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  1. #26
    Boomerang1's Avatar
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    RE: NEW FUEL VENT SYSTEM - a 'no hassle' device but which format is best?

    its a pitot tube for a turbine ECU speed sensor
    Um... I know that, I got the pic from the BVM site.

    Marc will know what I mean. - John.

  2. #27
    marc s's Avatar
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    RE: NEW FUEL VENT SYSTEM - a 'no hassle' device but which format is best?

    A few have asked to see pictures and learn a little more about the product I am developing, so here is an update and some info on the ideas and product that has so far been worked on.

    The product family is going to be called MAGLOK, and essentially it is a taxi tank vent connection system which works using a magnetic lock system, the original idea came from Ali Machinchy who suggested it might just be a possible solution to connecting a vent so that it was dead easy to remove and fit at the field when you need simple quick and reliable taxi tank hook-up.

    Following some sketches and researching products to use I have designed and worked out two versions, hence the original question, one flush 'female' variant and one more commonly used 'male' version. Both use a magnetic lock system which when the connector to your feed tank is positioned close to the 'female' or just located over the end of the 'male' fitting the coupling is 'pulled' into a locked position by the strength of the magnetic lock. A simple O ring will seal the fitting (Viton on production versions) and this sits on the shaft base of the male probe fitting from the feed tank (female variant) and on the male probe fitted to the aircraft on the 'male' version. Its simple and uses no complex latching rings, sleeves or springs etc. A gentle tug releases the connection.

    The parts fitted to the fuselage are made from aluminium and the plan would be to anodise them (what colour is the next question!) so the unit is light, naturally there is also magnet components too on each fuselage fitting. The connection part is made from steel and will be plated in chrome or something to give it a durable finish. Currently the pipe connection is a barb both inside the fuselage and on the external coupler but this could easily be a Festo or SMC push fit item too.

    I have sourced and are soon to be testing a 'check valve' which could also be fitted directly to the outboard steel fitting to provide a solution to fuel shut off once the fitting was removed. Until this is tested and tried it is not going to be part of the MAGLOK fuel vent but could be offered as an additional accessory.

    Hopefully along with the pictures the MAGLOK fuel vent will become clearer to those who are interested. I spoke also to Todd who is happy to see this developed and like all things people have a choice and the more options around the better it is for us all - he will stock it if it shows signs of being popular.

    Keep the preferences coming with respect to type (male or female variant), if the verdict is not clear cut I may offer both formats. Please also note this is a prototype, still to be fully tested and was hand made by my good friend Terry 'the' Best on his small but capable lathe - should the MAGLOK fuel vent reach production it will be made and fully plated to a very high quality.

    marcs
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  3. #28

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    RE: NEW FUEL VENT SYSTEM - a 'no hassle' device but which format is best?

    Looks very good. Good idea the use of magnets. I vote red for the colour

  4. #29
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    RE: NEW FUEL VENT SYSTEM - a 'no hassle' device but which format is best?

    Nice Marc (as always!!)

    Bring half a dozen when you next pop over

  5. #30
    marc s's Avatar
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    RE: NEW FUEL VENT SYSTEM - a 'no hassle' device but which format is best?

    Cheers Mark for the support, not as easy to pop in now you have moved but will come down your way soon with some Hawk gear brakes and a few MAGLOK fuel vent fittings -

    marcs

  6. #31

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    RE: NEW FUEL VENT SYSTEM - a 'no hassle' device but which format is best?


    ORIGINAL: Su26flyer

    Looks very good. Good idea the use of magnets. I vote red for the colour

    Yes. I liked that magnet idea as well. Now all we would have to do it affix a flat washer on top of the fueler cap and when we return it to the can it would stay in place.
    Scratch it till it bleeds Convert it till it chokes

  7. #32
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    RE: NEW FUEL VENT SYSTEM - a 'no hassle' device but which format is best?

    Looks good Marc! My vote would be to leave it matte aluminum so it could be painted to blend into the fuse.
    Sean McHale - Malvern, PA
    "Strive for simplicity. You never have to repair what you leave out." - Bill Lear
    Kingtech Turbines - www.kingtechturbines.com

  8. #33
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    RE: NEW FUEL VENT SYSTEM - a 'no hassle' device but which format is best?

    +1 on the Magnet idea. Nice and smooth, not dependent on a friction seal.

    I hate having wet fuel on my fingertips just before I fly. It gets my touch screen on my tx all slimey. Always seems to happen from pulling on hoses and then trying to seal them in a festo fitting on the bottle.

    Male or female, which is least likely to drip fuel on your fingers, that's the one I'll use. Make them both, not much tooling on a CNC lathe, let the market decide.

    Color? Mill finish Aluminum is not bad. Perhaps anodized gray? I have a lot of scale gray jets.

    +1 on Todd @ Dreamworks as a US Distributor, he does a great job.

    Good luck, hope to see this soon!

  9. #34
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    RE: NEW FUEL VENT SYSTEM - a 'no hassle' device but which format is best?

    Personally I'd prefer to see the male part on the plane so when I forget the tank I can just shove any old tank on it.

    Jason

  10. #35
    marc s's Avatar
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    RE: NEW FUEL VENT SYSTEM - a 'no hassle' device but which format is best?

    Milled aluminium would I think keep the fitting 'neutral' in colour so those who want to paint it can do so without issues of a darker base colour to overcome - time will tell.

    Personally I'd prefer to see the male part on the plane so when I forget the tank I can just shove any old tank on it.
    Jason the normal 1/4 Tygon (6.3mm ish) fits into the female fitting snugly so yes you can just use the pipe 'in an emergency', on the male version I will look at the bore sizes and see if its possible to use the larger Tygon on this version for emergency connections - currently its just a little larger than the bore on this larger Tygon to allow a simple push over.....

    Cheers for all the feedback, it looks like I may make both available to start with.

    marcs

  11. #36
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    RE: NEW FUEL VENT SYSTEM - a 'no hassle' device but which format is best?


    My first elan had a flush vent.. Fuel stains all the way back

    my second elan I just put a brass tube down about 1/4 inch and feathered it into the wind 45 degrees.. no spots..

    That said, if you need a close flush mount, you can put a larger hole in the bottom, and then build a ply mount for the tube that barely sticks down into the wind but is recessed.. John Redman's idea.. he had a couple planes with it..

    Its also the cheapest setup.. 42cents for a brass tubing, and a scrap of ply on the inside to glue to..

    Another trick is to glue the tubing to the ply very well with CA or Epoxy, and use silicone to glue the ply to the skin from the inside.. has a little give in it for the time you set it on the tube...just make the exit where you can get to it to reset it if needed.. the only downside to having a piece of tubing sticking out of the fuse..
    Goose
    Wren Turbines USA, Fromeco Avionics, JetiUSA Flight Team, www.Espritmodel.com www.demonaero.com

  12. #37
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    RE: NEW FUEL VENT SYSTEM - a 'no hassle' device but which format is best?

    personally I use a 6mm festo straight fitting facing forward. When not in use it is plugged with a Festo plug with a strip of ribbon attached (lest I forget to remove it). The benefit is that it is a simple system that can be connected and disconnected quickly with 6mm festo tube, with no "special"fittings required. It also ensures slight positive tank pressure, whilst a flush fitting, as mentioned by others wil do the opposite. The downside is that there is often not a place that you can hide it away and it does not look too pretty. Something that could deal with those issues, such as a clip in mount would get my vote.
    John

  13. #38

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    RE: NEW FUEL VENT SYSTEM - a 'no hassle' device but which format is best?

    Ok got the quote..
    Jim \"Bullet\"

  14. #39

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    RE: NEW FUEL VENT SYSTEM - a 'no hassle' device but which format is best?


    ORIGINAL: stevekott


    ORIGINAL: bskyinc

    Have always preferred a short metal tube with the end sticking out bottom of fuse cut on a 45 deg angle acting as
    Ram pressure on vent, don't know if it provides much pressure to help force fuel from tank to tank to pump, but anything is better than relying on pump suction alone
    I have had problems with pushing any ram pressure into the tank. *If the tank gets any positive pressure in it and you fly inverted for any period of time this happens. *Inverted the pressure on vent can become a negative and the fuel vent inside the tank is now bathed in fuel. *That can cause a ''Fuel Fountain'' blowing out of the vent heading toward the hot exaust gas. *I had the bottom of my Boomerang come back all scorched after a flight. *I could not figure out what happened until I took out the leaf blower and was able to reproduce the fountain on the ground. *Just a caution.

    If you have a short vent line this can happen but a longer vent line should give you enough volume that this wont happen
    Jim \"Bullet\"

  15. #40

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    RE: NEW FUEL VENT SYSTEM - a 'no hassle' device but which format is best?

    Hi,
    The Solution is really simple and I have used it for some 15 years of jet flying. A one way valve with anti siphon preload upstream of the vent. I use a festo QS one way valve. No external cap required.
    No streaks when flying, no drips in the car, no plug to forget to remove. The vent is there to let air in, not let fuel out.
    Use a seperate overflow vent and fill line wherever else you want it with stoppers. I hid mine in the nosegear well. No fuel on my airframe either,
    I drop a length of tube out with festo tap valves or QS connectors with festo stopper, connect both to my refueler, and when finished tuck them back in. Ideal is a catch of some sort and a Magnet to hold them back in. use a "fence" to have them not interfere with the nose gear.
    Superclean when refueling. No fuel in the pits. Improved fire safety. I have a return line from the vent to my filler tank. No spills. I can walk away and forget the fuelpump on.
    Andre

  16. #41

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    RE: NEW FUEL VENT SYSTEM - a 'no hassle' device but which format is best?

    Marc,

    I am thinking of using the Maglok on functional Smke/Fuel tank. Having the parts already fitted in rail and tank, it would make it a breath to attach or remove functional tank without having to worry about fuel/smoke fluid dripping etc...
    Will this accessory whistand the pressure of fuel/smoke pump running into it without having the risk of fuel spilling out when pressure is at its highest??

    Thanks,
    Regards,

    Dany
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  17. #42
    marc s's Avatar
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    RE: NEW FUEL VENT SYSTEM - a 'no hassle' device but which format is best?

    I'm interested to know what the 'crack' pressure is on a Festo valve? From doing research it's not very low and vent systems need to have as little restriction on them as possible to prevent a partial vacuum in the tank system - anyone got the data?

    Also just to re-affirm the thought process on this product design - its to allow very simple and reliable hook up and disconnect of the fuel vent with minimal effort and use of a few fingers at most, its not to introduce one way valves in the vent line etc which you can do with any filler system, I want to prevent those situations where a pipe wont go on easily or come off easily, or a fitting which requires mole grips to release or 8 pairs of hands

    marcs

  18. #43
    marc s's Avatar
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    RE: NEW FUEL VENT SYSTEM - a 'no hassle' device but which format is best?

    Dany, not sure it will work in this situation as the pressure from a pump can reach some fairly high psi's. The Maglok is primarily designed for the vent where suction also assists the connection and seal forces.

    marcs

  19. #44

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    RE: NEW FUEL VENT SYSTEM - a 'no hassle' device but which format is best?

    Marc,

    It would be interesting to do some tests (if you can) to see if you get fuel dripping off while both ends of Maglok are secured and cannot move....
    I don't know if you get the picture!!

    Thanks,
    Regards,

    Dany

  20. #45
    Henke Torphammar's Avatar
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    RE: NEW FUEL VENT SYSTEM - a 'no hassle' device but which format is best?

    I've not scanned the full thread and maybe this been up before. While at it make the external hose nozzle self sealing when removed. Festo has great quick relese connector but I assume they cost too much for you as a manufacturer to use. Maybe you could use a small ball to seal the plug that's activated by the magnet.



    /Henke
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  21. #46
    Henke Torphammar's Avatar
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    RE: NEW FUEL VENT SYSTEM - a 'no hassle' device but which format is best?

    ORIGINAL: marc s

    Dany, not sure it will work in this situation as the pressure from a pump can reach some fairly high psi's. The Maglok is primarily designed for the vent where suction also assists the connection and seal forces.

    marcs

    Then you would have to refuel the taxi tank too. If making a locked in connector you could refuel the taxitank in the same process as refueling the jet. You could still use O-rings, but maybe a sort of mechanical lock thats activated while refueling.
    /Henke
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  22. #47

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    RE: NEW FUEL VENT SYSTEM - a 'no hassle' device but which format is best?


    ORIGINAL: Henke Torphammar

    I've not scanned the full thread and maybe this been up before. While at it make the external hose nozzle self sealing when removed. Festo has great quick relese connector but I assume they cost too much for you as a manufacturer to use. Maybe you could use a small ball to seal the plug that's activated by the magnet.



    I have used that fitting. Its much better than the Festo shutoff valves which under vacuum lets air in. This does not but its kinda bulky and not cheap as I remember.
    Marc,
    Like I said, I have used it on all my jets, there is no issue with "cracking" it or tanks colapsing. The vacuum effect from multiple tanks is much worse.
    In fact its not that heavily loaded hence I had to come up with another fix after a while.
    What I desribed is not the complete picture, I also have a fuel trap, kinda anti UAT that collects any weeping back. When the engine runs that fuel gets returned to main tanks.
    A small bottle of 50ml is enough.


  23. #48
    marc s's Avatar
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    RE: NEW FUEL VENT SYSTEM - a 'no hassle' device but which format is best?

    Henke the point with the Maglok is to keep things simple, there are no moving parts so nothing can break or jam or clog it up (unless you belly land and don't clean off the mud and grass!) for those who want a valve to shut the flow off then I will make available (subject to sourcing the right unit) a valve which can screw into the fitting on the connection end of the Maglok from your feed from the taxi tank that will do the job (like the Festo) - so you have the 'keep it simple' option and the 'not so simple' option too

    I am not sure the Festo fitting is that easy to remove with one hand and cold fingers either as I remember the spring and collar system being quite stiff to move however this may have changed since my last experience.

    marcs

  24. #49
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    RE: NEW FUEL VENT SYSTEM - a 'no hassle' device but which format is best?

    Am I missing something here, I thought a VENT line needed to be open to the atmosphere to work, putting some kind of valve on the VENT line is just asking for fuel feed problems IMO.

    MIke
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  25. #50
    marc s's Avatar
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    RE: NEW FUEL VENT SYSTEM - a 'no hassle' device but which format is best?

    The check valve I mention is only to go on the feed from the taxi tank to prevent too much fuel spill when the filler is disconnected.

    marcs


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