whitcombe

I agree with you totally MSSA, as a chief examiner I would prefer to see it as demonstration of a pilots competency to operate a turbine powered aircraft in a safe and professional manner. I would prefer to see a pilot fly safe, perhaps boring, scale circuits but operate the aircraft in the air and on the ground in a safe and routine manner.

Tim

[email protected]

I for one see the BMFA achievement scheme as an "achievement" not an exam to pass or fail but to improve my ability and yes show others I have achieved a lever of ability that can be measured.
I would like to offer up my services as guinea pig to be "tested" by any examiner with the view of achieving the Jet C cert on the day or later when the test is finalized. I would be available for the two southern most locations if there is an invite for me.
I have a couple of scale jets but would bring my Boomerang Torus for this task if required.

Please do let me know if I would be useful on either of the southern dates.

Paul Smith

eastern

Having had a lot of time spare recently I have read through this thread with interest. As I am lucky enough, at present anyway, to have an ideal Jet flying site right on my doorstep I have managed to get in a lot of flying over the past few years. During this time we have had a number of flyers from other clubs visit our club to fly jets and of course the subject of testing inevitably comes up. Up unitl last year our club was affialiated to the SAA, we have since left but that is a different story, where a silver was mandatory to fly at public events other than club flying days. A number of very competent flyers told me that they had not done a silver due to the fact it was a schedule, so instead they had done the BMFA B which at the time was just a requirement to perform certain manouveres. I always thought that the SAA & BMFA test did not suit the flying of turbine powered aircraft, you can not compare flying an Acrowot @ 60 mph to flying a complex jet at upwards of 160 mph. So we all agreed that there must be a totally different test for jet flying and that is at all levels, A B & C. I wont go into what each test must include but we all know that landing a jet is in no way comparable to an ic powered aircraft. The other problem I have seen is how do you allow "Rodney ramjet" who has just passed his B with a boomerang and then fronts up at the next big flying event with his new Hawk/F-16 sport jet and wants to fly it. Passing any test is no ticket to say you are a hot shot flyer, all it means is that all those hours of practice have culminated in you flying a B at a field with no one other than a handfull of other guys watching you, now your wanting to fly with two or three other pilots who are probably not relishing the thought of trying to keep out of your way for 6-7 minutes. As another contributor has said there is a lot of BS spoken and not much flying done so lets not get bogged down in talking about it but instead put in sensible well thought out plans to keep this hobby safe and enjoyable.

Dizz

A very successful day at Merryfield today introducing the Jet C test to examiners and demonstration of the manoeuvres (massive thanks to Steve for flying for an audience hell-bent on criticism!) . Some debate on tweaks to the schedule which will be incorporated in the next few day, but in general it works. After the formal standardisation bit there was time for some jet flying and the afternoon finished with 9 Achievement Scheme Jet C certificates being awarded, so well done and big congratulations to all those candidates.

Dizz

Jamie was awarded the first Certificate, closely followed by Steve.
Then John, Geoff, Tim, Roger, Steve, WIll and finally Martin at 19.50 with the last flight of the day.

CJ2002

All good positive feedback so far Dizz...nice one to Duncan and you for progressing this in a sensible direction.

Apologies for not being there...post CJ clean-up and fatigue put paid to that!

Cheers,

Dick

Dizz

Posted in error

Dizz

Credit to Duncan really, all I did was help with M'F. There were lots of other people yesterday who contributed to the success as well: ie Roger, Steve, Geoff, Jan and everyone else who turned up!

3dean

guys
when can we see the finished c cert info

Geoff White

Dean,

The test is documented here - [link=http://www.bmfa.org/achievement/files/2013/C(GT)-2013.pdf]Jet C[/link]

Based on the feedback from yesterday there are a few minor detail changes but the manouvres are exactly as documented in the PDF.

Alex48

Hi guys, I'm sure it's been mentioned but can the test be completed in two flights due fuel load. I only own one jet and that's scale but it would cope well with the routine just not the length of time required and the extra fuel burn when dirty etc...

Cheers, Alex

P.s. any examiners near the Huntingdon area or at Wyton next month?

BaldEagel

Alex 48

Don't go all American on us and not check out the post just before yours have a look on the Jet C certificate on post 98.

Mike

Geoff White

Hi Alex,

Actually, one of the major discussion points yesterday was that the order of the original schedule i.e compulsary, followed by optional and finally landing, was designed so that after the compulsary manouvres you can land and refuel. That is why if you look at the end of the compulsary stuff there is the dirty pass and overshoot as it is assumed the model will be light and ready to land.

A few of us, including me said we carry so much fuel, we would like to do it all in one flight. The other issue is if you do it in the original order, and in one flight, you have to retract the UC multiple times which is not ideal for some models. After a considerable amount of discussion the BMFA examiners agreed to change the order so that all the dirty/slow stuff is at the end.

This option worked really well and I believe the BMFA guys are going to to clarify you can do the order as per the current, with a landing, or alternatively do it all in one flight but move the slow/dirty stuff to the end.

While we are tallking about revisions, the other change is that some of the heights quoted need revising as they are too low.

Keep any eye on the BMFA website as I assume any update(s) will be posted there.

Geoff.

BTW A disclaimer - I am not in any way a representative of the BMFA so anything I say is just my opinion and experience.

siclick33

Whilst I know that revisions will always take place, should these trial runs and discussions not have happened before the scheme was introduced?

How can 9 people already have the certifcate whilst the 'final' version of the initial schedule is still being amended?

Alex48

Thanks Geoff, Yes that makes more sense although I'd be happy doing the slow stuff straight after Takeoff then it saves a gear extension. Pleased I can get it done in two flights though, perhaps this is a good excuse to buy another model only trouble is I'm too much of a tight *ss

I'll read that PDF more closely .

Cheers, Alex

Alex48

Hi Mike,

Ahhhh just found it one of the last paragraphs, Ill do better next time

Cheers

rfbenn

Geoff I,m glad you persuaded the BMFA team that the sequence should be tweaked a bit as there was a bit of reluctance to do so when it was mentioned at the Long Marston day. Still that's what these days are for , to try and iron out any issues.

Rob

alasdair

I agree. The low level circuit at "not above 40 feet" is impractical at both my club sites. It is fine if you fly from an unobstructed airfield as many jet fliers do, but whenflying over undulating terrain, with maturetrees scattered around, a less rigid attitude is required.

Pat Barnes

Siclick - they did happen exactly as you described. The morning was spent discussing the order of events and demo flying some of the manoeuvres. Once the team of examiners were happy with what they wanted to achieve, they did the tests in the afternoon. There were loads of people flying all day, practicing the routines and then once happy, those who wanted to take the test did exactly that.

The 'final' version of the schedule or the requirements of the test did not change - merely the order of some manoeuvres. At the end of the day, the BMFA examiners had carried out tests on any pilot who wished to attempt the test, and 9 guys were successful. As an impartial observer, I was impressed with the consistency of flying done in all the tests I saw, the ground exam was thorough and the C certificates were well deserved.