Go Back  RCU Forums > RC Airplanes > RC Jets
Reload this Page >

Which Aeroplane Gyros are best?

Notices
RC Jets Discuss RC jets in this forum plus rc turbines and ducted fan power systems

Which Aeroplane Gyros are best?

Old 06-14-2011, 07:30 AM
  #1  
Steve Moore
Thread Starter
 
Steve Moore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Bristol, , UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 92
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Which Aeroplane Gyros are best?

I am thinking of putting Aileron Gyros on a Jet (Thanks to Geoff White for putting the idea in my head)

Which is a good reliable Gyro? I know Geoff uses a Futaba which I assume is the GYA351?? I am using a AR9200 Evolution powerbox/RX so I have two outputs for aileron from the powerbox unit so as far as I can tell this wouldnt work with the futaba 351 Gyro as it has one aileron input/output and one flap input/output, I really dont want to y lead the JR8711 aileron servos as I want to keep them in their respective individual ports. Do you have any suggestions to a small inline gyro such as Turnigy T-380 gyro (is this gyro not upto the job?) or would it be completely the wrong thing to put two gyros in the model, one on each aileron?

Any feedback is great, not used gyros in fixed wing before so it's new to me


Thanks in advance
Old 06-14-2011, 07:43 AM
  #2  
siclick33
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: York, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 3,743
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: Which Aeroplane Gyros are best?

ACT gyros are usually top of the recommendation list but I haven't used them myself.

http://www.acteurope.de/html/fuzzy_smm_jet.html
Old 06-14-2011, 08:08 AM
  #3  
Stobe777
My Feedback: (1)
 
Stobe777's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: vantaa, FINLAND
Posts: 430
Received 4 Likes on 3 Posts
Default RE: Which Aeroplane Gyros are best?

Happy with the GYA 351 in a Fei Bao MiG-21.
TP.
Old 06-14-2011, 08:30 AM
  #4  
Dave Wilshere
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Watford, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 13,083
Received 727 Likes on 523 Posts
Default RE: Which Aeroplane Gyros are best?

ACT. twin in and out, but you will need a control channel

Dave
Old 06-14-2011, 10:23 AM
  #5  
InboundLZ
My Feedback: (10)
 
InboundLZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 1,944
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Which Aeroplane Gyros are best?

I use a GY401 on yaw in my flash...more of a experiment than anything...

I know of atleast one person that uses a gyro on ONE aileron and it works perfectly, far as I can see you dont really need it on both anyway. You should be able to find a 401 cheap as the Heli guys are always "upgrading" to the next best thing....

JUST BE SURE NOT TO USE HEADING HOLD MODE!
Old 06-14-2011, 10:23 AM
  #6  
SinCityJets
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Henderson, NV
Posts: 2,778
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Which Aeroplane Gyros are best?

You can also use the act gyro with a manual gain on the unit itself, however a radio channel is advised.

Chad
Old 06-14-2011, 10:27 AM
  #7  
InboundLZ
My Feedback: (10)
 
InboundLZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 1,944
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Which Aeroplane Gyros are best?


ORIGINAL: SinCityJets

You can also use the act gyro with a manual gain on the unit itself, however a radio channel is advised.

Chad
yeah, there is that too....
Old 06-14-2011, 11:09 AM
  #8  
Geoff White
 
Geoff White's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Oxford, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 1,153
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Which Aeroplane Gyros are best?

Hi Steve,

Yes its a GY351 I am using in the Hunter. Slight correction, its two inputs in, two outputs out so all the differential and crow etc still works fine.
If I was to use another make, I would use ACT with no concerns as they are extensively used in Europe and I have heard no bad reports. On the contrary, I actually bought a top of the range ACT gyro([link=http://www.acteurope.de/html/flachenkreisel_airplane_gyros.html]ACT Gyro[/link]) 2-3 years ago, never got round to trying it, sold it onto a mate who is using it in his Typhoon and he reports it works brillliantly.

Both of these gyros have the ability to remotely adjust the gain or if you are short of channels then you can do it manually on the gyro itself.

Geoff.
Old 06-14-2011, 11:10 AM
  #9  
bandit_av
My Feedback: (1)
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: tel-aviv, ISRAEL
Posts: 267
Received 6 Likes on 3 Posts
Default RE: Which Aeroplane Gyros are best?

Hi
We used one Futaba Gyro on one aileron (the right aileron) in our Kfir and the results were very good.
but bare in your mind that if suddenly you lose the servo because any reason (like we had) the plane
began to be crazy (maybe we had that of craziness because of the plane....)and not very much stable anymore.
The plane ended his life not because of any gyro problem.
It had very bad landing, so gave up of fixing it one more time.

Best regards
Avi
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Ca80530.jpg
Views:	24
Size:	392.0 KB
ID:	1623370  
Old 06-14-2011, 12:11 PM
  #10  
DelGatoGrande
My Feedback: (23)
 
DelGatoGrande's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: ATHENS, , GREECE
Posts: 3,001
Likes: 0
Received 17 Likes on 11 Posts
Default RE: Which Aeroplane Gyros are best?

here we go again ..A gyro on ailerons will give a WRONG INPUT and crash your plane if Adverse yaw takes place = low speeds= landings.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adverse_yaw

Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Pn37686.jpg
Views:	23
Size:	29.2 KB
ID:	1623385  
Old 06-14-2011, 01:14 PM
  #11  
SinCityJets
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Henderson, NV
Posts: 2,778
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Which Aeroplane Gyros are best?


ORIGINAL: DelGatoGrande

here we go again ..A gyro on ailerons will give a WRONG INPUT and crash your plane if Adverse yaw takes place = low speeds= landings.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adverse_yaw

I've seen a lot of people use gyros, on the ailerons, on landings, and none of them have crashed as a result of a wrong input by the gyro. Maybe they are the exception??
Old 06-14-2011, 01:35 PM
  #12  
rcand
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: coral springs, FL
Posts: 434
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Which Aeroplane Gyros are best?


ORIGINAL: DelGatoGrande

here we go again ..A gyro on ailerons will give a WRONG INPUT and crash your plane if Adverse yaw takes place = low speeds= landings.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adverse_yaw

Wow, really, then I guess I better take the gyros off my turbines that I have been flying for the last 4 years, with extreme success and doing nothing that you claim. You need to know how to set it up and what you are doing to make it work right.
Old 06-14-2011, 01:46 PM
  #13  
WhoDaMan
My Feedback: (164)
 
WhoDaMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Davis, CA
Posts: 4,243
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Which Aeroplane Gyros are best?

please explain your setup



ORIGINAL: rcand


ORIGINAL: DelGatoGrande

here we go again ..A gyro on ailerons will give a WRONG INPUT and crash your plane if Adverse yaw takes place = low speeds= landings.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adverse_yaw

Wow, really, then I guess I better take the gyros off my turbines that I have been flying for the last 4 years, with extreme success and doing nothing that you claim. You need to know how to set it up and what you are doing to make it work right.
Old 06-14-2011, 01:53 PM
  #14  
Pepperpete
Senior Member
 
Pepperpete's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Grande Prairie, AB, CANADA
Posts: 630
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Which Aeroplane Gyros are best?

I've tested a few of the GY401's on some of my bigger EDF's with great success. The stability I gained in the wind is remarkable. And I've had zero problems landing them afterwards. But hey if you think the sky is falling...all the power to ya.
Old 06-14-2011, 02:53 PM
  #15  
JackD
My Feedback: (4)
 
JackD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Berkeley, CA
Posts: 759
Received 3 Likes on 2 Posts
Default RE: Which Aeroplane Gyros are best?


ORIGINAL: DelGatoGrande

here we go again ..A gyro on ailerons will give a WRONG INPUT and crash your plane if Adverse yaw takes place = low speeds= landings.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adverse_yaw

Without discussing the validity of this statement, one thing that is important to understand is that the amount of travel we are talking about when using a gyro on ailerons is tiny. It is not like the rudder. Just a tiny bit is enough. Definitely not enough to create adverse yaw. (and again, not argueing the validity of the statement above...)
Old 06-14-2011, 04:41 PM
  #16  
rcand
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: coral springs, FL
Posts: 434
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Which Aeroplane Gyros are best?


ORIGINAL: WhoDaMan

please explain your setup



ORIGINAL: rcand


ORIGINAL: DelGatoGrande

here we go again ..A gyro on ailerons will give a WRONG INPUT and crash your plane if Adverse yaw takes place = low speeds= landings.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adverse_yaw

Wow, really, then I guess I better take the gyros off my turbines that I have been flying for the last 4 years, with extreme success and doing nothing that you claim. You need to know how to set it up and what you are doing to make it work right.
It all depends on the gyro as far as numbers but the idea is to keep the sensitivity low with the travel adjust, especially gyros used for heli's because you don't want to go into tail-lock, and adjust as you see how things are. That is one advantage of being able to put the gyro on a separate knob on the transmitter so your spotter can make small adjustments as you fly. I have the gyro channel programmed with the gear channel so I have more sensitivity when it is slow in landing configuration, and less sensitivity for normal flying. Unfortunately, the gyro's I use and love for airplanes is not available anymore, JR 500A. I know of others using other JR's on the ailerons and have it working well, just a little different sep-up than the 500A
Old 06-15-2011, 12:17 AM
  #17  
bobg
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Northern Ireland, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 208
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Which Aeroplane Gyros are best?

...I have considered putting the futaba gy351aileron gyro on my AW hawk ,
when speaking toGeoff W. herecomended I use one..Iuse gyros every day on my helis .......
my only concern is the heading hold mode !! if it gets turned on by accident then CRASH for sure !....
heading hold is not needed for fixed wing ,are there any wing gyros out there that dont have heading hold ?
Old 06-15-2011, 01:18 AM
  #18  
Ali
My Feedback: (5)
 
Ali's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Northamptonshire , UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 4,994
Likes: 0
Received 18 Likes on 17 Posts
Default RE: Which Aeroplane Gyros are best?

Gy351 all the way.
I have used allot of these units over the years, and have found it to be the most accurate and reliable gyro out there. I used an ACT some years ago and found it drifted ever so slightly.
I set mine up on a 3 position switch with the heading hold ( AVCS) value being 0% so there is no chance of me ever activating that mode. I tend to find that the 351's run quite high value's on ailerons. About 90% + seems normal.
I start at 85%. Take off with gyro off and then switch it in on a straight and level pass, to make sure I get no hunting ( Ailerons bouncing back and forth) I then roll one way, and then the other with as sudden a stop as possible. Again I am looking for hunting from the gyro. I then keep raising the gyro gain rate till I get the model to hunt just a little. I can then lower the gain value 2 or 3% Job done. I never have to touch it again after that.
Flying in heading hold does not necessarily lead to a crash, but it sure is weird. Airworld Hawks are a plane that noticeable benefits from an aileron gyro, you will really appreciate the difference. Some models dont really need a gyro as they are really locked in on all controls, where as others I just wont fly without one. The model itself may fly really well without, but when you get a chance to step back and actually watch the model fly ( Not always possible when you are focused on flying it ) you get to appreciate how much they actually move and fidget in flight. Compare this to the full size that we are trying to replicate and it looks cack. An aileron/ rudder ( I have yet to find a jet that needs one on pitch) really helps sort this out, improve the look of the flight, which in turn makes the entire flying experience that much more enjoyable.
Regards Al
Old 06-15-2011, 01:26 AM
  #19  
Jgwright
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Norfolk , UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 1,409
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Which Aeroplane Gyros are best?

here we go again ..A gyro on ailerons will give a WRONG INPUT and crash your plane if Adverse yaw takes place = low speeds= landings.
This is simply not correct

We have sucessfully flown 6 very different jets with gyros on ailerons and we have substantially improved the slow speed handling in particular with them.

Adverse yaw is much more likely to be caused by aileron differential not being set up correctly. Obviously the gyro has to be set up correctly.

John
Old 06-15-2011, 02:16 AM
  #20  
ddllzzrr
Junior Member
My Feedback: (14)
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: avon, OH
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Which Aeroplane Gyros are best?

Futaba Makes 3 airplane gyros the GY350,351 and 352. The 352 will do 2 axises. they can be found at KEI-MOID it think. Good luck!!! And they do work.
Old 06-15-2011, 02:32 AM
  #21  
JP-1
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Newark-On-Trent, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 1,930
Received 422 Likes on 355 Posts
Default RE: Which Aeroplane Gyros are best?

Keep it simple, Aileron for roll control, and rudder for yaw
Old 06-15-2011, 02:52 AM
  #22  
Geoff White
 
Geoff White's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Oxford, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 1,153
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Which Aeroplane Gyros are best?

Couldn't of put it better Ali.

After being septical of the use of Gyros, I was persuaded by Steve Elias to try a 351 in my Hunter and I never fly with it turned off now as it sooo enhances the scale illusion. My only criticism is that even though I have taken out all the expo from the ailerons, it still feels slightly dead around the centre, like I am running a lot of expo funnily enough. Is this your experience?

Geoff.
Old 06-15-2011, 04:14 AM
  #23  
Nhalyn
Senior Member
 
Nhalyn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Paris, FRANCE
Posts: 387
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Which Aeroplane Gyros are best?

A gyro like GY351 with twice in / twice out should be pluged directly on receiver channels (one by aileron), then out of gyro go to the powerbox "in" (one channel by aileron) and ailerons servos pluged to the "out" of powerbox.

Doing that way gyro are feed with 5 volts even if your ailerons servos are 7.4 volts regulated type.

Hope that helps.
Old 06-15-2011, 04:41 AM
  #24  
DelGatoGrande
My Feedback: (23)
 
DelGatoGrande's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: ATHENS, , GREECE
Posts: 3,001
Likes: 0
Received 17 Likes on 11 Posts
Default RE: Which Aeroplane Gyros are best?


ORIGINAL: DelGatoGrande

here we go again ..A gyro on ailerons will give a WRONG INPUT and crash your plane if Adverse yaw takes place = low speeds= landings.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adverse_yaw




So do we know what Adverse yaw is??=

-we try to roll right but wing rolls left so we going to correct with more right aileron!?!??

-BUT this right aileron causes the wing to roll MORE to the left !=causing a crash??


What a gyro would do in the wing rolls left? It will give right aileron all the way AND "THIS IS SIMPLY NOT CORRECT" unless you are ready for a knife or rolling harrier.

The way out of an adverse yaw is rudder towards the wing that goes up. This way we increase the speed of the falling wing in the air and decrees the speed of the "high" wing in the air correcting them to the same level!

...



My advise is ..bin the aileron gyro and fly more to learn your model.

If you experience need for deferent aileron trims while speed change or wing rocking then you need to check your wings incidence , the lateral balance of your model and your
aileron and flap servos set ups.Years ago Ali told me to use servos with minimum gear slop and that helps too.



Guys don't want to offend anybody,just try to make you see a big mistake surviving over the years and save your plane.

I dont see my self as an expert but a lerner for a life.And "lots of people" /"many years" teach me nothing. Anything better?

IMHO Adverse yaw + aileron gyro = disaster


p.s. sorry for my poor english
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Fd92770.jpg
Views:	22
Size:	19.6 KB
ID:	1623594  
Old 06-15-2011, 05:38 AM
  #25  
Jgwright
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Norfolk , UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 1,409
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Which Aeroplane Gyros are best?

The gyro is plugged into both ailerons and acts on both ailerons at the same time. If there is an uncommanded movement of the wing the gyro will immediately act to act in an opposite direction on both ailerons. It makes for very nice scale like flying, the complete opposite of what you are saying.

John

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.