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The politics of jet flying

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Old 01-01-2013, 05:39 PM
  #176
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Default RE: The politics of jet flying

19 year old here.  

I seriously am doubting the justification to any antagonism towards people my age and younger; In fact, I know several prospective and current R/C pilots my age, and they are all phenomenally responsible with their flying. Granted, only a few are flying larger, glow powered ships - they are mainly interested in park flyers due to cost - but I have been suprised more than once with their commitment to safety. 
It is a similar case when it comes to building - My first R/C model was a Kadet Senior ARTF, but I spend far more time CA'ing my fingers to balsa than I'd care to allude to. 

Many of us simply don't have the time to build, or are not interested...and what is wrong with that? Lets face it, there are not many new tricks to bring outsiders into this hobby, and by making it easier by opening it up to those of us without workshops and countless hours of spare time will help us all in the long run. 

...And just to clarify, "Video Games", (Flight Simulator 98 and Il2 1946) are one of the main reasons I became interested in this hobby, so I wouldn't go so far as to say that they have all been detrimental to our hobby! 

Thank you,

Graeme 
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Old 01-01-2013, 06:08 PM
  #177
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: BaldEagel

C'mon guys its time this was put to bed, both the oldies and the newbies can be a pain, but in this new year lets live and let live.

Mike
What? You mean that theory of 'live and let live' didn't happen in 2012, 2011, 2010 or any other year?
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Old 01-01-2013, 07:03 PM
  #178
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: GraemeEllis

19 year old here.

I seriously am doubting the justification to any antagonism towards people my age and younger; In fact, I know several prospective and current R/C pilots my age, and they are all phenomenally responsible with their flying. Granted, only a few are flying larger, glow powered ships - they are mainly interested in park flyers due to cost - but I have been suprised more than once with their commitment to safety.
It is a similar case when it comes to building - My first R/C model was a Kadet Senior ARTF, but I spend far more time CA'ing my fingers to balsa than I'd care to allude to.

Many of us simply don't have the time to build, or are not interested...and what is wrong with that? Lets face it, there are not many new tricks to bring outsiders into this hobby, and by making it easier by opening it up to those of us without workshops and countless hours of spare time will help us all in the long run.

...And just to clarify, ''Video Games'', (Flight Simulator 98 and Il2 1946) are one of the main reasons I became interested in this hobby, so I wouldn't go so far as to say that they have all been detrimental to our hobby!

Thank you,

Graeme
+1...well said, Graeme.

The (too few) young fliers that have shown up at our club have been totally open to suggestions and mentoring, and make every effort to fly safely.

Sluggo
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Old 01-02-2013, 12:08 AM
  #179
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Default RE: The politics of jet flying

Any flight videos of the b-58?
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Old 01-02-2013, 12:23 AM
  #180
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Default RE: The politics of jet flying

I know there is some old D/F video on Utube just gotta dig it up
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Old 01-02-2013, 12:57 AM
  #181
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meF68d4MvYc
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Old 01-02-2013, 08:39 AM
  #182
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Default RE: The politics of jet flying

Being one of the “old” guys I feel I have to comment. I have been flying R/C since 1952. During discussions at the flying clubs I belong to when safety discussions occur I have heard this comment more than once when a proposed safety rule is being considered. “ I have been flying here for 5 years and I have not seen any body injured.”

My reply, “ I have seen a 8yr old girl hit in the head and it required 15 stitches, the club President knocked unconscious when he was flying when a wing hit him in the head, a pylon pilot suffered a broken arm in the ready area when hit by a another pylon plane.

Three years ago I had safety concerns at one of the fields I fly at. That was the first year of a new young regime in office. I pointed out my concerns and received derogatory remarks about you “old” XXXX. My solution was to drop out of a club I helped start 51 years ago. The club is now addressing some of the concerns I had 3 years ago.

This same club had a fire about 2yrs ago that burned about 5 acres in a state park caused by the crash of a turbine powered helicopter. The club immediately called for a vote to ban turbines. I attended the meeting and ask they reconsider because it could set a precedent for other state park flying fields. As far as I know the turbine ban rule was tabled. There have been at least 3 fires from lipos but no suggested rule change to ban electrics.

I think there is a feeling that turbine flyers are “elitist”, not generally true in my opinion. Two factors may cause this, most turbine planes are elite and personally I don’t like to converse when I am preparing and flying my turbine model, I need to focus my attention on what I am doing.

Just one “old” guys opinion.
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Old 01-02-2013, 09:19 AM
  #183
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Default RE: The politics of jet flying

Quote:
ORIGINAL: sidgates

“elitist”... Two factors may cause this, most turbine planes are elite and personally I don’t like to converse when I am preparing and flying my turbine model, I need to focus my attention on what I am doing.

Just one “old” guys opinion.
Sir,
You have a good point. I share what has worked for me and then a couple of observations...

WE ALL need work at better understanding eachother. When you first arrive at a flying field take a moment to shake hands and talk before we get going, then we can get to flying and everyone there will know you're on a limited time schedule, or if you have all day. Talking first, and initiating conversation will eliminate folks having to feel like they are "enforcing" rules. Instead, if they have something to say, they will know you are approachable.

There are several "types" of RC pilots sharing the same flying field, forget the ages:

1. Sunday fliers, having fun and are happy with where they are in the hobby.

2. People flying larger or more complicated models that enjoy talking and hanging out, but when it is time to fly, they really should be concentrating and we all need to leave them to the task.

3. Competitors. These RC modelers have arrived at the field with little time to get some practice in before an aerobatic meet or before getting back home to do chores, spend time with their families, etc.

4. The middle aged crowd who loves to fly, doesn't really go to the field for talking, and also has to get home to do chores. They just worked a 50 hour week and they know if they stay too long they will miss out on a family event, kids soccer practice, or other event.

Category 4 is where most of the people I know (including myself) fall into between the ages of 20 and 65. Here's the rub...the crowd that can spend eight plus hours at the flying field and get in three flights is happy with how they have earned the ability to do that.

Since most of the Category 4 people don't make the initial investment by extending a greeting and being friendly up front, no matter what everyone else is doing, everyone is put off.
The 20 to 65 crowd is annoyed when they are expeditiously readying two or more planes for flight, knowing that they have about four hours before they have to leave and are constantly being asked questions or otherwise engaged by the people who have been there for four hours already and will be there a few more, who aren't interested in flying back to back flights.

Long post to say this: take the initiative! Say hi and be yourself while knowing and following written club/AMA rules. There will be plenty of days when only a few show up at the field and there's tons of room/time for flying.

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Old 01-02-2013, 10:02 AM
  #184
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Default RE: The politics of jet flying


Now that was a B-58 model worthy of being called scale!

Bob
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Old 01-02-2013, 12:51 PM
  #185
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Default RE: The politics of jet flying


Quote:
ORIGINAL: gunradd

I am a member of a club down here in Florida and a few weeks ago we had a Shokjet crash. The plane lost its elevator control...
This has nothing to do with your field problem but I was wondering do you know or have an idea of what happened to the elevator?


Thx,
Steve
(Shokjet owner)
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Old 01-02-2013, 01:52 PM
  #186
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Default RE: The politics of jet flying

Would it have a made a diffrence if it was a nitro prop crashing through someon's windsheild?
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Old 01-02-2013, 06:05 PM
  #187
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: rhklenke


Now that was a B-58 model worthy of being called scale!

Bob
Yep, and not the one shown on the table in the other post.
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Old 01-02-2013, 06:28 PM
  #188
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Default RE: The politics of jet flying


Quote:
ORIGINAL: StevL


Quote:
ORIGINAL: gunradd

I am a member of a club down here in Florida and a few weeks ago we had a Shokjet crash. The plane lost its elevator control...
This has nothing to do with your field problem but I was wondering do you know or have an idea of what happened to the elevator?


Thx,
Steve
(Shokjet owner)
From what I was told Steve is the elevator failed to respond. He had all other controls. When it went in just no elevator.
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Old 01-03-2013, 06:55 PM
  #189
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Default RE: The politics of jet flying


Lynn McCauley must have built another B-58. See the video at 5:47 that I took in 2000. I think he was at the meet to try to work out the purchase of turbines for the B-58 in my video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEtBraHHBXM
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Old 12-24-2013, 06:04 AM
  #190
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Hey who is still flying jets in the Tampa area? Finally moving back to Florida in 6 months and will need a place to fly my turbine and my big 3d! I use to fly at Jets at Markham park for years but while spending a year in cold Nebraska, will finally be heading to our home town Tampa for good! I have flown with my bud Tom Teleska at Sarasota and that was a cool place but also want to see if there's a longer runway for my Yellow Twin 18. Noticed Charlie sold the shop back in 2006. Been a long time since I've been in the Tampa loop!

Last edited by Flightwerkz; 12-24-2013 at 06:33 AM.
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Old 12-24-2013, 07:08 AM
  #191
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Maybee its my club but each turbine flyer is required to bring there own Co2 extinguisher as there more costly than the regular ABC

To help the club feel better I donate an extra Co2 that we keep separately from the otheres

We had a falcon 120 go downwon its maden flight and as it was a older flyer I ran out there with them with that heavy bottle just in case of fire

This had made the otheres feel better
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Old 12-24-2013, 07:34 AM
  #192
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We have a nice club out here with the same issues. From what I recall, our club banned turbines due to a claimed near miss with a civilian aircraft.
The issue was more political than valid. Any model can create a near miss.
The guys at our field are more the large 3D types.

If fire is a concern, and banning turbines is all that is suggested or coming , I would create a turbine season during which time the landscape is either cut way down, or naturally by season very green, or both to minimize fire spreading. This would work here in So. Cal, however the powers that be do not think in this type of expanded mentality. Fortunately So.Cal has a lot of open dessert.

Steve
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Old 12-24-2013, 07:44 AM
  #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkunkWerkz View Post
Hey who is still flying jets in the Tampa area? Finally moving back to Florida in 6 months and will need a place to fly my turbine and my big 3d! I use to fly at Jets at Markham park for years but while spending a year in cold Nebraska, will finally be heading to our home town Tampa for good! I have flown with my bud Tom Teleska at Sarasota and that was a cool place but also want to see if there's a longer runway for my Yellow Twin 18. Noticed Charlie sold the shop back in 2006. Been a long time since I've been in the Tampa loop!
I will PM you my number. Only place to go from Tampa is Sarasota Opoppka or Ocala. Lakeland also has a jet field but they have crazy rules and only let you fly at odd times when no one else will be at the field.

At Ocala we just got a jet flyer back in the presidents seat and all is good now Been having a great time flying. Also just for icing on the cake we had an electric foamy plane go down and start a grass fire. But since we had the turbine fire we got a Gator cart with fire extinguishers and rakes on it for fire response. It worked great. Just like the turbine fire the grass started spreading out in a circle fast but the big water extinguishers put it right out. So the key is getting to the fire fast with water extinguishers for the grass.

This proved to the guys trying to ban the jets that all planes can make a fire and the entire issue has been dropped.
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Old 12-24-2013, 08:37 AM
  #194
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So in one years time it has gone full circle, that's excellent news for you and all of the turbine flyers in your club!
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Old 12-24-2013, 01:47 PM
  #195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkunkWerkz View Post
Hey who is still flying jets in the Tampa area? Finally moving back to Florida in 6 months and will need a place to fly my turbine and my big 3d! I use to fly at Jets at Markham park for years but while spending a year in cold Nebraska, will finally be heading to our home town Tampa for good! I have flown with my bud Tom Teleska at Sarasota and that was a cool place but also want to see if there's a longer runway for my Yellow Twin 18. Noticed Charlie sold the shop back in 2006. Been a long time since I've been in the Tampa loop!
Theres also cape coral to the south, but about an hour or 2 drive from tampa
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Old 12-24-2013, 02:00 PM
  #196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkunkWerkz View Post
Hey who is still flying jets in the Tampa area? Finally moving back to Florida in 6 months and will need a place to fly my turbine and my big 3d! I use to fly at Jets at Markham park for years but while spending a year in cold Nebraska, will finally be heading to our home town Tampa for good! I have flown with my bud Tom Teleska at Sarasota and that was a cool place but also want to see if there's a longer runway for my Yellow Twin 18. Noticed Charlie sold the shop back in 2006. Been a long time since I've been in the Tampa loop!
You can still fly a turbine at SPARKS, but!! Airspace is an issue,and they are strong on a 400 foot rule, due to being with 2.2 miles of a ATC control zone

Otherwise, SRQ, Ocala, and Cape Coral! Very limiting /
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Old 12-24-2013, 02:58 PM
  #197
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Waco Texas,,all turbines are welcome, I'm building my first one, and have nothing but support, most are as excited as me. 800' paved runway. For a few old timers trying to dictate what others fly is BS and would piss me off. Luckily my club is a great group of guys.
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Old 12-24-2013, 03:18 PM
  #198
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Texas is a little far to drive from Tampa! I only need one place to fly the jets. Flew at Markham park for many years without needing anywhere else. I don't like dealing with clubs because I think some of the geriatrics are the reason for the decline of the hobby. In my experience with a lot of them over the years, they can be grouchy, unfriendly and definately not open to different things ie, jets. Funny thing is the older they are, seems the more dangerous they are with airplanes as simple as trainers. I almost got my head taken off while flying one of my jets by an FOG while he was on take off and couldn't keep his giant cub on the runway centerline. How ironic would that have been! Man flying jet gets killed by an older pilot who constantly complains about jets being dangerous! Were looking at a 25+ acre piece of land south of Riverview so I can fly my props there. I'm sure I'll fly at Sarasota. My bud Tom Teleska took me there once. Pretty cool club.
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Old 12-25-2013, 05:43 AM
  #199
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Gunradd, the "guys" told you what the problem is: "They said I fly to low,fast,high and far blah blah blah." And the way you said it here shows it even more. It seems that you just don't care what they think! "Blah, blah, blah:" Since you likely won't change your attitude you should take the suggestion of others and find another club.
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