense here if I had damaged anything/anyone?

    My club mates witnessed it, and I will ask them next week if they think I made a bad call.




  9. #34
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    RE: One of the luckiest days of my life

    Phillip,

    You made an honest mistake,and came on here humbly,asking for advice on how to avoid/handle it in the future.You can only learn good judgement through experience.I believe you will.What upset me was it being posted here that there was intentional cloud penetration for fun.I believe you learned a lesson here,and it will make you a better jet pilot in the future.Regards,

    Erik

  10. #35
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    RE: One of the luckiest days of my life

    ORIGINAL: Erik R

    Phillip,

    You made an honest mistake,and came on here humbly,asking for advice on how to avoid/handle it in the future.You can only learn good judgement through experience.I believe you will.What upset me was it being posted here that there was intentional cloud penetrationfor fun.I believe you learned a lesson here,and it will make you a better jet pilot in the future.Regards,

    Erik
    "Intentional Cloud penetration""

    Classic!!!!!
    Horizon Hobby

  11. #36

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    RE: One of the luckiest days of my life

    In my sky, turkey vultures, crows and seagulls sometimes wander by and we go for headshots to minimize airframe damage ... actually I'm new to RC aircraft and would never consider chasing birds.

    But I have experienced the instant uncomfortableness of losing sight of my plane for even a second or two, agree that flying into clouds to (maybe) see where it eventually comes out maybe isn't such a good idea. And avoiding low-flying Airbuses sounds best, as I wouldn't want to distract a passenger from enjoying a ground-hugging, sphincter-tightening manoeuvre by also sucking a model into an engine as they sailed low over the corn.

    It's a very cool hobby that requires respect. F=MA, and I wouldn't want one coming through my windshield. Take-offs are optional; safe flight and controlled landings should be mandatory. No headlines are good headlines.

  12. #37
    David Gladwin's Avatar
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    RE: One of the luckiest days of my life

    Not for one moment did I say you were negligent, but we need to discuss these things in an open and intelligent matter. You did say, however that a mist was coming in but you thought it would clear ! I don't know enough about your event to make any further detailed comment. If nothing else your incident may serve to generate some thought on any similar situation which may arise, which is good.

    You do, however, raise a very good point about changing cloud conditions and being caught out, as you were, does not neccesarily signify negligence. I frequently hear about fullsize private pilots being caught out by the weather, it happens with the best will in the world. Similarly I have recently been reading extensively on the Air New Zealand Mount Erebus accident ( a DC10 flew into the mountain killing all on board) in Antarctica. So many professionals jumped to the conclusion, as did the original accident report, that the captain was negligent but further, in-depth, investigation revealed some little known details of white-out in Antarctic regions. The crew were later found NOT to have been negligent but it took the dedication of a very senior ANZ captain to get to the root of the cause. Weather can be VERY fickle.

    No, the point I have been trying to get across in model jet aviation, unsuccessfully with some people, is that we need to follow the example of fullsize aviation and do all that we can to minimize accidents and to learn from those which do occur with the aim of preventing recurrences.

    I think the advice or recovering from an in- cloud situation to shut down the engine and enter a spin is sound In a spin the ONLY way the model, or any other aeroplane, is going is down plus any wind drift !

    So far as the CAA are concerned my experience is that they are reasonable people, flagrant and deliberate breaches of the rules are very much frowned upon, you can expect their wrath, do something deliberately illegal or contrary to basic common sense and then try and cover it up will win you no support at the CAA. Make a genuine mistake, be open about it, that is the current culture which has taken a long time to achieve and has been instrumental in achieving the very high standards of safety which we currently enjoy in all branches of aviation, bot civil and military.

    I'll leave it at that.

    Regards,

    David.

  13. #38

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    RE: One of the luckiest days of my life

    This thread couldn't be more interesting.
    It gave me back a reason to wake up early, to see what was going on.

    I can summarize my three conclusions:

    -Scott and JC are mentally deranged. They shouldn't be allowed to be near a RC Transmitter anymore. They are a danger for freedom.
    -Commercial airlines are flying too low.
    -Philip is the luckiest guy in the world. Not even looking at my model I can get it wing level and aligned with the runway from the left.


    Jack
    TEAM HORIZON

  14. #39

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    RE: One of the luckiest days of my life

    Now without humor:

    The key to survival when you do extreme sports is to practice how to solve every possible life threatening situation, while you have full control and a clear mind.
    If you wait for the problem to happen to start learning how to solve it, you are doomed.

    When in control and safe, practice and practice how to come out of weird situations.
    Philip would have known what to do, without almost getting a heart attack.

    Jack
    TEAM HORIZON

  15. #40
    rcjetsaok's Avatar
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    RE: One of the luckiest days of my life

    I remeber many years ago at Deland,Fl. early one morning in low weather a couple of guys from Brazil ( I think..long time ago ) took off anf proceded to get in the soup and loose sight... There answer was they turned the Transmitter off and waited for it to land by itself. Well as you muust know it came down and made a smoking hole. Luckily not in the pits or anywhere ese of concern. They turned around and walked off the flightline talking and confused as to what happened. The debriefing showed that they thought if you turned the Transmitter off, the Fail Safe feature in the radio would automatically land the airplane from where it took off.. You talking about not having a clue !!!!! That ranks up ther pretty high on my list if STUPID... I bet they never did that again...


    Danno.

  16. #41
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    RE: One of the luckiest days of my life

    ORIGINAL: jetpilot

    It reminds me of when I was in college and I used to drive home occasionally on the weekends. late at night, it would get really dark in southeast Texas. Highways would not have anyone on them for miles. There were not any street lights for miles either. I would turn off my headlights and drive for as long as I could. you couldnt see the hand in front of your face. I would see how far I could go in the pitch black night with no lights on. oh yea and at 65mph.
    really stupid, but really fun!
    now I just text and drive for excitement!

    i just watched mythbusters fly an airplane made out of duct tape!! scary!!
    everyone should watch youtube for 30 minutes and desensitize.

    Thanks for the idea. I'll try it on my way to Best in the West driving your truck pulling your 32ft trailer. It will add a little excitement on a rather boring drive as I don't text while driving. I use Siri now. With the speed limits now 75 and 80 in some places in Texas, that will add even more excitement.
    Bob-O
    I Crashed All My Planes, Can I Fly Yours

  17. #42
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    RE: One of the luckiest days of my life

    I'd add the key to surviving extreme sports is to have an option, i.e. to have an out. When you are out of options, youre screwed.
    P-40 Brotherhood #112

  18. #43
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    RE: One of the luckiest days of my life

    I'm not a jet flyer, the title of course caught my attention and it surely is an amazing story, glad it turned out well. I do know the Farview guys, Erik, Rick and others and they take their flyiing and safety seriously. I agree that anything we do in this hobby that brings negative attention to us is going to hurt all of us. From park flyers to 50% or more, we need to practice safety no matter what country we fly in. Better to fly another day than wish you hadn't flown at all. Ihave learned something here about recovering a lost plane by going into a spin, thatcomes from thinking about the worst case and practicing for the unexpected. Thanks.
    If what you believed to be true was false would you want to know the truth?

    "You shall know the truth, and the truth will set you free".

  19. #44
    bcovish's Avatar
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    RE: One of the luckiest days of my life

    I'll tell you how it goes or you may have to read about it in the newspaper
    Bob-O
    I Crashed All My Planes, Can I Fly Yours

  20. #45
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    RE: One of the luckiest days of my life

    This thread has restored my faith in RCUniverse entertainment value.

    Plus it will be on the front page soon, that will "raise the bar" no doubt!
    Matt

  21. #46
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    RE: One of the luckiest days of my life


    ORIGINAL: Erik R


    ORIGINAL: -JC-

    Phillip,

    I have flown into clouds on occasion, just for fun. All you have to do is cut to idle and snap the plane. It will then spin into sight pretty much where it disappeared. Of course, if the clouds are at 200 feet, this may not be the best solution, but continuing on a straight and level flight path sounds like a bad idea. You want to get the plane under the clouds asap and when you know where it will reappear.
    John,

    I've quoted your original post,so that it remains here,should you try to delete it.My only question to you would be,how do you think the FAA or AMA would feel about you occasionally flying your turbine jets in the clouds "for fun"? I think it's an incredibly stupid,irresponsible action,only trumped by the stupidity of posting it in a public forum.

    Erik
    Erik, I'm behind you 100%. I have wateched the same thing happen at a field that was rpimarily used for Navy pilot training. One could never tell when they might show up - or worse yet, the National Guard decide to do some Huey touch and go's.

    AMA is quite clear - YOU MUST KEEP YOU AIRCRAFT IN VIEW AT ALL TIMES.

  22. #47

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    RE: One of the luckiest days of my life

    Matt, why does it have to be a chicken ?????

    (private story)
    TEAM HORIZON

  23. #48
    jetpilot's Avatar
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    RE: One of the luckiest days of my life

    What is all this talk about humping the clouds!!! Gross!!
    Although those Mexican clouds are a bit easy!! and low!!!
    Can you imagine being the first full size pilot to fly through a cloud? wondering what was going to happen? scary!!

    I feel like watching some Bob Hoover videos.



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXTfcdbgU0Q

    Scott Marr

  24. #49
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    RE: One of the luckiest days of my life


    ORIGINAL: Jack Diaz

    Matt, why does it have to be a chicken ?????

    (private story)
    Priceless!....I still remember that night at El Tequila.
    Matt

  25. #50

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    RE: One of the luckiest days of my life

    Heh-heh-heh-heh-Dougie said penitration Bevis
    \"If you ain\'\'t crashed-You ain\'\'t flown\"


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