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Gyros 'N jets

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Old 01-26-2013, 10:09 PM
  #1
husafreak
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Default Gyros 'N jets

I am interested in trying a gyro on the steering of my Electra or future jet... I see Dreamworks has a JR370 which is expensive and an Eflight which is reasonable. But now that the heli guys have embraced Flybarless units you can pick up a great heli rudder gyro for peanuts. Seams like a no brainier to me, just a single axis gyro right? And if I go gyro do you recommend Rate mode or Heading Hold mode, again I imagine rate mode would be fine for short landing or takeoff runs. Any advice on how to set the gain? Thanks
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Old 01-26-2013, 11:17 PM
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: husafreak

I am interested in trying a gyro on the steering of my Electra or future jet... I see Dreamworks has a JR370 which is expensive and an Eflight which is reasonable. But now that the heli guys have embraced Flybarless units you can pick up a great heli rudder gyro for peanuts. Seams like a no brainier to me, just a single axis gyro right? And if I go gyro do you recommend Rate mode or Heading Hold mode, again I imagine rate mode would be fine for short landing or takeoff runs. Any advice on how to set the gain? Thanks
Eric,

You need rate gyro, not hhold.
If you are installing one on the nose gear, you might as well couple it with the rudder. Rudder gyros always help.
In my electra I have a jr 270 and works perfectly.

Another option is the 370A, which is only rate

Regarding setting, put it initially on a knob and increase the rate until you start getting tail wagging. Then dial it down a bit

You also might want to have a higher gyro rates with flaps down than flaps up, so it will be more effective at low speeds and more effective on the ground

Good idea trying to find a used one given the fbl migration, just make sure it has a rate mode

Had fun flying today, Doing a great job with the electra


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Old 01-26-2013, 11:35 PM
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Default RE: Gyros 'N jets

what i use in touchy steerings
http://dreamworksrc.com/catalog/micr...ro-p-1043.html
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Old 01-27-2013, 06:30 AM
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Default RE: Gyros 'N jets

DelGatoGrande,
Are you mounting these at the center of rotation or can they be mounted a little closer to the front of the cockpit where there is a little more room? Also, do you have a recommmended starting point for the gain when used in steering mode only?
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Old 01-27-2013, 06:54 AM
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Default RE: Gyros 'N jets

With the emergence of the AS3X tech, I have to wonder if gyros will go south in the future? I know it wil be awhile but look what they are doing to calm the little park flyers and stuff down.
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Old 01-27-2013, 07:06 AM
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Default RE: Gyros 'N jets

Gyros can be located any where. Gyros measure rotation. Hopefully the entire aircraft will always be rotating at the same angular velocity.
The only critical mounting considerations are that it be mounted with its sensing axis exactly aligned with the axis of the aircraft. that it is sensing. Meaning that if you are using it for rudder or steering, the vertical axis of the gyro must me vertical in the aircraft.
The other consideration is vibration. Most gyros do not like vibration. If flight this is not an issue. while on the ground, a bumpy runway like a grass field may cause some vibration and result in some slight issues.

As mentioned above. Start with a low gain on a dial or slider and work up till you get instability and then back off some.
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Old 01-27-2013, 07:21 AM
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: sailing1

DelGatoGrande,
Are you mounting these at the center of rotation or can they be mounted a little closer to the front of the cockpit where there is a little more room? Also, do you have a recommmended starting point for the gain when used in steering mode only?
You can mount it anywhere it doesnt matter .I place at the nose close to the steering servo so i wont use extension.
I would never recommend a starting point since geometry can change the outcome.For example trailing link nose legs need more gain than direct.
Mount it and move the nose left and right.Gently corections is what you should see even in hard changes.

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Old 01-27-2013, 08:01 AM
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Default RE: Gyros 'N jets

Hi after flying the jets for full day we go for gyro or two with friends ,I only witness problems with gyros including two totall loss crashes, and for that reason I using mine pilot talent ,at least for now.
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Old 01-27-2013, 11:03 AM
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Default RE: Gyros 'N jets

Here is use what I use on the rudder of tail dragers for take off and landing:

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXCNFR&P=SM

Bruce
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Old 01-27-2013, 11:18 AM
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Default RE: Gyros 'N jets

Thank guys, good to hear the simple and cheap GWS gyro can get the job done. Come to think of it I have one of those in my DLG. The JR370A is 165 bucks so I will look for a less expensive solution, maybe the 270 is less. The Futaba looks good too, cant argue the quality there. I will probably stick with nose gear only initially at least until I figure how it would affect the rudder during flight? It would be possible to have the flap switch turn off the gyro (zero gain) on retraction, Or put it on a knob like you Jack said and play with it to see. All heading Hold gyros are capable of Rate Mode too as far as I know, it is just a function of how you set the TX gain. And while I agree with sysiek that the edible gyros are the best ones, I am very skeptical of how a gyro could cause a total loss crash, they are simple and reliable and pretty transparent.
Jack, after replacing the main gear tires and adjusting the toe in the Electra was definitely handling better on the runway but still it is more sensitive to corrections at high speed than any model I have ever owned, it almost always wants to veer one way or the other on touchdown roll out.
FWIW I picked up a Spectrum RX with the ASX3 system at my LHS last week, couldn't resist! Should be fun to play with, starting small.
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Old 01-28-2013, 12:04 PM
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Default RE: Gyros 'N jets


Quote:
ORIGINAL: husafreak

Thank guys, good to hear the simple and cheap GWS gyro can get the job done. Come to think of it I have one of those in my DLG. The JR370A is 165 bucks so I will look for a less expensive solution, maybe the 270 is less. The Futaba looks good too, cant argue the quality there. I will probably stick with nose gear only initially at least until I figure how it would affect the rudder during flight? It would be possible to have the flap switch turn off the gyro (zero gain) on retraction, Or put it on a knob like you Jack said and play with it to see. All heading Hold gyros are capable of Rate Mode too as far as I know, it is just a function of how you set the TX gain. And while I agree with sysiek that the edible gyros are the best ones, I am very skeptical of how a gyro could cause a total loss crash, they are simple and reliable and pretty transparent.
Jack, after replacing the main gear tires and adjusting the toe in the Electra was definitely handling better on the runway but still it is more sensitive to corrections at high speed than any model I have ever owned, it almost always wants to veer one way or the other on touchdown roll out.
FWIW I picked up a Spectrum RX with the ASX3 system at my LHS last week, couldn't resist! Should be fun to play with, starting small.
The Futaba GY240 Gyro is Heading Hold only. It does not have a "Rate" or "Normal mode. There may be others that I am not familiar with.

Depending on the failure mode of the gyro and what control it was connected to. It is possible for a gyro to fail in a way that locks the servo hard over to one side. This is not a common thing. In 15 years in helies and who knows how many thousands of successful flights, and failures of various sorts that I have seen, I have only seen this once. The most common gyro failure that I have seen (short of setup error) is the mounting tape letting go and the gyro flopping around giving all kinds of bad instructions to the servo. Many heli fliers now put a velcro safety strap over the gyro to prevent this.
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Old 01-28-2013, 02:32 PM
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Default RE: Gyros 'N jets

I have used the 240 for years in jets. The avs switch turns the heading hold off.  Dan
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Old 01-28-2013, 04:29 PM
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Default RE: Gyros 'N jets

I just put a JR G270 on the Bandit for steering only. Seems to help but still playing/finding the gain setting. Has both rate and heading options, but I'm using it in rate mode.
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Old 01-29-2013, 06:20 AM
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Default RE: Gyros 'N jets


Quote:
ORIGINAL: flyinfool1


The Futaba GY240 Gyro is Heading Hold only. It does not have a ''Rate'' or ''Normal mode. There may be others that I am not familiar with.

Depending on the failure mode of the gyro and what control it was connected to. It is possible for a gyro to fail in a way that locks the servo hard over to one side. This is not a common thing. In 15 years in helies and who knows how many thousands of successful flights, and failures of various sorts that I have seen, I have only seen this once. The most common gyro failure that I have seen (short of setup error) is the mounting tape letting go and the gyro flopping around giving all kinds of bad instructions to the servo. Many heli fliers now put a velcro safety strap over the gyro to prevent this.
It has a dip switch, it just doesn't have the second lead so it can be changed in flight.
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Old 01-29-2013, 07:01 AM
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Default RE: Gyros 'N jets

I love the 240. There is a switch to put in normal mode. Makes braking and takeoff wonderful. Also heli guys are giving them away. The last one I got lightly used for $30
Performs awesome.
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Old 01-29-2013, 07:37 AM
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Is there any problem with running two Gyros in one plane? I want to set up a small 1/8 scale Tamjets F16 with a Futaba 352 gyro running in Elevon mode and GWS Pc-03 for the steering. Both will need to be in the front of the plane, probably with the GWS right in front of the Futaba 352 due to space limitations. If this setup will work out, I would then like to duplicate it in a larger F35. I don't really think the little F16 needs the help but it should make a good air frame for me to get used to the gyros.
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Old 01-29-2013, 08:42 AM
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Default RE: Gyros 'N jets


Quote:
ORIGINAL: kevinthoele

I love the 240. There is a switch to put in normal mode. Makes braking and takeoff wonderful. Also heli guys are giving them away. The last one I got lightly used for $30
Performs awesome.
Supply and demand, now that we know the jet guys want them the price will go up!
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Old 01-29-2013, 08:48 AM
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Default RE: Gyros 'N jets


Quote:
ORIGINAL: BarracudaHockey


Quote:
ORIGINAL: flyinfool1


The Futaba GY240 Gyro is Heading Hold only. It does not have a ''Rate'' or ''Normal mode. There may be others that I am not familiar with.

Depending on the failure mode of the gyro and what control it was connected to. It is possible for a gyro to fail in a way that locks the servo hard over to one side. This is not a common thing. In 15 years in helies and who knows how many thousands of successful flights, and failures of various sorts that I have seen, I have only seen this once. The most common gyro failure that I have seen (short of setup error) is the mounting tape letting go and the gyro flopping around giving all kinds of bad instructions to the servo. Many heli fliers now put a velcro safety strap over the gyro to prevent this.
It has a dip switch, it just doesn't have the second lead so it can be changed in flight.
Thats kind of what I ment, Once airborn you can not turn off the Heading Hold or make changes to the gain. So if something is a bad setting you are stuck with it till you land.

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Old 01-29-2013, 12:58 PM
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It is only controlling the nose stering. I have never had any issues with this. Is does not matter airborne. Just make sure it is working in the correct direction and take off. No worries!!!!
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Old 01-29-2013, 01:33 PM
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Default RE: Gyros 'N jets

Sailing1, you can run more than one gyro in the model. No worries there. Both of my latest jets have 3 gyro's in place, one for elevator, rudder, and ailerons. Makes teh jet just grove like no other!!
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Old 01-30-2013, 01:50 AM
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Default RE: Gyros 'N jets

Anyone tried the new Futabe 431 gyros? at 80 bucks each they're pretty reasonable...
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Old 01-30-2013, 04:11 AM
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: John Redman

Both of my latest jets have 3 gyro's in place, one for elevator, rudder, and ailerons. Makes teh jet just grove like no other!!
Hi John,

Could you please elaborate on the systems you are using on your jets as i was thinking of getting into this setup on my large F-15E mainly for more scale flying.
Thanks in advance

Regards,
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Old 01-30-2013, 08:15 AM
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Good call Rush! Tower Hobbies has both the 430 and 431 listed and available for the same price. Don't know what the diff is...
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Old 01-30-2013, 10:16 AM
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Default RE: Gyros 'N jets

I think the 430,431 gyros are just upgrades of their old 350,351,352 series.  I think the 431 is the 351 upgrade which allows for two aileron servos or rudder/steering combinations.  Can also be used for delta configurations.  

havnt seen any reports on their use...  though but i wouldnt expect any problems with Futaba.  

I have used the 351 on two jet (rate mode only) and i like them.  The 431 shouldn't disappoint....  
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