RC Jets Discuss RC jets in this forum plus rc turbines and ducted fan power systems

Nitro ducted fans? Any left out there?

Reply
Old 11-03-2012, 03:21 PM
  #51
rcaircraftnut
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 50
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Nitro ducted fans? Any left out there?


Quote:
ORIGINAL: YellowAircraft

Dr Honda,

I hear you and I know just what you're talking about. Seen plenty of DF jets barely clear the departure end then be at near-stall until halfway through the flight. I've also seen a Y/A Starfire takeoff from its belly (that one had a BVM .96 and Viofan) and another take off with no wheels on the main struts (that one was OS .91), so they both had PLENTY of power. That was a 200mph jet on a stock DF setup. Now that I think of it, I really miss those days!
I think it comes down to setup and tuning ability. I can't count how many times I personally have Ben able to go retune someones engine and completely change their opinion of that engine. Most guys just think they know what they are doing and they don't. How many times should you need to adjust an engine in a day? If the weather didn't change from 40° when you tuned it to 100° now it probably is fine. Yet I see guys at every field Ive been at that retune at the beginning of every flight. You watch, there is a guy at your club I bet who every time starts it up, goes to the flight line, straddles the tail, then flat stick and reach for the HSN. If it ran good the flight before why must he retune it yet again? IDK but I've seen it hundreds of times. Then when it flames out of won't clear the end of the patch he blames the engine design. Learn how to set it correctly then, and this is key, If nothing changes LEAVE IT ALONE!
rcaircraftnut is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2012, 03:24 PM
  #52
Tampaflyer
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: tampa, FL
Posts: 224
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Nitro ducted fans? Any left out there?

do what you love. It is nice to make some noise too.

the regal is a gentler flyer,, and any f-4 you have to respect. Look great in the air.. but if you think you have it figured out. .it reminds you who's in charge

i too have a george miller F-4 in the box that will build someday. Had a nitro one in Colorado.. would outrun a Topgun f-15.. loved that plane.

my regal eagle nose let go on a low fly-by.. and it folded it up and flew over the hill to boot. a good flyer , but the top gun f-15 are nicer


the other is a BUSA Enforcer.. byron fan modified and retracts.. slow too really fast. and easy to work on. If they ever ARFon i would do it agian.

also alot of people modify the Falcon 120 to D/F, as i did here with another byron setup.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Qo41399.jpg
Views:	13
Size:	73.8 KB
ID:	1817328   Click image for larger version

Name:	Ez83807.jpg
Views:	17
Size:	143.3 KB
ID:	1817329   Click image for larger version

Name:	Pm34736.jpg
Views:	14
Size:	87.3 KB
ID:	1817330   Click image for larger version

Name:	Bz77113.jpg
Views:	16
Size:	56.2 KB
ID:	1817331  
Tampaflyer is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2012, 03:33 PM
  #53
rcaircraftnut
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 50
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Nitro ducted fans? Any left out there?


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Dr Honda

I've read though this again... and I don't think anyone has said that ICDF was ''Slow and boring''. But... with the exception of a few models... they were under-powered. (as far as thrust pressure)

I grew up in SoCal... and got to see a lot of the stuff as it was coming out. I flew Mile Square, Sepulveda, Whittier Narrows... and was going up to Rabbit and El Mirage back in the 80's and early 90's.

In all of my years of flying RC... I never once saw an ICDF that could get off a paved runway in a reasonable amount of time. Sure... once they got up, made a turn, and put the nose down... they would build speed. AND... they all landed ''Heavy''. AND... for the price tag of the high output engines, and fans... never once did I think.... ''I need one of them!!''

I didn't care about ''Jets'' until I got my first turbine. AND... to me... the actual turbine is the draw to this end of the hobby, and not the model.


Personally... I'd be perfectly happy with a turbine on a ''Big Stick''.
Don't get me wrong I love the sound of a turbine, the smell not so much. They are cool no doubt. But I love fighter jets and can't afford turbines. I know HK is developing a turbine but I don't think I won't to be the guy who tries it first. lol. For me it's all the love of flying. It's my escape from reality. My biggest stress reliever. I don't want or need to have the stress of possibly crashing something I put thousands of dollars and a year of my free time building into. I want to go have fun and if I crash I want to be able to laugh about it. That's why I love my 3D profiles so much. Cheap, durable, and easy to repair. I do love the jets though and have to do it at least once. If it turns out that I end up not liking them and I sell them off so be it. I will have at least done it and be able to have that experience. I do value the input of others wisdom but I have only a fixed hobby budget and turbines just aren't a viable option.
rcaircraftnut is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2012, 03:39 PM
  #54
rcaircraftnut
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 50
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Nitro ducted fans? Any left out there?

Sorry I said F4 when I meant A-4. Fixed the post lol. I do want an F-4 but got a package deal with an A-4 so that is what I will be starting with.
rcaircraftnut is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2012, 03:41 PM
  #55
rcaircraftnut
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 50
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Nitro ducted fans? Any left out there?

May end up building the Regal Eagle for my little brother as a birthday gift. Will give him the kit and the fan/engine setup then help him build it. Which means I build while he helps lol.
rcaircraftnut is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2012, 03:44 PM
  #56
Ram-bro
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Bennington, NE
Posts: 5,714
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Nitro ducted fans? Any left out there?

My D/F setups arent of the pure speed setup. My fans are Byron and Dynamax in scale setups. Usually the adjustments that I may think are needed are done with the remote needle valve or inflight mixture control. In one of the other threads showing favorite jet vids, you will see my twin Byron F15 when it belonged to the Cloud Dancers. They dont look underpowered there and look impressive in the air. electic setups are fine but you have thee same issues there as youdo with turbines....cost and risk and those are the reasons I havent made a full conversion over to turbines
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Tq48746.jpg
Views:	14
Size:	69.3 KB
ID:	1817340   Click image for larger version

Name:	Kf12370.jpg
Views:	11
Size:	17.1 KB
ID:	1817341   Click image for larger version

Name:	Mr42120.jpg
Views:	11
Size:	69.1 KB
ID:	1817342  
Ram-bro is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2012, 03:49 PM
  #57
rcaircraftnut
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 50
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Nitro ducted fans? Any left out there?


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Ram-bro

My D/F setups arent of the pure speed setup. My fans are Byron and Dynamax in scale setups. Usually the adjustments that I may think are needed are done with the remote needle valve or inflight mixture control. In one of the other threads showing favorite jet vids, you will see my twin Byron F15 when it belonged to the Cloud Dancers. They dont look underpowered there and look impressive in the air. electic setups are fine but you have thee same issues there as youdo with turbines....cost and risk and those are the reasons I havent made a full conversion over to turbines
I wasn't saying anyone in particular just that this is what I have seen at many places across the country. I have been to fields is many states as I take planes with me in the rig while I am on the road.
rcaircraftnut is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2012, 03:51 PM
  #58
rcaircraftnut
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 50
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Nitro ducted fans? Any left out there?

Now, I know how engines work and how to tune them. However the in flight mixture control is a new thing I have yet to use. Any info will be helpful. I am not the guy who thinks just cuz he knows about one setup he knows about them all. I am always looking for more knowledge.
rcaircraftnut is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2012, 04:05 PM
  #59
Ram-bro
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Bennington, NE
Posts: 5,714
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Nitro ducted fans? Any left out there?

my comment wasnt directed at you, just explains that I am not one tryiing to eekout every ounce of power from a setup.....at the risk of the motor and plane. The remote needle valve is the setup where you have a channel setup on your needle valve.It is there for inflight adjustments when an engine starts to lean out or go rich which does happen occasionally. In my previous post you see my Top Gun Mig 29, Byron t33 and the Avonds F15 which I no longer own, Couldnt find pics of my Byron F15, JHH Panther or a enforcer......that I would sell if anyone is interested
Ram-bro is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2012, 04:21 PM
  #60
rcaircraftnut
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 50
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Nitro ducted fans? Any left out there?

I understand what it is, just more interested in how it is setup. How it works. I don't see how it can make it richer if the needle on the carb is still used. Having a bit of trouble wrapping my head round it. lol.
rcaircraftnut is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2012, 05:27 PM
  #61
Tampaflyer
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: tampa, FL
Posts: 224
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Nitro ducted fans? Any left out there?

the remote is set up:

move tx to full lean... start engine... lean it out as far as you dare. then from that point on it can richen any time you want.

what most do is: start.. go full lean for take off... take off and richen up after you are flying. OR WHEN EVER THE SMOKE GOES AWAY.. no smoke(exhust) no lubrication.. no motor soon after.

you can see the "smoke" in this vid

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nG4oGldCnjI[/youtube]
Tampaflyer is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2012, 06:07 PM
  #62
rcaircraftnut
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 50
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Nitro ducted fans? Any left out there?

I still don't understand how if the needle on the engine is set to a lean setting that a remote needle can richen it up. Only a finite amount of fuel can pass through the carb needle on the engine. I can see how if you set it rich the remote could lean it by restricting fuel flow but not the other way round. Now do you understand my question better?
rcaircraftnut is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2012, 06:14 PM
  #63
Tampaflyer
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: tampa, FL
Posts: 224
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Nitro ducted fans? Any left out there?

the  carb only has a nipple and the remote is external( BVM/  CJ) ).. or you set the neddle to full lean then attach the control arm(os remote). or rossi the arm is at the base of the needle.

the BVM / Century jet are the nicest. the allow the most movement.

http://www.bvmjets.com/Pages/mixcont.htm

http://www.google.com/imgres?hl=en&s...0&tx=104&ty=60

Tampaflyer is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2012, 06:22 PM
  #64
rcaircraftnut
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 50
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Nitro ducted fans? Any left out there?

Ok so if you are using in flight mixture control you have no needle in the carb at all. Basically it is a remote needle with a servo hooked up to it. Do I have it rite now? lol.
rcaircraftnut is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2012, 07:45 PM
  #65
rcaircraftnut
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 50
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Nitro ducted fans? Any left out there?

I have tried the search feature and no love there. Has anyone done a build thread on the Y/A A-4? I just made a deal for one and would like to see zackly what I'm up against lol. If there isn't one, then I guess I will have to do one huh?
rcaircraftnut is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2012, 08:01 PM
  #66
jlmaviation
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Clinton Township, MI
Posts: 269
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Nitro ducted fans? Any left out there?

I have a Yellow F-16 that still has a OS91/Dynamax in it. It is a blast to fly. Does not have flaps and does not need them slows down to a crawl. I fly off of grass and in 150 feet I have it airborne. I highly recommend the Yellow F-16.
jlmaviation is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2012, 08:20 PM
  #67
rcaircraftnut
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 50
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Nitro ducted fans? Any left out there?

Looking at one. Depending on what the member wants for it I may buy it. Looks like a very nice kit.
rcaircraftnut is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2012, 04:55 AM
  #68
Dr Honda
 
Dr Honda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Latrobe, PA
Posts: 2,269
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Nitro ducted fans? Any left out there?

Quote:
ORIGINAL: rcaircraftnut



Don't get me wrong I love the sound of a turbine, the smell not so much. They are cool no doubt. But I love fighter jets and can't afford turbines. .............................. I do value the input of others wisdom but I have only a fixed hobby budget and turbines just aren't a viable option.

OK. at least I can see where you are coming from... and I'm in the same boat. I can't afford them either. (lol) In the last couple years... I've sold a bunch of hobby stuff I wasn't using... I've traded things... and I've kept my eyes on the used market. So... if you do things right... you can have a flying Turbine relativity cheap. With the exception of my transmitter... both models below were cheap. My Falcon was done for about $1300~$1400, and my T-45 was done for just under $1600.


Actually.... if you do it right... you could have a Falcon 120 flying for under $1k. I have an old Air start AMT180 on it... and it's a GREAT engine. I paid $900 for it... but I see them go for $600~$700 all the time, because people don't want to deal with air start.

Dr Honda is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2012, 05:08 AM
  #69
rcaircraftnut
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 50
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Nitro ducted fans? Any left out there?

That is still quite spendy but much closer to my budget. If one comes available and I have the cash at the time, I wouldn't be opposed to going with a turbine. I just don't ever seem to have the cash lol.
rcaircraftnut is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2012, 04:01 PM
  #70
drac1
 
drac1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Romaine, Tasmania, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 1,388
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Nitro ducted fans? Any left out there?


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Dr Honda

I've read though this again... and I don't think anyone has said that ICDF was ''Slow and boring''. But... with the exception of a few models... they were under-powered. (as far as thrust pressure)

I grew up in SoCal... and got to see a lot of the stuff as it was coming out. I flew Mile Square, Sepulveda, Whittier Narrows... and was going up to Rabbit and El Mirage back in the 80's and early 90's.

In all of my years of flying RC... I never once saw an ICDF that could get off a paved runway in a reasonable amount of time. Sure... once they got up, made a turn, and put the nose down... they would build speed. AND... they all landed ''Heavy''. AND... for the price tag of the high output engines, and fans... never once did I think.... ''I need one of them!!''

I didn't care about ''Jets'' until I got my first turbine. AND... to me... the actual turbine is the draw to this end of the hobby, and not the model.


Personally... I'd be perfectly happy with a turbine on a ''Big Stick''.
Years ago i had a Scorpion with OS 91 and Ramtech. Flew off a short grass strip and never had any problems taking off or landing. It had plenty of power for climb out.
drac1 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2012, 04:32 PM
  #71
drac1
 
drac1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Romaine, Tasmania, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 1,388
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Nitro ducted fans? Any left out there?

Quote:
ORIGINAL: rcaircraftnut

Ok so if you are using in flight mixture control you have no needle in the carb at all. Basically it is a remote needle with a servo hooked up to it. Do I have it rite now? lol.
You don't have to have a remote needle. You can set up in flight mixture on the needle in the carb, but in the case of a ducted fan it may be easier to have the remote needle.
If the needle is set at the optimum setting, then the arm can be set so that you have adjustment to go lean or rich. The amount of adjustment depends on how long/short the servo and needle arm is. Same as setting up control surface linkages.
Run the engine as rich as possible without the engine losing performance. Just remember it will lean off slightly once in the air as with any other ic engine.

I haven't had a ducted fan model for many, many years and am thinking about building one myself. I have a used OS 91 and Ramtech as well as a brand new OS 91 and new Ramtech. I have plans for a scratch built F-18, but the Yellow Aircraft kits look pretty reasonably priced as well.

Good luck with your builds.
drac1 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2012, 07:44 PM
  #72
Shaun Evans
 
Shaun Evans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 7,006
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Nitro ducted fans? Any left out there?

Rcaircraftnut,

Which version of out A-4 are you looking at? Same question for the F-16.
Shaun Evans is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2012, 09:28 PM
  #73
rcaircraftnut
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 50
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Nitro ducted fans? Any left out there?

Not sure I have asked this question just waiting on answers. Will let you know.
rcaircraftnut is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2012, 03:40 AM
  #74
rcaircraftnut
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 50
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Nitro ducted fans? Any left out there?

I am getting ready to go home hopefully next week and clear out the rig of my hoard of 11 airframes to make room to go pick up the jets I am buying. Thanks to this that have helped with advise as well those who have given me some really great deals. Now I just need to put a shop together again lol. Have to decide if I will build the regal eagle or the y/a scooter first. Leaning towards the eagle at the moment so I can build mine at the same time as I am helping my little brother build his. His xmas and b'day together this year. Kit with engine and fan. I know I am an awesome older brother. lol.
rcaircraftnut is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2012, 07:10 AM
  #75
JackD
 
JackD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Berkeley, CA
Posts: 700
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Nitro ducted fans? Any left out there?


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Dr Honda

.

In all of my years of flying RC... I never once saw an ICDF that could get off a paved runway in a reasonable amount of time. Sure... once they got up, made a turn, and put the nose down... they would build speed. AND... they all landed ''Heavy''. AND... for the price tag of the high output engines, and fans... never once did I think.... ''I need one of them!!''

You then never got a chance to see any of the BVM fleet. Aggressor and Vipers were doing 200+ mph. Mavericks where in the 180+ range. My dad's twin BVM phantom was clocked at 190+ the same weekend Garland Hamilton was clocked doing 249. And JMP's starfire was just almost as fast as the BVM stuff

I understand ICDF was not as easy as a turbine. You needed to understand what you were doing (which by the way, was really really really fun and challenging), so they were definitely not for everyone.
But what is not true are the myths that remained after they were basically gone: They were super powerful, they were really fast, they were super fun, and believe it or not, if you knew what you were doing, had a remote needle valve that you knew how to operate, and used quality fuel, they were almost as reliable as turbines.

JackD is offline  
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 09:12 AM.