jetnuno

Hi

We have been watching in the last few years, from many manufacturers and JC in particular, to the following features:

1-Internal kerostart
2-Internal solenoid valves
3-Internal ECU (not in JC)
4-Internal pump

What will be next internal? will they make a turbine with internal landing gear and airplane???

Also another comun feature is the machined compressor.

Of course it is great to make an easy install, but in the end if you have an internal kero plug damaged or a damaged valve, the turbine will have to be shipped for the manufaturer to solve a simple problem. Is this a good thing? I don't believe so....

Service is a profit center and manufacturers think they will protect theirselves with these features.

The same for machined compressors-you will never be able to buy a compressor if it is damaged. Burn plug? Sticky valve? Frozen pump? Return it for service...wait and pay big bucks.

All in all, I feel that I want to stick with old fashion. Am I alone with these thoughts?

Regards

Nuno

Dr Honda

My Feedback: (4)

I'm relatively new to the turbine world... but It seems like all the new features started just as I came in.

While I agree that the internal parts make it easy to install... but you are right... I don't mind having them be external. Especially the pump and ECU. I could live with the internal valves, but it seems like pumps and ECU's don't live forever. Also... if the Kero plug is going internal... it should be designed as a user serviceable part. Last time I checked... they don't live forever either.


But what do I know... I have an old AMT (that doesn't have any valves) and I start it with a 12v blower, and a hand held glow driver.

BUT... the up side to all this... I've gotten some nice used engines cheap because guys are upgrading.

LGM Graphix

My Feedback: (22)

And in another ten years when that engine is twenty years old and has hundreds or thousands of runs on it, it will still run like new without ever needing servicing because it was built to last. AMT, absolute best engines out there, sure, it's bigger, it's clunkier, and it will outlast every other brand out there.
Signed
A very happy AMT owner with all external parts

Dr Honda

My Feedback: (4)

Yep. It's the "Tractor" of the hobby turbine world. My AT-180 is 14 years old, and runs great.

SinCityJets

Nuno,

There is a move to make the turbines as easy as possible to install, however you are correct about them also needing to be serviceable. As most people know, evoJet led the way with the fully internal kero start and internal starting valve solenoid. However we chose to leave some common failure components outside the can. Namely the pump, ecu, and running valve/solenoid. Usually when there is a problem with any turbines, it can be tracked back to one of these three components. The exception of course is just a poor designed, low quality turbine or faulty sub-par major component like a turbine or compressor wheel. Most of the major manufacturers are beyond this issue.

As far as the glow ignitor, we have actually made our kero plugs "user-replaceable." Our goal is to make the turbine as easy to operate as possible, while still making is somewhat user serviceable. The only issue I have seen, besides blown bearings, that the user can not service are the internal micro gas lines. If these become clogged due to oil, dirt, debris, it uaually means a trip back to the factory. This is true for any manufacturer.

I am glad to see customers getting more high tech, more reliable engines. This is certainly one aspect where competition has spurred an increase in quality and return on investment.

Chad

indubitably

My Feedback: (14)

I am really excited to see the simplicity of set up with fewer externals. It really is a simplification when these components go under the hood. Im not afraid of taking the front off the engine, and unwiring the pump, or solenoid and replacing these parts from a new location. The newer plugs are stone cold reliable, and not like the glow plugs borrowed from our glow engines. Since i have never had a solenoid or a pump go out, maybe you can tell me how much harder it will be to remove the engine from the craft, and take off the front housing and remove and replace a solenoid or pump. I know its a pain to think of all the hose routing, and spilt kero in the plane when they are strung out in parts of the fuse. I would take the engine out - so much easier.
John

LGM Graphix

My Feedback: (22)

I have a Pegasus that I believe is a 1998 model as well in my Raptor and even after having sat for 9 years, it still flashed up instantly. My Olympus always brings a smile to my face when it runs. I want to build a Starfire right now and put a Mercury in it, guess I'll be doing a little searching!

DrScoles

My Feedback: (18)

I want the clean install. I held my breath for six months waiting for the P100rx for my bobcat, finally gave up and put a 120 in. Love the idea of hiding stuff. Some of us go through great pains to hide every wire and tube we can to make things look pretty, this is starting the race with a headstart :-)

This is my bobcat install, I really wanted the smaller ecu and onboard gsu! not having to make room for solenoids is another plus in my eyes. How many of us are actually going to maintain our own turbines anyway? Even if I had the skill, don't have the time.

Dr Honda

My Feedback: (4)

I absolutely love the clean look... but more times than not... the inside of an RC jet looks like the inside of any other RC model.

As far as... "How many of us are actually going to maintain our own turbines anyway?" ... I think with the economy being down... more people are doing it.


And finally... I see stories on here all the time about engines being sent out, and taking 4 to 6 weeks in the middle of the flying season to get back. (especially JetCat) If engines have to go in for basic troubleshooting too... then the factory tech's will be overwhelmed, and the turnaround time will get even longer.


If they put all the goodies in the front hood... and make them user serviceable... then it's great. But, if they say you cant take off the front ring without voiding the warranty... then that's bad.



One final thought.....


I know that the engines are getting lighter, in general. But... by putting all the stuff in the engine... it brings the weight up again. AND... depending on the model... that may not be a good thing. I know in all three of my jets... I needed the weight of the ECU, Pump, and valves to be forward of the CG.

If you need the clean look... and want to hide things... then just put them under the switch board.


I'm not opposed to the new style engines... I'm just playing "Devil's Advocate."

BaldEagel

When was the last time any of you serviced your car, you can't adjust anything, its all controlled by an ECU that you as a punter can not replace, tubines are going the same way.

Mike

Countryboy

My Feedback: (25)

You forgot to mention internal starter ... as in the BF-300. I'm sure others will follow soon.

indubitably

My Feedback: (14)

Looks like internal fuel lines as well, as i cannot see them.

FalconWings

My Feedback: (57)

How about a compressor bleed air line that keeps your retract tanks pressurized, as a backup.

Xairflyer

My Feedback: (1)

The valves etc are just under the front cover, normally three screws, amazing still the amount of jet flyers who think a turbine is some sort of scientific instrument you dare not touch.

indubitably

My Feedback: (14)

The bleed pressures are around 60 PSI, but would possibly be hot, as there are not the multitude of compressor phases in our simple jet engines. We are much less efficient because we dont compress the air as much either.

Henke Torphammar

Well, you obviously need to do custom parts to make a turbine engine. The compressor is a great key to high efficiancy and probably one of the most needed billet made. And just not a copy of the casted compressor but designed for turbine use. With efficiancy comes fast spooling, low fuel consumpition and so on.