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  1. #126

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    RE: HOBBYKING - NEVER AGAIN!!!!!!!!

    Hey Combatpigg - I don't think maintaining a good reputation is crucial to HK's success. But many of us do not have that as an expectation from HK. I'm ok with that.

    Kurt

  2. #127

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    RE: HOBBYKING - NEVER AGAIN!!!!!!!!

    Just ordered a sailboat from HobbyKing. What was I thinking about. Will a P60 fit on it though

  3. #128
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    RE: HOBBYKING - NEVER AGAIN!!!!!!!!

    Hmm i wonder how many HK dissenters are mainland Hobby shops in disguise.

    i have purchased from HK for 5 years without a single issue.

    Also by way of example re value: they have a trainer which is a virtual clone of a very well known brand but which is better built and with far better fittings than the name brand.
    Price? $74 against $229

    So who is kidding whom eh?

    if there is the odd hassle getting replacements etc you still cant lose.
    New Fly Species-Helicoptera

  4. #129
    BaldEagel's Avatar
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    RE: HOBBYKING - NEVER AGAIN!!!!!!!!


    ORIGINAL: flyoz

    Also by way of example re value: they have a trainer which is a virtual clone of a very well known brand but which is better built and with far better fittings than the name brand.
    Price? $74 against $229
    Is that a turbine trainer, if so please post a link.

    Mike
    My Gast is Flabered.
    No matter what anyone say's 100% is the maximum you can get.
    If you see a deleted post, my Avatar say's it all.

  5. #130

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    RE: HOBBYKING - NEVER AGAIN!!!!!!!!


    ORIGINAL: Seamus OLeprosy


    ORIGINAL: VictoriaP

    What amazes me is that so many Local Hobby Shops are going to the wall (My local one went pop about 2 months ago) yet Hobby King is expanding like billy oh. It makes me thing that they must have it sussed and the LHS 's havn't got any idea how to keep in business.

    All I can say is HK are doing somthing right and I love them
    There are a couple of reasons
    LHS inevitable have to operate through hobby distributors who take a massive margin
    To pay the high rates, insurance rents etc they need to put at least 50% margins on items giving at least 75% spread between both
    How they have competition from online shops like Tower who maintain the high distributor margins but cut out the retail margin and the likes of HK who operate on high volumeΒ* and low margins.
    My LHS wasnt that local about 60miles or put it another way 3 gallons/13.3ltrs of petrol for a round trip, I can get four servos delivered from HK for the price of 1.5ltrs of petrol.
    I can remember 25 years ago when a mini servo cost a days wages now I can buy one for 15minutes work


    I hear you Seamus regarding the markup but that is necessary to pay the bills. Just because Hobby King is less expensive doesn't mean they are poor. In fact, I would be willing to bet you that they make more on each and every transaction than a brick and morter hobby shop does. Why? Simple, they are a wholesale distributor with no middle man and no customer service or serious warranty service. They could more easily afford to replace defective stuff than the LHS can but they choose not to out of greed.

    You keep telling everyone how good their customer service is, perhaps you should have a look at this.

    http://www.reddit.com/r/radiocontrol...ma_from_an_ex/
    RC Aircraft/ Three Laws Safe.

  6. #131
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    RE: HOBBYKING - NEVER AGAIN!!!!!!!!


    ORIGINAL: combatpigg

    Consider what standard any merchant should be held to and what level of service they should be expected to give.

    I sure don't see very many posts about unfair / substandard service given by Tower Hobbies, Castle Creations, Fox Mfg, Jett Engineering or SIG...and these companies handle 1000's of transactions over the years knowing that this is a fickle business and that maintaining a good reputation is crucial to their success.

    Yes, I agree there should be a standard of service.. but I am happy to forego a level of service knowing I am getting a bargain...

    Every plane and helicopter I bought from HK has been perfect.. But even if 1 in 3 was completely broken and unusable on arrival, I would still consider myself way in front instead of paying 4 times the price in a Hobby Shop..

    or 30 times the price in some cases... Yes, I really did get a Helicopter for $10 from Hobbyking and Yes it is still flying pefectly 2 years and 700 flights later...

    ..... frakkin cylons...

  7. #132
    Seamus OLeprosy's Avatar
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    RE: HOBBYKING - NEVER AGAIN!!!!!!!!


    ORIGINAL: topspin


    ORIGINAL: Seamus OLeprosy


    ORIGINAL: VictoriaP

    What amazes me is that so many Local Hobby Shops are going to the wall (My local one went pop about 2 months ago) yet Hobby King is expanding like billy oh. It makes me thing that they must have it sussed and the LHS 's havn't got any idea how to keep in business.

    All I can say is HK are doing somthing right and I love them
    There are a couple of reasons
    LHS inevitable have to operate through hobby distributors who take a massive margin
    To pay the high rates, insurance rents etc they need to put at least 50% margins on items giving at least 75% spread between both
    How they have competition from online shops like Tower who maintain the high distributor margins but cut out the retail margin and the likes of HK who operate on high volume and low margins.
    My LHS wasnt that local about 60miles or put it another way 3 gallons/13.3ltrs of petrol for a round trip, I can get four servos delivered from HK for the price of 1.5ltrs of petrol.
    I can remember 25 years ago when a mini servo cost a days wages now I can buy one for 15minutes work


    I hear you Seamus regarding the markup but that is necessary to pay the bills. Just because Hobby King is less expensive doesn't mean they are poor. In fact, I would be willing to bet you that they make more on each and every transaction than a brick and morter hobby shop does. Why? Simple, they are a wholesale distributor with no middle man and no customer service or serious warranty service. They could more easily afford to replace defective stuff than the LHS can but they choose not to out of greed.

    You keep telling everyone how good their customer service is, perhaps you should have a look at this.

    http://www.reddit.com/r/radiocontrol...ma_from_an_ex/
    As long as they dont make me poor
    My son can go to college and I can have a some hobbies
    In the same way I didnt pay $2200 for my Canon lens from a camera shop I pay $1345 online I dont pay a hobby shop £180 for a ASP 120 I pay HK £120 and thats from the UK warehouse with no additional taxes to pay.
    I said it several times before GIVEMEAPLACEWITHBETTERPRICES/DELIVERYCHARGESANDIWILLBUYFROMTHEM. I dont give a dam where I buy once I get the best price.
    As for customer service its slow and unwieldy but it has worked for me because I am patient and can read instructions


  8. #133
    LGM Graphix's Avatar
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    RE: HOBBYKING - NEVER AGAIN!!!!!!!!

    Sadly, what still seems to be lost in all of the Hobby King Hoopla, is that we as society are encouraging poor customer service if the price is low. But what happens when all of the LHS's are gone, nobody has inventory locally for the simple things like glue, or any of the other things that you don't think about that you might need immediately to go flying tomorrow? How long will it be before China produces a copy of a Porsche and sells it for only $5000? Will this same society buy those cars and make comments like "Yeah, I'm laid up in the hospital now with tubes running out of me because my copy car had an axel break, who knew plastic wouldn't work, but it's ok because it was only 1/20th the cost of a real porsche.

    Part of the problem with the inexpensive HK stuff, is people are willing to say "yes, I know it won't last, or it might show up broken, but it was cheap" and they are happy to have 20 airplanes today instead of having 2 or 3 really nice ones that always work, that you can rely on, like it used to be. I've been in this hobby 30+ years and it amazes me each time I see people go flying with an entire fleet of small electric airplanes, sure, they look different, but how many really fly different enough to be worth dragging all of them out?

    I don't know, I ordered once from HK and the 2 batteries I bought were both DOA. That is a 100% failure rate for me. Doesn't mean it is for everyone, or even half of their customers, but for this one customer it was enough to make me realize that, sure, the local hobby shop might cost more, in the case of these batteries the local hobby shop had the exact same turnigy batteries and they were about 40% more than I paid for the ones from HK with the shipping, but had I bought them from the LHS, I could have brought them back and gotten replacement ones. Sure, HK said they'd exchange them, but the return shipping was just a little MORE than the original purchase price meaning my "good deal" would have cost more than the LHS. (I was never given an option of sending a picture, this was a few years ago, they required me to return the batteries).

    I'm not stating that to be a HK basher, but to show that there comes a time when we need to think more long term about our hobby, think about the people locally who TRY to support our hobby. Nobody gets rich owning a hobby store, this thread is proof enough of that, modellers are some of the cheapest SOB's in the world.

    But when you go to buy your next airplane, your next battery, whatever, consider that when the LHS closes because they simply get no modeller support anymore, you won't even be able to buy glue to fix your airplane when it shows up damaged in the box, or after you crash it.

    It is just my opinion, so take it for what you will, but for any of you that work, that earn a paycheck, more importantly, that might own a business, how does it make you feel when you lose out on work to asia, or even take asia out of the equation, how do you feel when you've invested large in your job/company, and know you do quality work, but you lose out on jobs because of the backyard guy doing mediocre work, under the table, offering to do jobs for less than your cost. Stings doesn't it, well, when you buy stuff from HK, that is what you're doing to the LHS.
    remember when people actually BUILT their airplanes?

  9. #134
    marc s's Avatar
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    RE: HOBBYKING - NEVER AGAIN!!!!!!!!

    But even if 1 in 3 was completely broken and unusable on arrival, I would still consider myself way in front
    I want to make one thing clear here, the issue around HK being cheap/affordable is irrelevant, whatever the goods, whatever the price, they should all arrive undamaged and useable - the above statement should not be 'the accepted way' just coz the gear is cheap. My kit was damaged, not usable and all I want is a replacement provided in a reasonable time frame - 5 months and counting IS NOT in my eyes acceptable. HK make things harder by not having a way to contact and actually speak to someone in customer services and the email process they use simply does not deliver answers and responses in a timely manner.

    marcs

  10. #135
    marc s's Avatar
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    RE: HOBBYKING - NEVER AGAIN!!!!!!!!

    it has worked for me because I am patient and can read instructions
    Seamus just PM's you on this comment.

    marcs

  11. #136
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    RE: HOBBYKING - NEVER AGAIN!!!!!!!!

    ORIGINAL: LGM Graphix

    Sadly, what still seems to be lost in all of the Hobby King Hoopla, is that we as society are encouraging poor customer service if the price is low. But what happens when all of the LHS's are gone, nobody has inventory locally for the simple things like glue, or any of the other things that you don't think about that you might need immediately to go flying tomorrow? How long will it be before China produces a copy of a Porsche and sells it for only $5000? Will this same society buy those cars and make comments like ''Yeah, I'm laid up in the hospital now with tubes running out of me because my copy car had an axel break, who knew plastic wouldn't work, but it's ok because it was only 1/20th the cost of a real porsche.

    Part of the problem with the inexpensive HK stuff, is people are willing to say ''yes, I know it won't last, or it might show up broken, but it was cheap'' and they are happy to have 20 airplanes today instead of having 2 or 3 really nice ones that always work, that you can rely on, like it used to be. I've been in this hobby 30+ years and it amazes me each time I see people go flying with an entire fleet of small electric airplanes, sure, they look different, but how many really fly different enough to be worth dragging all of them out?

    I don't know, I ordered once from HK and the 2 batteries I bought were both DOA. That is a 100% failure rate for me. Doesn't mean it is for everyone, or even half of their customers, but for this one customer it was enough to make me realize that, sure, the local hobby shop might cost more, in the case of these batteries the local hobby shop had the exact same turnigy batteries and they were about 40% more than I paid for the ones from HK with the shipping, but had I bought them from the LHS, I could have brought them back and gotten replacement ones. Sure, HK said they'd exchange them, but the return shipping was just a little MORE than the original purchase price meaning my ''good deal'' would have cost more than the LHS. (I was never given an option of sending a picture, this was a few years ago, they required me to return the batteries).

    I'm not stating that to be a HK basher, but to show that there comes a time when we need to think more long term about our hobby, think about the people locally who TRY to support our hobby. Nobody gets rich owning a hobby store, this thread is proof enough of that, modellers are some of the cheapest SOB's in the world.

    But when you go to buy your next airplane, your next battery, whatever, consider that when the LHS closes because they simply get no modeller support anymore, you won't even be able to buy glue to fix your airplane when it shows up damaged in the box, or after you crash it.

    It is just my opinion, so take it for what you will, but for any of you that work, that earn a paycheck, more importantly, that might own a business, how does it make you feel when you lose out on work to asia, or even take asia out of the equation, how do you feel when you've invested large in your job/company, and know you do quality work, but you lose out on jobs because of the backyard guy doing mediocre work, under the table, offering to do jobs for less than your cost. Stings doesn't it, well, when you buy stuff from HK, that is what you're doing to the LHS.
    I hear what your saying but I buy my glue (Gorilla or Epoxy) from Home Depot/Rona. I get my Hysol from Dreamworks because no LHS carry's it. I have lost track of the amount of times I've gone to the LHS and they can't help. Please don't blame me for buying online when 99 percent of those shops either don't stock what I need and use, or have to order it in. I can do that myself without wasting the gas to be constantly dissapointed. That's how I found HK in the first place. Looking for parts that the LHS simply never bothered to bring in.

    Maybe in other parts of the world local hobby shops have considerable stock but around here...it's always very hard to find what I need. In Canada we do not exactly have the largest selection of online dealers either which makes it worse. I don't want to pay twice the shipping when I can simply get everything from one place.

  12. #137
    Pepperpete's Avatar
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    RE: HOBBYKING - NEVER AGAIN!!!!!!!!

    Double Post Please delete.

  13. #138

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    RE: HOBBYKING - NEVER AGAIN!!!!!!!!

    I have been on both sides of this issue as a business owner and also a end buyer. I have tried to support my local hobby shops, but it has been very difficult. I am like you in that they rarely if ever stock anything I use except maybe glues and things like that which may be double or even triple in price. It is a tough call and gas is expensive to drive all the way to a hobby shop to come back empty handed.

  14. #139

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    RE: HOBBYKING - NEVER AGAIN!!!!!!!!

    Marc - Start a thread on the Order Support forum. Better than email ping pong.

    http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/f...pics.asp?FID=5

  15. #140
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    RE: HOBBYKING - NEVER AGAIN!!!!!!!!

    Dom, I'm getting it sorted as a friend who travels to the HK depot is going to help me resolve - interesting that one click on the link you provided immediately says 'denied access' - gotta love em..........

    marcs

  16. #141

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    RE: HOBBYKING - NEVER AGAIN!!!!!!!!


    ORIGINAL: LGM Graphix

    Sadly, what still seems ...
    I fly indoor electrics once a month at a local field house. I have been flying with a beginner/intermediate who learned to fly at our events and has only flown electrics. He now cuts his own designs out of depron. HE HAS NEVER BEEN TO A LOCAL HOBBY SHOP! He orders EVERYTHING online and doesn't blink.

    Kurt

  17. #142

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    RE: HOBBYKING - NEVER AGAIN!!!!!!!!

    Went to HK UK tday and met and talked to Scot for about 40 mins very interesting it was too. Picked up my boat and excellent it is to

  18. #143
    Seamus OLeprosy's Avatar
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    RE: HOBBYKING - NEVER AGAIN!!!!!!!!


    ORIGINAL: marc s

    it has worked for me because I am patient and can read instructions
    Seamus just PM's you on this comment.

    marcs
    PM replied to,
    A little perplexed at to why you challenged me as you were not included in any of the quotes.
    And in case any of the other contributors are offended I was not implying any of you can not read.
    It is me who pedantically reads, term and conditions and email instructions.


  19. #144
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    RE: HOBBYKING - NEVER AGAIN!!!!!!!!

    Hobby shops have been going out of business since the beginning of the demise of kit building so that's nothing new. In my experience, the internet has only helped hobby shops because more people can afford to enter the hobby. Many people also make uneducated purchases on the internet, then take them into the local hobby shop for help or replacement parts. In the past few years, Hobby King has taken about 95% of the battery business, which is good because profit margins were already low and technical support/replacement/liability costs were very high. We actually lost more money selling batteries in our hobby shop than we ever made on them. Most of all, it's nice not to have to explain about charging, storage, voltage, amps, etc to everyone. If they burn up a battery, esc or motor, it's only a few dollars down the drain and they usually buy a replacement from us after they have realized and corrected their mistakes.

    People always ask us why we don't stock Hobby King parts and I have to tell them that we are a service oriented business. If we sold lower quality or untested products, we would have to replace most of them for free without reimbursement from the manufacturer. We sell products from Horizon/Great Planes because the return rate is much lower and if there ever is a problem, we can replace it to our customer immediately and not be liable for any costs. Sure the profit margin is a lot lower but integrity and honesty is worth a lot in this business.

    I thank Hobby King everyday for taking most of the high maintenance customers because, as a reputable hobby shop, I simply can't afford to provide the type of products they are looking for anyway. At least they stay in the hobby and buy a few props or connectors here and there.

  20. #145
    marc s's Avatar
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    RE: HOBBYKING - NEVER AGAIN!!!!!!!!

    Good Seamus as I have done exactly as the HK customer services department asked for in the first instance, evidence in pictures plus other detail, so they have ALL they requested to resolve this case for over 5 months plus.

    I wished the HK UK depot was nearer to me as I would be at the counter tomorrow [] and probably have it sorted.

    marcs

  21. #146

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    RE: HOBBYKING - NEVER AGAIN!!!!!!!!

    ORIGINAL: Seamus OLeprosy


    ORIGINAL: marc s

    it has worked for me because I am patient and can read instructions
    Seamus just PM's you on this comment.

    marcs
    PM replied to,
    A little perplexed at to why you challenged me as you were not included in any of the quotes.
    And in case any of the other contributors are offended I was not implying any of you can not read.
    It is me who pedantically reads, term and conditions and email instructions.

    I just want to know what you'll be spending your hundred bucks on this month, Dathi?
    RC Aircraft/ Three Laws Safe.

  22. #147
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    RE: HOBBYKING - NEVER AGAIN!!!!!!!!


    ORIGINAL: BaldEagel


    ORIGINAL: flyoz

    Also by way of example re value: they have a trainer which is a virtual clone of a very well known brand but which is better built and with far better fittings than the name brand.
    Price? $74 against $229
    Is that a turbine trainer, if so please post a link.

    Mike

    No mate its a 40 size Glow / ep high wing trainer Balsa
    New Fly Species-Helicoptera

  23. #148

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    RE: HOBBYKING - NEVER AGAIN!!!!!!!!


    ORIGINAL:
    Also by way of example re value: they have a trainer which is a virtual clone of a very well known brand but which is better built and with far better fittings than the name brand.
    Price? $74 against $229
    This is real simple. Kindly show me the evidence of your claim so that I may believe.

    Without being specifric as to what planes these are and what hardware they use, your unproved, anecdotal, subjective claim is just that. It needs proof to have validity. It lacks that when hding behind a wall of anonimity.

  24. #149
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    RE: HOBBYKING - NEVER AGAIN!!!!!!!!

    ORIGINAL: topspin


    ORIGINAL: Seamus OLeprosy


    ORIGINAL: VictoriaP

    What amazes me is that so many Local Hobby Shops are going to the wall (My local one went pop about 2 months ago) yet Hobby King is expanding like billy oh. It makes me thing that they must have it sussed and the LHS 's havn't got any idea how to keep in business.

    All I can say is HK are doing somthing right and I love them
    There are a couple of reasons
    LHS inevitable have to operate through hobby distributors who take a massive margin
    To pay the high rates, insurance rents etc they need to put at least 50% margins on items giving at least 75% spread between both
    How they have competition from online shops like Tower who maintain the high distributor margins but cut out the retail margin and the likes of HK who operate on high volumeΒ* and low margins.
    My LHS wasnt that local about 60miles or put it another way 3 gallons/13.3ltrs of petrol for a round trip, I can get four servos delivered from HK for the price of 1.5ltrs of petrol.
    I can remember 25 years ago when a mini servo cost a days wages now I can buy one for 15minutes work


    I hear you Seamus regarding the markup but that is necessary to pay the bills. Just because Hobby King is less expensive doesn't mean they are poor. In fact, I would be willing to bet you that they make more on each and every transaction than a brick and morter hobby shop does. Why? Simple, they are a wholesale distributor with no middle man and no customer service or serious warranty service. They could more easily afford to replace defective stuff than the LHS can but they choose not to out of greed.

    You keep telling everyone how good their customer service is, perhaps you should have a look at this.

    http://www.reddit.com/r/radiocontrol...ma_from_an_ex/
    You Know i think you guys have hit the nail on the head. Maybe its time to remove the Wholesaler?

    Any of these shops can buy from (or should I say resell for) Hobbyking by the way. They are geared to go through resellers .


    Wombat sounds like a great retailer by the way. But you dont often get one thats keen, connected and all that knowledgeable anymore.
    The demise of Kit building is probably the worst hit for the hobby for sure. Yet ARFs is probably one of the best things for RC. what a dilemma
    New Fly Species-Helicoptera

  25. #150

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    RE: HOBBYKING - NEVER AGAIN!!!!!!!!

    hi all,
    so im not gonna add quotes here, but it has been mentioned that people want examples of how you LHS's selling well known products are worse than what HK can offer, i have had 3 novak brushless systems from my LHS , they have all failed quite quickly , i have bought more than 20 brushless systems from HK , turnigy and HK own brand and own another 20 or so from other hong kong based shops , they are all still working perfectly after more than a year of being run in vile conditions , one of the HK branded systems didnt work when it arrived , a quick online chat with customer services and it was on its way back, they sent a new one to me and it was fine , bought a bundle of orange receivers from HK at a sixth of the cost of the spektrum sr3100 and they all work perfectly !
    the Novaks and the LHS? well they were all returned to the uk distributor as the LHS just looked at me and said "well these things happen "! distributor sent them back to me saying it was misuse that caused the failure , they had all been used well within specs and indoors ! misuse??
    ordered a couple of tamiya kits from my LHS , called them each month for six months and was told , "sorry we are waiting for the uk distributor to get them in stock" ,so i called the distributor and was told " they are in stock and have never been out of stock since they were released"!
    i went to a hong kong hobby store on line (not hobbyking) and got the kits for half the uk price inc shipping and they were here within a fortnight !
    so there are a few examples of how the LHS can suck, and these experiences of my LHS are now a common tale thats repeated by many, the LHS now sells kites !
    if you have a great LHS and the money to accomodate their massive prices and huge profits then i am delighted for you, (when did you last see an LHS owner that didnt drive a very expensive car or truck??)
    but for me and everyone within a hundred miles of me and many others, hk and all the other hong kong based shops are superb, great value and have only ever given truly exeptional service , for those hobby shops that go online and slate them , you are only damaging yourselves , dont moan about them ,try and do as good as them and dont treat your customers like fools as we the customers who made you can easily break you by turning our backs on you for ever!
    best of luck all and happy RC'ing


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