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F-16 pilot control question

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Old 10-10-2012, 12:56 PM
  #26
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Default RE: F-16 pilot control question

Terry...damn, you're right I'm wrong! You're pretty, I'm ugly (can you tell who's recently married?)

Thanks for the clarification

Dave
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Old 10-10-2012, 01:34 PM
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Default RE: F-16 pilot control question

I still think the sluggish roll rate is more of a nose heavy issue than throw. I'd move batteries aft some and see how it behaves. I also use aileron differential ( helps on tight turns).

One thing I have noticed though, 90% of large F-16 pilots don't push the airframe hard enough.
It's a Viper, wings should flex on those turns.

All the best.
David
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Old 10-10-2012, 02:03 PM
  #28
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Default RE: F-16 pilot control question


Quote:
ORIGINAL: ozief16

OD: Sorry to slang it up; Buck has hung up his spurs, turned in his man card, picked up some adult diapers, given up his legacy as a TOW gunner and fighter pilot and now flies 737s for SW. 73 is slang for a 737. Viper is slang for F-16. That goes back to the early days of the jet. The production company that did Buck Rogers used an F-16 stick grip (fairly unique) in their little spaceship fighters which were called....Vipers.

ENT: Fly by wire means there is no physical connection between the stick and...anything. There are no cables running to hydraulic actuators, actual flight controls, etc. There are wires running to a computer where you are merely a voting member (i.e. I'd like to do this...I'm sorry Dave, I can't do that). In the F-16 the stick is merely a pressure sensor. Different stick pressures equate to different G loads or AOA (i.e. 25#'s stick pressure equals max G (9Gs) or AOA (varies) (depending on airspeed)...you can pull more if you like, but you won't get more G or AOA).

Dave
Thanks for the clarifications. Some good information there.
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Old 10-10-2012, 02:15 PM
  #29
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Default RE: F-16 pilot control question

Good grief Buck, the only time I ever saw or heard of a Horent getting behind a Viper was when it was towed behind it by the maintenance crews at an air show! Never in the air!
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Old 10-10-2012, 02:48 PM
  #30
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Default RE: F-16 pilot control question

Hmm, So I am not the only one that saved a -1, OK I also saved the weapons system 954GS, Safe for Maint Job Guide, M61A1 Gatlin manual, Job guides and all my lesson plans. Still not sure why I cant toss them. Glad I am not the only one
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Old 10-10-2012, 03:54 PM
  #31
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Default RE: F-16 pilot control question

I have a Skymaster f18 getting ready to fly for the first time next week has anyone flown one of those with the tailerons. I am assuming that is when the elevators work as ailerons also? Does anyone know how to mix those up on a 12x?
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Old 10-10-2012, 04:37 PM
  #32
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: John Redman

Good grief Buck, the only time I ever saw or heard of a Horent getting behind a Viper was when it was towed behind it by the maintenance crews at an air show! Never in the air!
Actually John, you are wrong again. In the air, Hornets get behind Vipers all the time ... That happens when the Viper passes the Hornet.

I hope your wife doesn't see this, only to find out that you were wrong again!
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Old 10-10-2012, 05:00 PM
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Default RE: F-16 pilot control question

I once knew a pilot in the U.A.E Air Force who was in Tucson, Az for training on the F-16. He had also flown Mirages, not sure exactly which model. I asked him which plane he preferred - the F-16 or the Mirage. I think I remember him saying that for it's intended mission the F-16 was a great aircraft. He hesitated then said he actually preferred the Mirage. Would those two planes fly the same mission, or what the F-16 be more capable of attack missions?

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Old 10-10-2012, 05:08 PM
  #34
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Default RE: F-16 pilot control question

OD,

Hemingway once said: "You love a lot of things if you live around them, but there isn’t any woman, and there isn’t any horse, nor any before nor any after, that is as lovely as great airplane, and men who love them are faithful to them even though they leave them for others. A man has only one virginity to lose in fighters, and if it is a lovely plane he
loses it to, there his heart will ever be." — Ernest Hemingway August 1944

I think everyone remembers their first love with unwavering affinity.

Dave
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Old 10-10-2012, 05:20 PM
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Default RE: F-16 pilot control question

UAE flies Block 60's, the D model is a pig with wings. The C model however gets with the program.
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Old 10-10-2012, 05:23 PM
  #36
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: ozief16

OD,

Hemingway once said: ''You love a lot of things if you live around them, but there isn’t any woman, and there isn’t any horse, nor any before nor any after, that is as lovely as great airplane, and men who love them are faithful to them even though they leave them for others. A man has only one virginity to lose in fighters, and if it is a lovely plane he
loses it to, there his heart will ever be.'' — Ernest Hemingway August 1944

I think everyone remembers their first love with unwavering affinity.

Dave
Ok - I'm guessing my friend from Dubai probably flew the Mirage before he flew the F16.

All I've ever flown is an ultralight and a Cessna172. I'd be extremely happy to fly in the back seat of an Embraer Tucano Pilatus PC-9, or a Texan II. Those must be pretty tame to Viper drivers?

Sorry - getting off topic.

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Old 10-10-2012, 05:34 PM
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Default RE: F-16 pilot control question

OD,

I got a ride in a T-6 one time for something (I flew Tweets in UPT) and loved it! We spun the ever living **** out of that thing. I kept asking the IP I was with if we could spin again..and again...and again. SFOs (Simulated Flame Outs) are a riot (I think hi-key is something like 2500' instead of the ~10k we use in the Viper).

I'd love to have one to buzz around in for fun.

Dave
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Old 10-10-2012, 05:36 PM
  #38
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Default RE: F-16 pilot control question

FW brings up a good point about the Block 60s as well...they are heavy heavy compared to other models of the F-16. I've neven flown a 60 (just 25, 30, 32, 42, and 50), so this is conjecture but I think the lighter the better. They have a bigger motor to compensate, but there's a huge difference in the feel of a 25/30/32 vs a 40/50.

Hopefully we're not too far off Fender's original question...if we are, sorry man.

Dave
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Old 10-10-2012, 06:28 PM
  #39
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Default RE: F-16 pilot control question

I love how my Avonds F-15 flys just on stabilators, wish I still had my Falcon but thats another story... Like FW said its probably a balance issue if sluggish, fly it like you stole it on stabs and have fun!

Check out the link below, just out goofing around with a mini key chain camera velcro'd to the bottom of my Eagle.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xF4T0AMk6O4&feature=youtube_gdata_player
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Old 10-10-2012, 07:00 PM
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Default RE: F-16 pilot control question

The CG is okay, im going to mix in some tailerons and try the flaperons as well. If I like it I will probably disable the ailerons when flaps go down just and have only tailerons for landing. Well see I will report back
Quote:
ORIGINAL: Mark Basel

I love how my Avonds F-15 flys just on stabilators, wish I still had my Falcon but thats another story... Like FW said its probably a balance issue if sluggish, fly it like you stole it on stabs and have fun!

Check out the link below, just out goofing around with a mini key chain camera velcro'd to the bottom of my Eagle.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xF4T0AMk6O4&feature=youtube_gdata_player
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Old 10-10-2012, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: tenacious101010

Hmm, So I am not the only one that saved a -1, OK I also saved the weapons system 954GS, Safe for Maint Job Guide, M61A1 Gatlin manual, Job guides and all my lesson plans. Still not sure why I cant toss them. Glad I am not the only one
Whats the date on the A pages? A lot of changes in a few short years. We are fully computerized now so no more paper JG's on the flight line, just tablet computers.
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Old 10-10-2012, 08:03 PM
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Default RE: F-16 pilot control question

Airplanes400 - I will make sure she never sees this.

Cfircav8r - no more JG's. that would be heaven. I will say that would also mean no more knee pads to kneel on.

Tenacious101010 - sounds like you have them all. Nice!
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Old 10-10-2012, 08:20 PM
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: yeahbaby

...when they look in the rear view mirror....after they are done looking at themselves and see a mean green F18 back there gunning' their brains out.
No rear view mirror in the F-16.

Kurt
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Old 10-10-2012, 08:47 PM
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Default RE: F-16 pilot control question


Quote:
ORIGINAL: ozief16

OD,

Hemingway once said: ''You love a lot of things if you live around them, but there isn’t any woman, and there isn’t any horse, nor any before nor any after, that is as lovely as great airplane, and men who love them are faithful to them even though they leave them for others. A man has only one virginity to lose in fighters, and if it is a lovely plane he
loses it to, there his heart will ever be.'' — Ernest Hemingway August 1944

I think everyone remembers their first love with unwavering affinity.

Dave
I am going to show this quote to my wife

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Old 10-10-2012, 09:14 PM
  #45
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Default RE: F-16 pilot control question


Quote:
ORIGINAL: John Redman

Airplanes400 - I will make sure she never sees this.

Cfircav8r - no more JG's. that would be heaven. I will say that would also mean no more knee pads to kneel on.

Tenacious101010 - sounds like you have them all. Nice!
Technically they are the same job guides, but they are all available at the touch of a stylus. No longer do you have to run back in to get a JG because the crew chief wants you to "check out the radio real quick, it was sqealing and ops doesn't want to test the pilots P lead if its the radio". The best part is they automatically update, so no more A paging.
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Old 10-10-2012, 09:38 PM
  #46
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Default RE: F-16 pilot control question

Roger,

My wife is patient enough she actually dug up a pic of me with theViper, had the quote engraved on it and framed the whole thing for me.

Buck,

Still on for the 26th? How about Sin City? Kelly keeps asking when you're coming and every time I give her a good-game on the tush she says "oh, did Buck call?".
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Old 10-10-2012, 09:46 PM
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Default RE: F-16 pilot control question

well after two nights of messing around I finally got everything added, I have three conditions one for take off/landing and two for gear up flight, I added two so I could mess around with settings easier. I setup 3 different D/R and Expo for each condition which with each being selectable during flight so I can pick which one feels best. I added flaperons on a side slider and the tailerons to the conditions except the landing and take off condition, until I can get airborne and test them, once I have the settings/throws dialed in I will just simply copy the flight condition to the landing condition. Also added some up elevator that works with the flaps, as I lower the flaps on the slider it adds up elevator at the same time and same for gear down which i will trim out on first flight. I got tired of having to hold up elevator all the time with gear down. Makes it hard to grease the landings when your fighting a dive [:-]

The 14mz is pretty amazing and easy to do once u figure it out. The tailerons are named ailevons on the menu so once I found that it was super easy to set. The flaperons are done with camber mixing(Thanks futaba FAQ page), which also includes the up elevator adjustment for flaps. The up elevator on the gear down I did with a mixing activated by the gear switch and added a fine tuning ability in the mixing with a rotating nob. I think I may do a video showing all this tomorrow
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Old 10-11-2012, 04:58 AM
  #48
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Default RE: F-16 pilot control question

In my 20 years the only thing I found JG's really good for was a knee pad.

I bet kneeling on a tablet would be painful.
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Old 10-11-2012, 06:02 AM
  #49
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The only time I get to work on planes anymore is when we are over seas. There are too many ancillary duties and training requirements to fill, so the young Airmen end up having all the fun. Besides I'm a "Guard baby" so I need to refresh my memory with the JG's. Don't get me wrong, I can still hold my own, I was able to change two T-grips in 45 mins during a Green Flag exercise. Even then Ops is always trying to shorten our ETC's, so our standby response is "you rush a miracle man you get lousy miracles".
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Old 10-11-2012, 06:30 AM
  #50
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Default RE: F-16 pilot control question

I will have to go check the dates on the tech data, by now,it is old. I agree, the manuals made good seats and the JGs were knee savers. I would guess the last changes posted to most of my tech data would be around 1993. I worked F-16 from early in the program. MacDill was the second base to get F-16s, I was there when they arrived, I took the USAF up on an offer to help set up the F-16 at Kunsan also. So far back, I can remember the black nosed F-16s and the early outrageous chaffing and battery thermal runaway issues that resulted in many incidents and surely deaths. We even had 78-003 at Selfridge, thats an old F-16!
Geez, now that I think of it, I have seen several aircraft I worked in museums and on pedastals in parks. I am suddenly feeling old!
Heres a few pics from back in the day If anyone is looking for scale reference pictures of F-16s or many other warbirds, here is a link to my page where I posted many pictures from my grandfathers album and many images I took of projects and things I was involved in.
Denny

http://rides.webshots.com/album/552141172xfdmUK
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